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Actually the guys who I run with run stock internals, 306s at the most and no compression bumps (plus in the rules 11.0:1 is not possible) and run 12.2-12.4 at 108-109. And these cars are driven to the track on the ET Streets!!!
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__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
12-19-01
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Sorry bud, hate to break it to you, but these guys are running upwards of 11:1. You think they're making ~ 380 hp out of what would be, at best, a 300 hp combination on a stock shortblock without some tricks up their sleeves?
Quote:
Cubic Inches – limited to 311 CID for 5.0L blocks and 289 CID for 4.6L blocks. The cubic inch policy is one of zero tolerance, all tolerance must be accounted for by the engine builder and racer.
Quote:
Heads Gaskets & Quench Area – Total "quench" dimension (distance between cylinder head and piston) minimum is .035", combining piston deck and head gasket thickness. Pistons with "zero deck" or below must use a .035" or thicker head gasket. Pistons out of the deck surface must make up the difference with a thicker head gasket, resulting in the minimum .035" quench distance. Any type head gasket permitted.
Quote:
Milling – Milling is permitted. See Combustion Chamber Volume.
Quote:
Combustion Chamber Volume – minimum combustion chamber volume is 58cc for 302W-based heads, 54cc for 96-98 4.6 2V heads, 49cc for 99 and newer 4.6 2V heads, and 49cc for 4.6 4V based heads.
All the guys I run with have done the math, and at our cookout were fighting between 10.5:1 and 10:1, but both agreed that no way 11:1 is possible. They were even stretching for 10.5:1, and these guys build their cars for the class, so I go with them! And the guys running 11.8s do this, not the guys running 12.3-12.5!
And if you look at what I was originally saying, I know the 4.6s are faster, they should be, but they are not as much faster than a newer LS1 compared to an older L98!!! Boy look how things get dragged out into completely different topics! Look at this two Mustang guys fighting, what a bad example we are setting here!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
He runs at Lebanon Valley in NY...about 2 1/2 hours south of me. Most of the guys are not running in the mid 12's though from what I've seen but most are in the mid-high 13 area...from looking at the times at the site. I am impressed with the mid and high 12's but my car is FULL weight..as in right now 3440 lbs and runs 13.8's with just Nitto's and I'm still spinning. I would be right in the middle of the pack or better with my boat..especially since the Valley hooks way better than Napierville. Hell..with a short belt and some ET Streets I'd be in the mid or low 13's! If you upped the compression, put a higher flowing intake,TB,MAF,injectors,suspension,gears,etc on a new SOHC GT it would be in the 12's too. PLUS..these cars alos have wight taken out. How many cars that run there weigh as much as me? Maybe a new GT. Like I already said a guy at my track ran a 13.3 with just a few bolts ons on a FULL weight GT with all stock suspension. It can be done..the SOHC's are fast...just because it doesn't happen all the time means nothing. How long have the 5.0's been out? Since 86 for EFi...thats 17 YEARS! The SOHC's have only been in the Stangs since 96... 7 years. When the 5.0 1st came out they didn't even make a 1/4 of what they do now. Give the SOHC time for it's aftermarket to increase and more research and you'll see the times drop. Thats just what I think...
What you don't realize is that they have to weigh 3300 and most of the mid 12s guys, like Dennis, Stan, and Darrell, all weigh quite a bit over 3300, and more like 3400. And Lebanon Does not hook very well at all. You are right, but half of us run low 13s to mid 12s, and if you look at Darrell at any event last year, and at the begining of 2002, he had a 100% stock motor as well! He was running high 12s without ever touching the motor, and with a Cobra intake (did nothing) 65 Tbody, mass air, and injectors he was running 12.5-12.7 all the time! Dennis has a 306 w/ GT-40s, Cobra intake, Tbody, mass air, injectors and such and has gone as quick as 12.0 and high 10s on a 150 shot! Stan has gone 12.4s with a similar set-up on Drag Radials, and R.B. has an 85 motor with a low rise intake, 600 carb, and exhaust (stock E5s) running low 13s and at Tasca day he went 12.8s at 105! The only 1999 and newer cars were, Troy, Mike, and one other guy (not a regular) and they all went 13.8 or slower. I think you would be surprised at what you run at Lebanon. Any track nearby for us (epping, and Englishtown are the closest) is at least .2-.3 better!
To add, those mid to high 13 cars are not regulars. The regulars are the mid to low 13s and the 12 second cars! Currently there are 11 of us in the points race!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
Well everybody that I know that has raced there has gotten better times than at Napierville...we have an all new concrete launch pad this year. It took forever to get rubber down and there's still not much. They don't prep the best either. I've yet to have a night when I've ran my car that they put traction compund down...that stuff makes a HUGE difference! Maybe next year I'll venture down..but I'm trying trying to find a cheap 5.0 to turn into my track/driver car since I have really low miles on my mint GT and I don't like to beat on it. One thing we do have up here is cold air...that helps out as far as power.. but hurts traction. I may run this weekend..one last time.
