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My friend just got a brand new 04 WRX. it's a manual with a turbo. I helped him put on a new downpipe last week. He has only been driving manual for about 3 weeks. He cant launch worth a crap, and he cant shift very well. though, very fast inbetween shifts.
My friends brother owns a 91 GTA. real nice car 60k miles. it's a 350, well kept up. of corse an auto, and is bone stock.
I'm pretty sure that the WRX would win if he could drive it, but he really needs more practice to race it.
so, who do you think will come out on top with this one?
__________________ 1991 305 TBI RS
Yes, I know the picture sucks, but the car is nice
Originally posted by 25thmustang Umm so can he shift fast or no?
No, very slow shifter and very slow off the line, he cant launch worth a damn. and yes I know driven properly the WRX will take him, but will driver error be enough to tip the scales in favor of the GTA?
One of the guys I race at the track has a '91 GTA. Mods include air foil, SLP Runners, homemade cold air and a Flowmaster Cat-back, no headers. He's run a best of 13.5 @ 99. Not sure who's running 15's with a SD 5.7L GTA but I'd say it's got mechanical probs. Mid 14's should be easy. My Z ran 14.4 with just K&N's and 135,000 miles.
Originally posted by TPI-Formula350- The WRX will win this race if it is driven well. 5.7 GTA runs 15.4-15.2. The WRX runs 14.4 stock.
I don't know what your smokin but a GTA with a SD 5.7 should run high to mid 14's
__________________ 2002 Trans Am WS6 LS1Ram Air
-15,000 Miles,C6 Wheels,Custom Chambered Exhaust(From Summit) 1999 Trans Am WS6 LS1(Wrecked)Ram Air
-Stock (2001 LS1Casting#12561584 with 241 Heads)
-Times:1/8=8.5801@83.66(13.15 1/4 mile estimated),2.0 60' 1983 CrossFire Trans Am WS7 305
-Hypertech Chip,Flowmaster 80 Series Muffler 1990 GTA Trans Am WS6 350(G92)
-Custom Chip,Throttle Body Bypass,Cold Air Intake,Car Sound Cats,3 inch Flowmaster Exhaust
-Times: (W/O Exhaust and Custom Tune By Mike(1bad91Z),Thanks)1/8=9.5380@72.49(14.67 1/4 mile estimated),2.1 60'
Originally posted by TPI-Formula350- The WRX will win this race if it is driven well. 5.7 GTA runs 15.4-15.2. The WRX runs 14.4 stock.
who's 350 3rd gen has ever run 15s when its in good condition with a competent driver? lol, an 89-92 GTA can run mid 14s with a good driver too. my IROC went 14.7 out of tune spinning all through first, ran a 14.42@100 MPH with a tune up and new tires. A newb in a WRX will be surprisingly slow and if that GTA is in good condition and can hook it'll probably beat the WRX rather badly.
hehe, mustang 5.0s don't run 16s unless its a piss-poor condition auto. the 96-98 4.6s autos on the other hand... yikes what was ford thinking
It really depends on gears. a 350 tpi with 2.77 gears is going to have a hard time breaking into the 14's. Now one with 3.23's or 3.42's shouldnt have a problem pulling off high to mid 14's. But those 2.73 or 2.77 gears take you down a couple tenths.
Racing on paper figures of what a car is supposed to do is fun.
But in my 88 IROC, "just" a 305 and crappy 2.72 (but posi) gears with just the free and basid mods, I have spanked 2 WRX Imprezza's so far form the lights and from a roll at 6omph one pulled 3 cars lengths on me before I pulled all 3 back (just) as speeds got towards 3 digits.
Most people can't drive a manual car to get the published figures.
From the sound of it that TA is gonna cream that WRX...
Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing but I have read many articles from the late eighties that tested GTA's and the best time I have seen in one is 15.2, I even have a 7/88 article from Motor Trend where they tested the Notchback GTA (350 it claims in article) and only got 15.88@90, soudns like 305 territory to me. I know people on these boards with stock cars are pulling mid-high 14's all the time but if your going off the old magazine data they were slower. If anyone can show me a test article from the late 80's where the got a good time on a stock GTA I would love to have a copy of it. I know some of you will automatically say those idiots at MT or C&D can't drive, but its an automatic for christ sake whats so hard to drive about it. This coudl be where the idea of low mid 15 sec GTA's come from.
Originally posted by FocusGhia Racing on paper figures of what a car is supposed to do is fun.
