Z06 vs. Zr1 vs. Camaro ZL1 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

87irocz350 · 04-24-2002, 09:17 PM

I would want to know whats faster? the Zo6 or the Zr1.
I know the z06 has more HP. But doesnt the zr1 top out at a higher speed. And what do you guys think either one would do against the Prototype Camaro zL1. Its a new camaro with a Ls1 bored out to a 427 small block. Ya know sort of like the old Zl1s with the 427, just a small block version this time.
What do ya think?

Tom84L69 · 04-24-2002, 09:30 PM

the 2002 Z06 and ZR1 both have 405 hp(eralier ZR1s had 375) the Z06 is faster for sure, it's lighter, makes more low end torque and it probably has more optimal gearing.

Isn't chevy's latest ZL1 camaro an LS6 from the Z06? I'm positive that it is. I bet the ZL1 would be a little slower than a Z06 because of weight.

CobraKiller · 04-24-2002, 10:39 PM

ZL1 slower? Doesn't the ZL1 prototype with the all aluminum small block run 9's? How is that slower than a Z06?

super83Z · 04-24-2002, 10:44 PM

I thgought the new ZL1 had a LS1 302 in it. And the Special edition T/A had like a 427 and made like 600hp or somethign up that high.

Mark A Shields · 04-24-2002, 10:48 PM

I have a video of the ZL1 running 9.58 or so. That sucker hooks with no spinning or wheelie bars.

RMK · 04-24-2002, 11:08 PM

Marks right, I have the same video. It's amazing.

I have a spec sheet for the car in front of me.

GM actually farted abut with prototypes with the ZL1 lable throuth the early 4th gen days. It was suposidly the early renditions that lead them to release a 96 SS.

They showed the car at SEMA 1999. Here's what the spec sheet I got hold of has to say about it.

At the heart of a laundry list of updated ZL1 modifications is the powerplant: an 8.4-liter aluminum-block pushrod V8 making a foot-stomping 770 horsepower at 6900 rpm and a raucous 683 lb.-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. Transfer of power comes via a five-speed manual transmission and a three-disc hydraulic clutch setup. The myriad performance add-ons includes everything from a Hamburger Hi-Torque starter and a Crower forged steel crankshaft with 4.5-inch stroke, to a Dart intake manifold reworked for fuel injection with a K&N air filter and Exhaust Tech dual 3.5-inch inlet and outlet mufflers. And that’s only scratching the surface. There is also a host of GM OEM parts off of the various F-bodies of the past few years.
The chassis has been appropriately reinforced and stiffened to better handle the onslaught of speed and power. The front suspension uses spindles modified for Brembo four-piston caliper stopping power, with Koni shocks and 540 lb/inch springs. At the rear, lower control arms have been reworked to house the 18-inch wheels shod with Goodyear Z-rated performance Eagle F-1 tires. Modified stabilizer bars live at both front and rear.

The video really is amazing. You have to see it to believe it. And what's even more amazing is that it was a manufacturer that built the thing, not a speed shop.

Here's the rest of the info I have managed to find out about the car.

CONFIGURATION
Front-engine/rear-wheel drive
101.1 in wheelbase
Track: 62.3 front/ 63 rear
Weight: 3390 lbs. (dry): 1865 lbs. front (55%) 1525 lbs. rear (45%)

DRIVETRAIN

Aluminum V8 pushrod engine
Three-disc hydraulic clutch
5-speed manual transmission
Solid rear axle
1-piece Prop Shaft

CHASSIS

Front suspension: independent coil-over-shock SLA
Rear suspension: three-link coil spring with torque arm
4-wheel disc brakes

ENGINE SUMMARY

DISPLACEMENT:

572 cu.in. (8.4L)
BORE: 4.5 in. (114.3 mm)
STROKE: 4.5 in. (114.3 mm)
COMPRESSION RATIO: 13.8:1
PEAK TORQUE: 683 @ 5200
PEAK POWER: 770 @ 6900 (through complete exhaust system)

ENGINE SHORT BLOCK
DONOVAN aluminum cylinder block (#500), with milled head surfaces
CROWER forged steel crankshaft, 4.5in stroke, internally balanced, (#S-95137)
VIBRATECH 61/4" Torsional damper, neutral balanced (#713282-000)
CROWER forged steel connecting rods, 6.535in C-C, (#F91092-B)
FEDERAL MOGUL main bearings, chamfered for crank fillet, (#8-7200 CH-STD)
FEL PRO rear main oil seal
JE forged, domed pistons, (#111595)
JE piston pins, .990 x 2.930 double spirolocks
SPEED PRO 1 1/16" moly top, 1/16" cast 2nd, 3/16" chrome faced oil ring set, (#R-10317+035)
CLOYES roller timing chain/sprocket set, (#9-3100)
FEL PRO front cover gasket
TITAN oil pump & pickup
Balanced & fitted assembly
Fabricated aluminum 8 qt. oil pan with baffling and trap doors