That is funny, because we are actually selling a 1987 GT right now, for 2000. We just put my AOD in it, but if you want to build a track car it is a good starting place! PM if you are interested, I have pics and info!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
Like to get an LX but send some pics. I'm looking more for a 5spd car also since I want the best bang for the $$. I dropped from a 14.84 to a 13.82 with the 5spd swap in my car. Send pics and info though..never know. I once bought a 88LX 5.0 for $500...from the 2nd owner. It was rusty but 100% stock...and ran awesome once I did a tune up. Best deal I've ever got. I ended up needing $$ so I sold it for $1200...still pissed at myself. I'll have to scan some pics of it. I beat alot of cars with it..had to be a low-mid 14 car stock..
Originally posted by Nic Sure, let's port the heads and put some money into a couple cams. A 5.0 isn't going to run 11's n/a on the stock untouched heads or cam you know
First to monkie, I didn't nor would I say anything is impossible when it comes to cars and performance. Eventually the 11 second mark will be breached, but don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about. The reason I asked Nic, not you, to show me an SN95 GT with a SOHC 4.6 running 11s is because they don't exist. That is unless something has changed in the last couple of months.
Nic, you may be right, I'm not sure if any untouched E7s have gone into the 11s or not, but to my knowledge not even any ported SOHC 4.6s are in the 11s. Last I checked, a couple of months ago, they were moving down on them though.
I cant answer? Why I know of some 11 secs N/A sohc Fords. Hell you look at the S281E and right there untouched is one. Put you a bullet upper intake, ported lower intake, shaved heads, ported and polished heads, custom cams, long tubes, exhaust, intake, blah, blah, blah and there you have it. 11 sec sohc N/A. :lala:
Oh, my bad, I was supposed to assume you were responding to someone else after you quoted me?
And I didn't want to get into a damned flame war with anyone about it which is why I responded to Nic, knowing that he is pretty mature and doesn't have anything to prove by making **** up. Also, you're full of **** about the S281E. You may be thinking of the Supercharged S281, but that would kinda take you out of the context of my N/A statement.
You're also full of **** about the stangs you claim to know of. Now, stop talking because as you said, "you don't know what you're talking about."
Okay I will explain a little rust. We are talking some surface rust where a 14 year old car would have surface rust! It is solid meaning the frame is good, there is no rot, and when driven the car doesn't creek and rattle!
It is hard holding a mature conversation with Monkie, take mine and many others words for it!!!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
The S281E is a supercharged 4.6 SOHC. It has the twin screw SC as opposed to the Roots that the regular S281 has. Again..that's a SC'ed car...not a NA car. I do think that the SOHC is more refined from the factory as opposed to the 5.0 . Are the really no 11 second NA 4.6 SOHC's? I thought for sure I've seen some in the mags before...could be wrong though..
first, underline the supercharged part, then refer back to my statement about N/A. You're right, I assumed you were referring to the n/a saleen since obviously pointing out that a supercharged mustang can run 11s has nothing to do with what I posted. 2nd, highlight the 12.94, and yes, I've read that it can do 11s with slicks, but that wouldn't be untouched.
Originally posted by CHEVY_EATER The S281E is a supercharged 4.6 SOHC. It has the twin screw SC as opposed to the Roots that the regular S281 has. Again..that's a SC'ed car...not a NA car. I do think that the SOHC is more refined from the factory as opposed to the 5.0 . Are the really no 11 second NA 4.6 SOHC's? I thought for sure I've seen some in the mags before...could be wrong though..
Let me dig up an old thread of mine from corral to reference you to.......
They talk like they were on the brink of breaking 11s with a SOHC 4.6, but I have searched to no avail several times since then for anyone who broke it.
Originally posted by Monkie Oh wait let me get this straight.......the S281E cant hit 11's "factory" but a LS1 SS can hit 12's with slicks and still be stock? :sillylol:
LS1's don't need slicks to hit 12's. Go read some sigs over at LS1.com. Almost every 6 speed owner over there that posts times has 12.8's to 12.9's even some of the auto's. And 12smustang was talking about a N/A 4.6..why are you talking about a supercharged saleen? two different animals if you ask me.
