who do you think would win....stock for stock a thirdgen firehawk or a Turbo T/A??

Turbo T/A

I have an old hot rod magazine that says the third gen firehawk ran a 13.4 . I dont know what a turbo T/A runs but I want one now if they can beat a firehawk.

Average TTA was about that. That's what Pontiac claimed in the brochure.

But I've seen stock TTA's run in the 12's and in the 14's. Depends on driver, traction, weather, etc.

Mine with a chip, thermostat, and K&N ran 13.0. So mine was probably 13.3-13.4 completely stock.

WOW, my book lists them at 13.8. Thats pretty sweet times for stock

It will be a drivers race

im guessing this is theoretical, i have no clue for sure who would win though...

i read that someone pulled off a 12.9 in a firehawk straight from the factory and it was one of the five speed versions in stead of the Zf-6

Ummmm.... this has never been done??But, stock for stock?
If we could only go back it time.....

Definitly a drivers race, but I would give it to the Firehawk if the driver is really talented.

i say firehawk, especially if it was against the one 383 that was made.

wow... a true battle of the thirdgen monsters.... Im gunna say firehawk only becuase of the 8. I have not heard nor saw a hawk run, but with a higly modded engine like that, i say a hawk will pull it out if the driviers are the same.

I'm gonna say Firehawk. The specs I've seen have it running 13.2-13.4 at 107-108. Never heard of a stock TTA trapping that high.

i also would say the Firehawk. that would be a sweet race to watch. :hail:

Nope, stock TTA's didn't trap that high. 104-105.

But you are forgetting one really important thing, launching. With my car, anybody could have done it. Leave it in drive, bring the car up to 2000, nail it. 1.88-1.90 short times all day. That's what I got the first time out in it.

I don't think you'll find too many Firehawk's running short times like that.

i have actually seen a TTA running 12.43 at stock at first my impressions were but then he popped the hood as stock as they come....i dont know if its true or not but i heard if u put a thousnad bucks into a tta u can be running in the 10s.

IS THIS TRUE?

Id pay alot to see that race.

You can do a lot of stuff to the TA and nobody would be the wiser. 12.4 is a bit of a stretch for a stocker. With just a handful of mods though, its easy.

For $55, I could have ran 12's. $25 for Thrasher 92 chip, $5 for 160 thermostat, $25 for a K&N, paper clip to lock converter at line( worth .2 and 2 mph). That would have put me at 12.8@106.

I went 12.1@111 on all the stock stuff. Turbo, injectors, downpipe, exhaust, suspension. I did that on Nittos. That was probably a couple of hundred dollars to get to that point.

Now I'm 10 mph faster but only .3 sec. quicker. New turbo, 50# injectors, 3" downpipe, SLP cat back, etc. Probably $2000 with those mods.

But the tranny went so that was $2000 for a converter and billet pieces inside the trans to make it last.

Tuning has been a big problem, at least launching the car. Can't build boost because it runs so rich at low speeds. But I think I've finally got a handle on that. Hopefully low 11's next time out.

The turbo TA's are about the easiest cars to make fast and go fast for cheap.

hey TTA, can you PM with what pin you have to stick the paper clip in to have the TC lock up?... i hear many good things about this "mod" and .2ths would be sweet.

how much horsepower and torque do thos TTA's have stock?

Its getting one thats the hard part.

hehehe yea... the 1500 people that own then really dont give them up to easily.

I think its A and F. Its been so long since I've looked at it. I put a switch in the ashtray that's been there for quite awhile.

Great thing about the 2004R, lock it up on the line and it won't stall like a 700R4. No lockup in 1st gear. So it locks as soon as you go into second gear.

Rob

It was rated at 250hp and 345tq. It made 300hp in reality.

Several theories why it was underrated. 5hp less than Corvette. 250hp was the rated limit for the 2004R so they kept it there for warranty. Either way, it was way underrated.

Rob

Not really. Seems like there are always 5 or so on Ebay at any given time. And they seem to go for cheap sometimes if you really looking for one.

Rob

there is a turbo ta in the paper today with less than 8k miles for $13,000...if only i had money...(i'm from newark de so if anyone wants to come buy it and give it to me they are welcome to do so)

Anyone that would sell an 8K mile mint TTA for 13K I'd like to slap. A low wholesale price for the car in average condition(minor blemishes and wear) is $15K going up to $23K I believe for a pristine one. Why people undervalue these cars is beyond me. It's better to light a match to them than sell them recently. Prices have been going up lately though.

Mine will possibly be up for sale once it is completed, I have bills and am looking for a house soon, priorities change as life and marriage go on I guess.

i'd put my money on the TTA but i think it would be real tight

Dont tempt me..saw one at a car show this summer for $12k, had to think long and hard about it.

I've been thinking about selling mine. Probably take $16K for it. 34K miles, all mods, all stock parts taken off, owner's box, everything.

I'm thinking of getting a GTO but the TA would have to go first. We'll see....

A new GTO!! oh man... that would be sweet... and an old GTO would be even sweeter...

Dream Car #2-
67 GTO
Dark Cherry red
455 FI motor
6spd T-56
12 bolt 4.10's
Leather Seats
200 shot for thoes days you just cant get enuff.

I've saw a few for sale over in the UK each year. They seem to be stickered at the equivalent of $18000-$23000. Absolutely incredible cars for the money!

Yet over here they're 35k. It's nice that they're pricing them out of the range of anyone who wants to go fast cheap, though. *** forbid they do something nice for the "average" consumer. Make more SSRs GM, you're on the right track! Overpriced plus underpowered=sex.