But in my 88 IROC, "just" a 305 and crappy 2.72 (but posi) gears with just the free and basid mods, I have spanked 2 WRX Imprezza's so far form the lights and from a roll at 6omph one pulled 3 cars lengths on me before I pulled all 3 back (just) as speeds got towards 3 digits.
Most people can't drive a manual car to get the published figures.
From the sound of it that TA is gonna cream that WRX...
Did it ever occur to you maybe he was rolling off the throttle because speeds where high and he already beat you.
It did occur to me but he wasn't as his engine was screaming as I was next to him with his dump valve giving it a loud hiss as he shifted into 4th.
My car is particularly bad on roll starts and thew WRX was definately the quicker car no question.
My point was more how "on paper" and according to magazine reviews and what we may have seen a few guys run at a track doesn't mean anytihng. It's all down to the 2 guys racing and it sounds like this guy can't drive that WRX even vaguely quickly. It's easy to get the best out of our auto v8, rwd cars. It's difficult to get the best out of a manual turbo car, especialyl with 4wd which tends to either fry the clutch or bog the engine down. getting it right isn't easy.
If the guy takes advantage of the fact the Imprezza driver is new to his car now is the time to go for it as getting the TA off the line is easy (compared to the WRX).
My car isn't all that, infact it's slow by todays standards (hey I only just got it, give me time, Im working on the mods one by one) but if I pick the right race, for the lights in dry weather, I cream a lot of cars.
Originally posted by FocusGhia Racing on paper figures of what a car is supposed to do is fun.
But in my 88 IROC, "just" a 305 and crappy 2.72 (but posi) gears with just the free and basid mods, I have spanked 2 WRX Imprezza's so far form the lights and from a roll at 6omph one pulled 3 cars lengths on me before I pulled all 3 back (just) as speeds got towards 3 digits.
Most people can't drive a manual car to get the published figures.
From the sound of it that TA is gonna cream that WRX...
Most published figures are from MT and C&D, and yes the average manual driver should match those times, their drivers are nothing special. Now if the numbers came from a performance mag, then their drivers will run better times, but not from MT or C&D.
This is why I dont like street racing, 14 second cars actually have advantages over faster cars...
I don't think anyone got to far off topic, we are talking about performance times for the 5.7GTA, thats basically what your asking is "Whats a stock GTA run and whats a WRX run with a bad driver?" Correct it just so happens most of us have more experience with the F-body. You want to throw out an unknown variable like whats the times for a WRX with a bad driver? We can't tell you for sure. All we can do is compare known #s and times. Stock for stock the WRX wins with a bad driver who knows, go race and tell us what happens.
alright stop bench and magazine racing.
it is alot easier to launch and race an automatic and it's more consistent.-FACT 1
A new driver, whose NEVER driven a stick before, and NEVER had any real seat racing time in a car will be no where NEAR what even the crappy magazines get, much more what good, experienced drivers will get.-FACT 2
the GTA has more muscle and is a lot more powerful. if its in good shape it will win this race.-FACT 3
A basic 350 GTA wth 2.73s can and should run 14s without a problem. no excuses, 200 RWHP and more than enough torque to get a 3650 lb car (with a 180lb driver) trapping over 95 MPH.-FACT 4
now that we've gotten this out of the way, go race!
Originally posted by vampiroc alright stop bench and magazine racing.
it is alot easier to launch and race an automatic and it's more consistent.-FACT 1
A new driver, whose NEVER driven a stick before, and NEVER had any real seat racing time in a car will be no where NEAR what even the crappy magazines get, much more what good, experienced drivers will get.-FACT 2
the GTA has more muscle and is a lot more powerful. if its in good shape it will win this race.-FACT 3
A basic 350 GTA wth 2.73s can and should run 14s without a problem. no excuses, 200 RWHP and more than enough torque to get a 3650 lb car (with a 180lb driver) trapping over 95 MPH.-FACT 4
now that we've gotten this out of the way, go race!
I went from never driving a stick to running a 13.9 my first time out. The cars best with the auto was a 14.3 with the same mods, so one of your facts might not be a 100% fact.
The GTA has more power and torque, but the WRX weighs less, can get the power to the ground much better, and has the advantage of better gearing. It should be a good race, and I bet the driver does make the difference. The WRX is a faster car, with a slower driver (or so we think).