__________________ 1988 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z
305 TPI,A4,bolts ons,LT4 cam,etc..67k miles
2000 Grand Prix GTP Sedan
2005 Onyx Black Saturn VUE Redline
3.5 SOHC V-TEC 5 speed auto
Co-Founder/Administrator New England F-Body Association
Originally posted by CobraKiller LS1's don't need slicks to hit 12's. Go read some sigs over at LS1.com. Almost every 6 speed owner over there that posts times has 12.8's to 12.9's even some of the auto's. And 12smustang was talking about a N/A 4.6..why are you talking about a supercharged saleen? two different animals if you ask me.
Don't worry, bud, logical arguments need no longer apply here. I've got this one under wraps
When talking to Monkie logics go out the window! He only believes what he wants, and doesn't realize he is wrong more often than not!
Face it Monkie, LS1s have been faster than any N/A OHC Mustang in produsction, and you just can't handle that! And you are comparing the few LS1s at your track, while we look at every N/A SOHC Mustang in the world, ya that is fair!!!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
Face it Monkie, LS1s have been faster than any N/A OHC Mustang in produsction, and you just can't handle that! And you are comparing the few LS1s at your track, while we look at every N/A SOHC Mustang in the world, ya that is fair!!!
Ok.......I am no longer stock for stock. A stock LS1 will closely beat a stock twin turbo Supra. Give the Supra some mods and look out. I agree, the new LS1 will whip up on some stock 96-01 Cobra's (cept 2000). Now I whip up on stock LS1's. No biggie.
Originally posted by Monkie Ok.......I am no longer stock for stock. A stock LS1 will closely beat a stock twin turbo Supra. Give the Supra some mods and look out. I agree, the new LS1 will whip up on some stock 96-01 Cobra's (cept 2000). Now I whip up on stock LS1's. No biggie.
the LS1 was/is the ****. most any joe blow can get intake, exhaust and a 100/125 nitrous kit and be in the 11's. there is a guy at my track that has a stock shortblock with massive headwork (does his own), a large cam, 4500 stall, 4.11 gears, ET streets and other basic boltons running 10.7's. they definately put out some crazy times.
however, i am almost as sick of the LS1 hype as i am the 03' cobra hype. they are just cars with good amounts of factory horsepower, something that hasnt been around since the 60's/70's.
Originally posted by 5.0mustang Well if you want to ay non-stock, then you have to include non-stock LS1s running mid to low 12s with exhaust tires and gears!!!
It's not worth trying to convince him. He's goes from talking about supercharged saleen's to TT supras. Don't even bother
__________________ 1988 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z
305 TPI,A4,bolts ons,LT4 cam,etc..67k miles
2000 Grand Prix GTP Sedan
2005 Onyx Black Saturn VUE Redline
3.5 SOHC V-TEC 5 speed auto
Co-Founder/Administrator New England F-Body Association
Originally posted by Monkie Ok.......I am no longer stock for stock. A stock LS1 will closely beat a stock twin turbo Supra. Give the Supra some mods and look out. I agree, the new LS1 will whip up on some stock 96-01 Cobra's (cept 2000). Now I whip up on stock LS1's. No biggie.
Ok.......let's say a LS1 is no longer stock. Are you still going to whip up on them?
Then you throw a bottle BACK in the back of my trunk blah blah...
5.0mustang: well strap a rocket ship on the back of a LS1 then...
I'm glad he is making that I should be right with him with only 8psi. But the LS1 being the compression it is should not be blown if you ask me. And I'm sure your friend has forged.
Oh wow, so inorder to beat the LS1s you have to put on a blower and then when you get beat you add juice!!! And you are saying the LS1 will blow up. You BETTER run 10s with that combo, or you will get no respect here!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
Originally posted by unknown_host Translation : I am paying someone to do **** i should be doing myself.
You guys never cease to amaze me with some of the **** yall pull out of your asses. Ok yep Unknown I'm completely stupid and I should be installing a fuel pump, injectors, SCer, and 3 core intercooler, along with a dyno tune right in my car port. Dude STFU if you are gonna say something that dumb.
Quote:
Originally posted by 5.0mustang Oh wow, so inorder to beat the LS1s you have to put on a blower and then when you get beat you add juice!!! And you are saying the LS1 will blow up. You BETTER run 10s with that combo, or you will get no respect here!
And ****, have to run 10's to get respect HERE? ROFLMAO actually I don't even know of anyone in thirdgen that runs 10's that is even remotly close to being streetable. Some of you guys are dumb as hell. And no jack *** I don't have to get a SCer to be able to run with LS1's but when your stupid *** says something like "crying: well if you put a supercharger on a LS1...then you shift really fast...then its a good day. What you gonna do then huh!?" Lets see your stupid *** beat a stock LS1. Ha, yea didn't think so.