CYLINDER HEADS
DART Pro-1 bowl ported and gasket matched
Valves stainless FERREA ex. 1,880 dia, titanium DELL WEST int. 2.300
PSI springs (#CT-1046)
Titanium COMP CAMS (#735-16)
FEL PRO head gaskets (#FP-1093)
COMP CAMS valve locks + .050"
Combustion chambers relieved, polished & matched to 4.5" bore

VALVE TRAIN
LUNATI camshaft (#RRB-280-284)
Intake: 280 degrees duration x .722" lift
Exhaust: 284 degrees duration x .722 lift
112 degrees lobe centers
ISKYROLLER lifters (202.96RHC)
CRANE stud girdle (#13602-1)
DIAMOND RACING rocker arms studs
MANLEY push rod guide plates, (#42164)

INDUCTION
DART intake manifold reworked for fuel injection application
FEL PRO GASKETS, (#FP-1275-5)
Special machined 4-bore 2" throttle body with idle air by-pass
K&N air filter (#E-1963)

EXHAUST
Fabricated stainless steel tubular four into one headers, 2 _" runners
FEL PRO exhaust header gaskets, (#1412)
Fabricated dual 3 _" exhaust system complete to rear bumper with 2 _" balance tube
EXHAUST TECH dual 3 _" inlet and outlet mufflers

FUEL SYSTEM
BOSCH 67 lbs/hr port fuel injectors. Fabricated fuel rail assembly
SX PERFORMANCE fuel pressure regulator- set to 45 PSI static fuel pressure, (#15402)
SX PERFORMANCE fuel pump (#18201) rated for 80 gal/hr+
SX PERFORMANCE high flow filter, (#41002)
AEROQUIP- 8 "pushlok" feed hose and fittings

IGNITION
MSD COMPENENTS
Crank trigger (#8620)
Cam sensor
Control unit (#6420)
Coil (#8202)
Dist. Hold Down (#8110)
Distributer (#2340)
CHAMPION C63-7C spark plugs, gapped @ .035"
MAGNECOR 10mm spark plug wires, custom fit, (#R-230)

ENGINE MANAGEMENT

FEL PRO PERFORMANCE, electronic SEFI with individual cyl control
Input sensors: Coolant temperature, manifold air temperature, throttle position, manifold pressure, exhaust O2, engine speed, camshaft position

Controlled outputs: fuel injectors (8), ignition timing,
idle speed control motor

COOLING SYSTEMS

GM-SPO aluminum engine water pump with _ block spacers, (#3975928)
No thermostat
GRIFFIN aluminum crossflow radiator, 27in x 17in x 4in core
Dual 15in electric cooling fans
Special machined oil cooler block adapter
LONG oil cooler plumbed with #12 and hose and fitting

ENGINE ACCESSORIES
HAMBURGER hi-torque starter with solenoid rotated 180 degrees for header clearance, (#5005)
GM ’95 F-Car 124 amp alternator
GM ’94 F-Car power steering pump and remote fluid reservoir
Fabricated accessory drive mounting brackets
GM crankshaft pulley, (#25525204) with machined spacer
FORD water pump pulley, (#E75E-8509-CA95 F-Car)
Fabricated power steering pump pulley, back driven
Fabricated fixed idler and adjustable tensioner pulley assembly
GOODYEAR 6-rib POLY VEE drive belt, (#4060600)

DRIVELINE SUMMARY

ENGINE MOUNTING

GM ’94 F-car front motor mounts, bosses welded to cylinder block for attachment, urethane filled production isolaters
Fabricated rear transmission mount/crossmember with torque arm attachment and polyurethane mount

CLUTCH

McLEOD steel-faced, aluminum flywheel
McLEOD triple-disc and pressure plate, (#651003-5)
McLEOD annular hydraulic release bearing, (#1400)
TILTON master cylinder and remote reservoir

TRANSMISSION

QUARTER MASTER aluminum bell housing (#110104)
Special-design "G" FORCE built 5-speed with "H" pattern race shifter
Ratios: 2.860, 1.936, 1.552, 1.295, 1.000