Hey you never know but lets hope for the best go GTA! Its gonna be tough but if the kid really can't shift its in the bag. I know you guys arent going to believe me but i beat a 1993 Dodge Stealth R/T twin turbo by 1/2 a car in my 91 LO3 firebird (Stock). It was my best friends dads car and my friends 3rd time ever driving it. Haha you could eat a sandwich between his shifts but it was one of the closest races of my life. He jumped 2 cars, than while he was shifting into 2nd I'd jump 2 cars and so on up to 90. Than I almost got beat by his jeep liberty with a 3.7 the same night! haha i only had him by a car or 2. Just shows how bad people can't drive. Anythings possible I give it to the GTA.
A stock WRX can run down around a low/mid 14, but a big part of that is pretty much beating the crap outta it on the launch. Even if this guy can shift decently is he going to be doing an aggressive launch and take advantage of the AWD? Perhaps not. Without an aggressive launch he is not going to come anywhere near the car's potential. Now what all the downpipe will effect on the WRX, I'm not sure of. From what I know it's usually a pretty good mod on most of the similar turbo cars...
I would think driver should have much less effect on the GTA's times provided he doesn't blow the tires off on the launch. I'd have to say I'd bet on him without knowing him or the car specifically...
And lets not forget if it's a strong running example of a SD L98 it could be a excellent race with a stock WRX anyway, they can both run down in the mid/low 14s. Throw in the downpipe but add a crappy driver with no clutch-murdering AWD launch and I certainly would not be counting on a win for the WRX, they're just not that fast and too much of their prowess is based on the launch...
__________________ Ray87Z
-87 Z28 w/ a Vortec headed 350.
R.I.P. - Just totaled by a 16 year old girl in a 94 Mustang, go figure....
-New ride, 94 Z28 - LT1, A4 w/ 3.23s
new mods: Edelbrock headers, gutted cat, magnaflow catback, Moroso CAI
i was waiting for someone to mention launching an AWD car .
if the guy in the WRX really hammers the piss out of the poor thing, he will rocket to the lead like a fighter leaving a carrier. Not the best way to treat any drivetrain, especially an awd drivetrain, but that's how you'll get the best times out of an awd. the GTA is going to play catch up from then on. of course, if the guy really can't drive, there's a good chance he will bog it down and the car will fall on it's face, and then try to recover and catch the GTA while overcoming turbo lag after bogging the engine down. so many possibilities
WRX sedan w/ manual = 3085 - 227hp@6000/217lb ft@4000
GTA 5.7L and Automatic = 3476, pretty much same hp, and 120 more lb ft. (power may seem off for a 91 SD 5.7L, but remember, according to data given pontiacs had less power due to intake design....curse those low, sexy hoods! )
so much can happen, so much can happen. honestly, imho, hope the WRX screws up on the launch. if he revs high, the awd drivetrain will most likely save him (though too much of this and he will have fun explaining to the dealer why he broke expensive things ). If he under revs, and bogs it, it's gonna be over.
just hope that there's no "187 Launch" from the lane the WRX is in
[EDIT]editted to reflect a sudden case of idiocy syndrome[/EDIT]
Last edited by 89formula383; 06-10-2004 at 02:41 PM.
WRX sedan w/ manual = 3085 - 227hp@6000/217lb ft@4000
GTA 5.7L and Automatic = 3476, 100 more hp, and 120 more lb ft.
A GTA has 100 more HP than 227? I don't think so there pretty close to the same. GTA=230HP/330TQ or right in there give or take 5. So HP about the same it all comes down to driving. AWD+Turbo VS RWD/muchoTQ.
Reality is this race could go either way, GTA being older coudl suffer from bad tune, neglect etc. The WRX driver could suffer from incompotency you gotta figure with a new car it probably is in good tune and great shape.
yea car stats.com is , anyways i never seen a 350 run 15s unless it was really f*cked up, Well 14.4 for the WRX, well the 1990 l98 Iroc Z ran 14.4 bone stock in a 1/4. And my 1991 Z28 ran very low 14s with just exhuast.. I read on one car stat site that the the 91 350 ran 0 - 60 8.5 secs now i would deff jump off the cliff if my #s were like that!
A GTA has 100 more HP than 227? I don't think so there pretty close to the same. GTA=230HP/330TQ or right in there give or take 5. So HP about the same it all comes down to driving. AWD+Turbo VS RWD/muchoTQ.
, anyways i never seen a 350 run 15s unless it was really f*cked up, Well 14.4 for the WRX, well the 1990 l98 Iroc Z ran 14.4 bone stock in a 1/4. And my 1991 Z28 ran very low 14s with just exhuast.. I read on one car stat site that the the 91 350 ran 0 - 60 8.5 secs 
now i would deff jump off the cliff if my #s were like that! 