I don't need to supercharge my car and make fun of 3rd gens to feel good. Just face it, you HAVE to add forced induction to run with the LS1s, it's okay, we all understand! And my goal isn't to put as many different power adders on and make fun of people, my ultimate goal is to go low 12s with a 306, un-ported GT-40s and a few more bolt-ons! Have fun blowing your car up while the "slower guys" here have fun racing!
And, if I bought a supercharger I would install it myself, and do it all but the tuning. But then again I don't mind getting dirty, and feeling the pride of working on MY car! I guess paying for others to do that is just your way of showing you true car knowledge!!!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
Originally posted by 5.0mustang I don't need to supercharge my car and make fun of 3rd gens to feel good. Just face it, you HAVE to add forced induction to run with the LS1s, it's okay, we all understand! And my goal isn't to put as many different power adders on and make fun of people, my ultimate goal is to go low 12s with a 306, un-ported GT-40s and a few more bolt-ons! Have fun blowing your car up while the "slower guys" here have fun racing!
And, if I bought a supercharger I would install it myself, and do it all but the tuning. But then again I don't mind getting dirty, and feeling the pride of working on MY car! I guess paying for others to do that is just your way of showing you true car knowledge!!!
Sigh....its like all I do, arguing with you is circles. It would save you and me alot more time if you would just take the time and read back a few post. We have already said and agreed that the 5.0 has MANY more aftermarket parts out there for it. So yes you are correct in saying that I have to go forced induction to keep up with a modded LS1. Actually I could go SHM and do intake, heads, cams, etc, etc but it would cost way too much and the car wouldn't be streetable. So I am going forced induction, forged internals, 50 shot of nitrous into the intercooler, and just plain out gonna boost it to hell. And I seriously could care less if you bought a SCer and had your grandmother install it. Why do I care? Point I was trying to make which obviously (still not suprisingly) went 10 feet over your head is I do not have the place nor time to work on my car. I work two jobs so I basically have no time to work on anything.
omg... there u go again! ur gunna compare a SUPERCHARGED HIGH TECH ENGINE.. to a low tech.. push rod ls1? im sorry, i really dont see y people buy new mustangs... u can drop 1-2k more.. .and get so much more car... really.. come on... i really dont understand y mustangs are better sellers... i really dont... it must be looks.. the world is a bunch of ricers... all looks, no performance... i dont understand... and the SS ran the same time in the 1/4 as teh 03 cobra!... what happend there!... and in the twisties... the ss, with a solid axl, ran .2 sec. behind the IRS, supercharged cobra... plus... and the price range between the cars is wide... im sure a base SS is cheeper then 35-40k.... with the 5k i saved... i can get better suspension upgrades, headers, and improve a lot on the SS... and it will kill a 03 cobra for the same amount of money...yea yea... if the 03 is modded... whatever..... pullies.. yea i know... an SS is still a better deal over both the GT and Cobra... im not sayin the 03 is slow.. .but... ford had to do a lot to make the car just skin by the camaro.... and when the camaro was in its last year.... way to kick the car when it was down....
__________________ 87 Camaro Z28 305 TPI auto
ZZ4 Cam : Hedman Coated Shorties : Hooker Catback : 1LE front and rear sways : TDS Wonderbar : Ported and polished TPI Intake : Holley AFPR : 9 Bolt Rear 72 Camaro RS 350 4bbl auto
Hooker Coated Long Tubes : Magnaflow Dual Exhaust : Full PTFB.com Suspension : Bilstein Shocks 93 Caprice 9C1 350 L05 auto
Semi-Stock Ex-Detectives Car www.GMInsidenews.com www.NJFBOA.org
There are parts available as YOU have stated! And give me a break. We put a 305 in my cousins V6 bird in his driveway. He had no garage, we parked the cars nose to nose, and worked with a small set of tools and a drop light. And it is a little harder to swap motors than it is to put in a S/C designed to fit a car! It didn't go anywhere over my head, I just think you are lazy. And don't mention two jobs, because I had a job, two cars, and my cousin had a full time job while we did this to his, in about 2-2.5 months!
__________________
http://www.lmmc-ct.com/featured/Members/0004/
Current cars:
1989 Mustang LX 5.0L: Bolt-ons.
-220.9 rwhp
-273.0 rwtq
13.8 @ 99 in the 1/4.
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee LTD: stock. Car-stats says 15.4 in the 1/4.
j/k actually I would go for a Z06 
two different animals if you ask me. 
Some of you guys are dumb as hell. And no jack *** I don't have to get a SCer to be able to run with LS1's but when your stupid *** says something like "crying: well if you put a supercharger on a LS1...then you shift really fast...then its a good day. What you gonna do then huh!?" Lets see your stupid *** beat a stock LS1. 
Preach to someone that gives two flying *****. 