REAR AXLE

DANA 60 center housing, modified for torque arm attachment; tubes installed and modified to accept original production spring, shock absorber and lower control arm brackets and brake caliper brackets
3.54:1 final drive ratio

DANA "Torque-Lock" 4-pinion differential
STRANGE ENGINEERING axle shafts and yoke; 61.625" flange/flange

DRIVESHAFT

MARK WILLIAMS ENGINEERING, 45.256" center-center length, 3.5in O.D. x .095 in wall steel tube
STRANGE ENGINEERING front yoke to match transmission
DANA-SPICER 1350 series u joints

CHASSIS SUMMARY

STRUCTURE

Reinforced lower control arms

2 _" x 1 _" rectangular steel tubing connecting rear
lower control arm mounts to front frame rails
New, fabricated panhand bar brace and trunkwell
for exhaust/muffler clearance

WHEELS/TIRES

Front:
FISKE 10" x 18" (#851585) with neg. 2" offset
GOODYEAR EAGLE F-1 FIORANO P-335/30 ZR-18
Rear:
FISKE 12.5’ x 18 (#854580) with neg. 3/16" offset
GOODYEAR EAGLE F-1 FIORANO P-265/40 ZR-18

STEERING

GM ’94 F-Car steering rack
GM ’94 F-Car intermediate shaft
GM ’94 F-Car steering column

FRONT SUSPENSION

GM ’93 F-Car spindles modified for BREMBO calipers
F-Car upper and lower control arms with
WHEEL TO WHEEL bolt and poly blushing package
540lb/in springs
KONI shocks (#8242.1005)
Special WHEEL TO WHEEL stabilizer bar race package
(38.5 x 1.250 x .250)

REAR SUSPENSION

GM ’94 F-Car lower control arms reworked for tire clearance and WHEEL TO WHEEL bracket and link package
Production panhard bar with WHEEL TO WHEEL poly blushing
Fabricated torque arm attachment

BRAKES

GM ’93 F-Car master cylinder assembly with willwood adjustable proportioning valve modified viper front rotors, 33mm dia. 32mm thick (#4642122)
BREMBO F040 four piston front calipers with paget blue compound pads (#305120)
Production F-Car rear calipers and pads and 11.5 in. rotors
Stainless reinforced Teflon brake hoses front, production rear

Hope this clears up a few things.

Rob

RMK · 04-24-2002, 11:12 PM

Also, notice the flared wheel arches to accomodate the larger tires.

And to answer your question. I believe the ZL1 will beat both the ZR1 and the Z06 without breaking a sweat.

Rob

super83Z · 04-24-2002, 11:15 PM

Could any of you guys send me that video? That sounds awesome.

RMK · 04-24-2002, 11:22 PM

Try here. Not sure if it's still working though.

http://www.gotspanked.com/video/zl1_run.mpeg

super83Z · 04-24-2002, 11:35 PM

Wow that car is nasty

RMK · 04-24-2002, 11:38 PM

Told ya!

HrdRockA4305 · 04-25-2002, 12:09 AM

"I have a video of the ZL1 running 9.58 or so. That sucker hooks with no spinning or wheelie bars"

I've got that too. Its sweet. So is the car!! Think what that thing'd do if you strapped a 200 shot of bottle on it! (Not like it needs it, I'm just being theoretical)

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-25-2002, 05:41 AM

sadly there is some confusion here

i believe the person that started the post was talking about the NEW ZL1 camaro, which isnt a ZL1 AT ALL

it has a aluminum smallblock

i always thought what the ZL1 was know for was being an aluminum big block

seems to me some ***** at chevy, who decided to call this one a ZL1, gone done fu(ked it all up

xxwarrior36xx · 04-25-2002, 07:34 AM

Yes that ois a nasty car and will blow away the other two. Tom84L69 was referring to the most recent one GM made it mas in last months super chevy I believe. It was a Ls6 in it. The one you guys are refering to was the older one. Yes that will KILL those other two cars.

RMK · 04-25-2002, 10:52 AM

Ah, didn't realize there was a newer LS6 version out. Anyone have the article they can share with us?

lankchevy_350 · 04-25-2002, 02:03 PM

im an idot so bear with me please. is this like a prototype camaro in liek 2004 or something? before this thread i had never heard of it before. adn i dotn realy care if it has a small or big block its still one bad ace car!

kolby

87irocz350 · 04-25-2002, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lankchevy_350
im an idot so bear with me please. is this like a prototype camaro in liek 2004 or something? before this thread i had never heard of it before. adn i dotn realy care if it has a small or big block its still one bad ace car!

kolby

The new zL1 is in almost any super chevy
or chevy high performance mag.