Firehawk!

actually the Corvette in 89' was only rated at 245hp. so that means the Turbo T/A had 5 MORE rated ponies than the Corvette that year.

also, the GNs for 86/87 were always rated at 5 more hp than the Vette of the same year. why people always say nothing is rated higher than the Corvette is beyond me when the real facts are so out in the open

Rob, if you sell your car I'm driving down to MD to slap you lol


but for the original question at hand...it's a driver's race..personally I'd take a TTA...easier to mod, I wouldn't care about modding it...plus if you know how to tune them the LC2 is a better motor in my opinion

and there is no way a stock TTA is running 12.4's bone stock, maybe with mostly stock parts..but when we say stock I'm talking down to the paper filter..

Here's some interesting numbers out of a Motortrend "5 Year Road test review" I had lying around ( probably printed in '97 ):

'88 20th Trans Am Turbo 3.8V6/4A/rwd 250/4000(hp) 340/2800(torque) 5.1 (0-60) 14.2/98.9 mph (quarter)

'88 Pontiac Formula 5.0V8/5M/rwd 215/4400(hp) 285/3200(torque) 7.5 (0-60) 16.0/88.5 mph (quarter)

'91 Pontiac Formula 5.0V8/5M/rwd 230/4400(hp) 300/3200
(torque) 6.5 (0-60) 14.8/94.6 mph (quarter)

'93 Pontiac Formula 5.7V8/6M/rwd 275/5000(hp) 325/2400
(torque) 6.1 (0-60) 14.7/97.2 mph (quarter)

'93 Pontiac Firehawk 5.7V8/6M/rwd 300/5000(hp) 330/2000
(torque) 4.9 (0-60) 13.5/103 mph (quarter)

lol 14.2 BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

next...


also..it was 89 not 88

lol@ 14.7 out of a 93 formy..friend of mine has a bone stock one down to the filter..13.9

Motor Trend sucks lol

Ooops my mistake...yes the Tubo 'TA is '89 ( my typo ).

I understand Motortrends "margin of error" is 0.3 seconds (give or take).

Again, these are Motortrend numbers on these "stock" vehicles LOL.

even still their times are WAAAYYYY off

I think the only thing that is "wayy off" is people discrediting publications/organizations like Motortrend, Car and Driver, etc etc. All I hear is "this sucks" and "that sucks", blah blah blah. I would think these guys get their hands on vehicles that are as "true-to-stock" as possible. I wouldn't say that there numbers are "bang-on" but very close. When I hear people say "My friends stock bla blah blah pulled off 1 second faster in the quarter" sounds utterly rediculous. I think many of us motorheads understand how much work and money may be involved in just gaining a fraction of a second ( let alone a full second or more ) out of our vehicles in the quarter mile. I'll give more credit to these car publications then people who say stuff like that.

well I have a friend that has 3 TTA's and when they were ALL stock(down to the orginal paper filter) they all ran 13.4-13.6 range. YES, I said STOCK. 14.2 out of a TTA is comical, as is a 14.8 out of a 93 formula lol

now with the TTA, a lot depends on the weather and the driver..but like I said 14.2, BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH 14.2 out of a 300 horsepower car(and that 250 HP rating was done by GM on purpose, most TTA guys were getting near 300hp at the wheels when they dyno'ed their TTA's)

go to the track and see how dead on they are. Take for instance the EVO, some mags have them running 13.2's, I've YET to see one in stock form break a 13.6..now I'm not saying it's not a low 13 second car but you have to take what the mags say with a grain of salt..

One magazine(can't remember which one) has the LS1 fbody's as 14.2, LMFAO, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

GM says 13.4 for the TTA in the sales lit. Many other magazines got that, some high-some low. My 84 brochure says 15.2 for an HO 5spd and that's what mine did back when it was completely stock.

What should be the red flag is the LT1 cars. The only difference between a Firehawk and Formula was a Ram Air hood and 17" tires. The exhaust was optional. But either way, a 1.2 sec difference! That has to raise the There is nothing different in driving either one. 25hp doesn't make over a full second even if the it was across the entire rpm band.

And I think that Motortrend used to say how they raced a car. No power braking, no fast shifting, leave at idle, etc. Nothing "race" related in the way they drove a car.

I have yet to see any 1/4 miles times in any sales literature for any car that GM sells or has sold. Maybe in some magazine, but GM doesn't advertise 1/4 mile times for any car PERIOD!

oh no? now if I can only find my TTA brochure...

and in 89, in their brochure for the firebird they DID in fact list them..from the LO3 firebird all the way up to the TTA,,,

Like I said, they don't advertise 1/4 mile times because it is impossible to say what a certain car will do. There are way too many variables involved to make such a claim. It depends on the options the car has, the driver, etc. That is why GM and just about every other car manufacturer doesn't advertise 1/4 mile times, but hp and tq. It is a much more accurate way of showing a car's performance. In a sales brochure you will find what colors are available, sterio options, interior options, engine hp and tq. Wheel and tire combinations, etc, but no 1/4 mile times anywhere to be found. Think about it.

http://www.89tta.com/ttaspecs.htm

That is word for word what the brochure on the TTA says. My 84 Camaro brochure says 15.2 also. I guess I'll have to dig them out and take a picture.

and I'm telling you in 89 THEY DID! I have my brochure packed away but I've read it many times. Went through all the specs regarding motor,trans,suspension setup etc and also power and 1/4 mile times along with slalom..