If his budget is plenty then go for a LS1 swap. It's been done plenty of times with great success. I agree that a regular sb can be built pretty strong and still streetable, but after building plenty of small blocks and owning my LS1, you'd have to build a healthy sb to give you the power of a stock LS1. It's just a fact that the LS1's technology is superior and will be a better choice in the long run. Plus you'll get great gas mileage with it or find a 06 Z06 engine laying around..........427inches and 500hp would end this thread immediatly

No one will argue that LS1s have better technology and are great right out of the crate. SBC parts are extremely cheap and the right combo can be very competitive with an LS1. Look at the ZZ4 crate motor for instance. It only uses L98 heads and has a very competitive power curve vs an LS1 within the same price range, AND it comes with a forged crank AND has a smooth idle. I guess the only point I'm trying to make here is that SBC can be VERY competitive vs an LS1 and don't count it out.

Edit: Also, the LS1 has 6 bolt mains which is nice, but the stock aluminum block cannot be bored as much (without costly re-sleeving) as a good SBC casting and can't support as much hp/tq. Serious super/turbo motors are usually an iron 6.0 truck style block or a C5R style block.

The ZZ4 is advertised and rated with headers and such already on it though I believe. An apples to apples setup and the ZZ4 isn't really performing with the LS1... Last in car dyno numbers I saw for a ZZ4 (with headers/good exhaust) was still lower than even a stock LS1 as a matter of fact... It was actually more in range with an LT1.

However I still contend a budget built standard SBC can outperform a LS1 for less money/trouble than a LS1 swap... I've never been that impressed with the ZZ4 for the money though, guess it's a nice shortblock.

I just used that as an example of what an inexpensive crate with crappy heads can still do. I am in total agreement that a budget SBC is still tough to beat. It simply has an enormous aftermarket and too much experience. Everyone knows that an on-the-cheap 383 stroker can STILL produce 500 hp. Fuel consumption and idle quality will always go to the gen III though, since that was one of its design goals (along with a less aggressive sound, unfortunately).

I agree that you can build a healthy sb for less than the cost of an LS1 and parts to swap. I just agreed that a LS1 would be his best bet since he did say his budjet was "plenty" had he said it wasn't too much, I'd of also said build a regular sb

That's all I've been saying all along! The guy that started this thread said he already had a 350 and he wants to turn it into a LS1/STi Killer. So assuming that the 350 has a good bottom end all he would really need to do is buy a good set of heads and take advantage of some of the new roller cam tech. Then spend some money on a real good EFI system like Mini ram or stealth ram.

hmmmmmmmmmm.





**reads back to MrDude_1s first reply**


yup. thats what i said too. except i know that if he sticks to 23* castings, he will be at a large disadvantage, and will have to make up for the flow with a even larger cam... the cam is already going to be slightly larger because you cant do the same agressive lobe profile... keep holding yourself back, and instead of a tame, streetable LS1 comparable LS1 killer....... you have the same hot SBC that everyone and their father has been building since the 50s.

So that is a reason not to do it?

imo a good heads/cam package will give him what he's looking for.. remember, it's not dyno numbers that count, but what it runs at the track. Stock ls1s run low 13's, full bolt on ls1s run mid 12s if they're good drivers. You can build a car to beat that easy, it's all about proper planning and good driving.

Don't give yourself a goal of "beating LS1s, EVOs and STIs." Give yourself a goal of hitting 11.99 in a street car, and nothing will be able to touch you. Nothing unless it lopes or whines anyway

Not neccesarily true......My car doesn't lope or whine at all. Sounds completly stock, which it basically is. Heck, I don't even have headers.

*cough* all of my full bolt on LS1 buddies are in the 11s *cough*




(the secret is in the 60'... not the power)

Your friends must be better drivers than mine!

...

You could build a SBC pretty easy that would rip the snot out of an LS1, not to mention the EVO/STi , but you wouldn't want to drive that SBC around all day long like you would the LS1.

thats exactly my point


then theres other little things like BSFC (how much fuel you use for the HP you make..) and some other small things.

still with a good EFI system, a proper selection of parts, and some amazing heads, a SBC could do it..... i just dont see it happening with ANY 23* heads.

hey since we are talking about combinations. could someone guess how much HP i have and what i could do in the 1/4 mile?

i have a '72 350 4 bolt main bored .30 over, new steel crank, flat top pistons .30 over, the cam is a crane cams energizer i was told power starts at 2500 from the mechanic and i found cams with lift of 454 - 480 with power starting at around 2000, trick flow g2 aluminum heads 64cc milled to 62cc 190cc and 2.02/1.60, edelbrock performer rpm intake, edelbrock 750cfm carb, march aluminum pulleys, msd ignition distibutor and coil, aluminum water pump. i have a 700r4 built, and 410 gears

is there any easy way to tell which cam you have?

they could guess, but it wouldnt be anywhere close to accurate.

well everyone is arguin about oh u'd do low 14's with this, low 13's with this, high 11's with this... i just thought they'd know since someone must have a combination or close to what i have

OK I'll take a stab in the dark. I bet you have somewhere around 350 crank HP and run mid to high 13's

k thanks, i thought id get high 12's - low 13's from what i heard elsehwere, like to get different opinions, id like to take it to the track soon

Well with out knowing the cam its really hard to say. 12's is possible.

is there an easy way to check the cam? it was the crane cam energizer camshaft and lifters thats all i know.

This is the only real opinion you're ever going to get, as the track always has the final say....

Absolutely!

I'll disagree with you here. 'Maybe' back in the 70's, 80's.... and even the 90's, this would apply (especially if we're talking carb's). But I've driven in heavily worked L98's and LT1's that would destroy most modded LS1's, that honestly purr like kittens out in traffic (thanks to today's DIY tuning).

I tried to point that out earlier but I guess LS1 owners seem to think SBC and 23 degree heads can't perform with them.

are those off a 305

soory i see those are off a 350, i juts figured out i had a 350 all along, when you buy a vehicle used, don't trust them look it up for yourself, when i bought the truck, the guy said it had a 305 in it, but know mortec.com says a 350