It think it would run pretty close with the Zr1 Z06.

Tom84L69 · 04-25-2002, 08:20 PM

yep i was talkin about the LATEST ZL1, it does have an LS6 from the Z06. No doubt the old donovan aluminaum 572 big block car pictured above would rape most anything!!!

lankchevy_350 · 04-25-2002, 08:46 PM

thanks but u still didnt anser my question of are they supposed to be made in 2004 or what? i would look in my super chevys and chevy hi proformance mags but they are all in my locker at school(i get bored at school) and im not goign to school tommarow(what can i say spoonbill are running and gotta test out my new bowfishing setup on gatoe gar whiile tehy are spawning

) so it would be monday so i would appreiate and anser.

kolby

.....a good friend will bail u out of jail, but a best friend will be setting next to u in the cell saying that was freakin awesome!

HrdRockA4305 · 04-26-2002, 12:43 AM

"yep i was talkin about the LATEST ZL1, it does have an LS6 from the Z06"

Huh I guess I missed that one. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to crawl out of my cave and look at a magazine or motor trend online once in a while.

87irocz350 · 04-26-2002, 07:57 AM

It was set for 2004-5. But Chevy still hasnt come out and say if they will ever bring back the F-body.
My guess is it will never be built.
I think they said it ran like a mid 12. On street tires.

avro206 · 04-27-2002, 01:18 PM

Why do people get so upset when GM reuses RPOs?

"seems to me some ***** at chevy, who decided to call this one a ZL1, gone done fu(ked it all up"

I figure as long as it's highperformance it's allright. LS1 RPO was a 455HO Pontiac from 71-72
(if I'm not mistaken) and LS6 was originally the RPO for the 450hp 454 Chevelles.

But if they ever start having a Corvette Z24, then I'd be pissed!

If your talking about the LS6 ZL1 Camaro- I think it might be able to take the ZR1.

But the ZR1 will win hands down top speed against the other 2

Black 91 Z28 · 04-28-2002, 08:14 PM

Figured yall would like to see this.

http://www.gmmginc.net/html/zl1_camaro.html

David

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-28-2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 871LEIroc
Why do people get so upset when GM reuses RPOs?

"seems to me some ***** at chevy, who decided to call this one a ZL1, gone done fu(ked it all up"

I figure as long as it's highperformance it's allright. LS1 RPO was a 455HO Pontiac from 71-72
(if I'm not mistaken) and LS6 was originally the RPO for the 450hp 454 Chevelles.

But if they ever start having a Corvette Z24, then I'd be pissed!

If your talking about the LS6 ZL1 Camaro- I think it might be able to take the ZR1.

But the ZR1 will win hands down top speed against the other 2

BECAUSE THE REAL ZL1 IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF 1969 CHEVROLET PERFORMANCE

ONLY 2 ZL1 VETTES WERE MADE

AND SOMEHTING LIKE 50 ZL1 CAMAROS

THEY WERE FACTORY 11 SECOND CARS

YOU DONT CALL A V6 AN L98, DO YOU?

THEN WHY CALL A SMALL BLOCK A ZL1?

CASE CLOSED

super83Z · 04-28-2002, 08:52 PM

becuase times have changed. I don't care what its called as long as it comes back in a year and is rear-wheel drive V-8 bearing the Camaro name.

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-28-2002, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by super83Z
becuase times have changed.

yes sadly they have, and not for the better

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-28-2002, 09:00 PM

i think its cool that they re-used LT1 again

because they did that in the correct context

super83Z · 04-28-2002, 09:05 PM

I definately agree that they have not changed for the better. What I hate to see is all the resentment for 4th gens on this site sometimes. When in all honesty they are the ones that brought real performance back to the Camaro and Firebird name. And the LS1 is incredible. Ls1 cars can run with the Big-block cars of the old days. I used to hate 4th gens too. But then I realized that them along with a few others represent what is left of the old muscle cars.

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-28-2002, 09:32 PM

hey man, no resentment for 4th gens from me

check out the sig

bigals87z28 · 04-28-2002, 10:44 PM

hey gm made 3 zl-1's one was in 69 that had an all aluminum big block 427.... then 5 years ago or something chevy made a prototype zl-1 with a huge block... someone said a 572! it raced a super mustang... the stang had a 10.0 Lt engine.... if u go the svt site at ford .com you can see the car im talkin about... car and driver did a report on it.... on the front it said like "1625hp shoot out" go to supercars.net and they have that zl-1 there and then recently Super Chevy had a ZL-1 with a ls-6 set up in it... had the whole drivetrain and rims.... the writter of the story said that it was better then a regular Z28 or SS.... its hp is 400 and 410ft/lbs. and im just sad that the camaro is leaving... but happy because when it comes back out (and it will) ill be out of college and will hopefully be able to pick one up... ill see you guys at the dealerships!!! peace

avro206 · 04-28-2002, 11:09 PM

Correct context eh? Sounds just like the LS6, LS1
ect and all those others I was talking about.

Why aren't you upset about there uses?? Why just the ZL1???

Factoy 11 sec ZL1 eh? Best I've heard of is like a 13.12.

Add some slicks, 4.56s, supertune and no exhaust- then sure 11 sec is do-able. But then hey an LS1-LS6 (the new small block ones I mean) could do that too.

Read what I said- I didn't say call L98 a V6-
I said as long as they're high performance- reuse RPOs

Hey I'm against reusing a high performance RPO from the old days on a V6 or 4cly- but if it's a kick-*** V8, why not? THey're paying homage to the original with something worthy- that also breings regognition to the original.

Oh and it's 69 Camaros

RB's84camaroF-41 · 04-29-2002, 01:19 AM

13.12 on bias ply stock 33 year old tires

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-29-2002, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 871LEIroc
Correct context eh? Sounds just like the LS6, LS1
ect and all those others I was talking about.

Why aren't you upset about there uses?? Why just the ZL1???

Factoy 11 sec ZL1 eh? Best I've heard of is like a 13.12.

Add some slicks, 4.56s, supertune and no exhaust- then sure 11 sec is do-able. But then hey an LS1-LS6 (the new small block ones I mean) could do that too.

Read what I said- I didn't say call L98 a V6-
I said as long as they're high performance- reuse RPOs

Hey I'm against reusing a high performance RPO from the old days on a V6 or 4cly- but if it's a kick-*** V8, why not? THey're paying homage to the original with something worthy- that also breings regognition to the original.

Oh and it's 69 Camaros

ok, lets put this into terms you might be able to understand

when you build an exclusive, powerful car, you have something that is a classic

those classics are know for what made them classic

in this case an ALUMNIUM BIG BLOCK 427 made the ZL1 classic

IN MY OPINION, when you go to replicate a vintage classic, you should do so in the correct contexts

in reality, thats just as bad as me sticking IROC decals on my Z28

i never said that the car wasnt POWERFUL, thats not my beef with it

and just for you newfound knowledge, LS1 was never used before

although LS6 has been

how would YOU like it if they called the 2005 V6 camaro a 1LE

that would kinda suck, wouldnt it

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-29-2002, 05:51 AM

and as for being 11 second cars.........i found that information in TWO chevy books that i have

bigals87z28 · 04-29-2002, 07:41 PM

hey chevy wasnt the only one to make this all aluminum 427.... im doing a report for my english class on the camaro.... its due tommorrow.... i have all the info right here.... baldwin motion made one, yenko, nickey,berger (who makes a 440hp ls-1 camaro), and dana.... its says that the baldwin motion phase III was the fastest with a guarantee that it would do the 1/4 in 11.5 at 120mph.... 425hp,427ci L-72 m-22 close ration muncie trans, posi rear, heavy suspension, wide oval tires, m/p mod. ignition, dyno tuning, and Baldwin-Motion striping and it came with the most awsome thing you could do for appearance... had side pipes!! that makes the car.... im actualy building a model of the baldwin for presentation..... yea i went all out on this..... somone is gettin an A+!!!!! if anyone else needs anymore info on the history.... i will gladly tell you.... just email me.... thanks...peace

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 04-29-2002, 08:02 PM

i believe those were IRON blocks

i believe chevy made the only aluminum 427

Bird_of_Prey · 04-29-2002, 09:06 PM

didn't chevy loose oil pressure when making right hand turns in that car in car 'n driver.. and didn't ford blow a pushrod through the block in the drag race segment of that shootout..?
and didn't chevy change the motor overnight into a race engine?
i dunno.. that artical was a while back with some "fantasy" cars..
and in the whole Zl1 thing.. well.. a ZL1 is a 427 aluminum big block, should be still..
now, a LT1 was a 350.. so is the new LT1.. so that's cool and all..
neways.