alright something that i am still waiting on doing, a kid in town has a 82 or 83 TA, again yes i have my 84.. blah blah the both of us have LG4 305's slow boat anchor motors. blah blah mine slightly but not really modded besides belts taken off blah, and headers, exhaust, i have factory cowl induction he has the same, like i said basicly identical, only difference he has 200r4 i have 700r4. ok to story line. what would win... his bone stock nothing done, mine is near bone stock, has oem exhaust size with the headers. so keep that in mind. i had a engine builder say the largest i would want to go is 2 3/4 inch exhaust 3 inch and i would loose all power.. thus i stuck with oem size. ok there, dispute that a engine builder for damn sakes.. who builds 1,000,000 camaros for the historic nascar leauge or what not. ok aruge it. thank you, im salty from the last post sorry. but the only thing i think he has compared to mine is a different rim size, i think his are 14 inch.. im not sure dont qoute me, im not a professor in rim sizes or 3rd gens. again, which would win, slightly modded boat anchor, or non modded boat anchor

Firstly, I can understand why you're upset. Just calm down. People seem to forget when they too were new to the scene at one time as well. Try not to step on people toes with comebacks and people will react a little nicer.

You should have this one. The TH-200C, besides being a worthless auto in terms of durability, is also inferior in gearing to your tranny. Considering that you're modded and have a much better first gear, you should have him by a car or so.

Victory should be yours, basically.

As stated, the 200rc is crap. the 700R4 is a lot better of an auto tranny. Also since youve doen exhaust work and headers that will help out a lot. You should win this one, good luck

Well, I think that you have answered the question for yourself. You mentioned that both cars were nearly identical, except yours is slightly modded. The only difference the 82/83 has regards the rims; I dont think the rims will make much of a difference in a race. So if you have slight modifications over his stock TA, then your car will be, theoretically, slightly faster. But from that idea, I still dont think it can be set in stone who will win, even if technically your car has the upperhand, because that upperhand is very minimal. So, any mistake on your part while racing him might just make up for that small advanated you initially started with.

Now, regarding the transmission, what 80smetalfan said is probably going to be more useful then just a general understanding that your car is modded and his isnt. If your transmission is that much better than his, then maybe your advantage is a bit stronger than I previously thought.

Either way, when the time comes, good luck bro.

Your engine builder is wrong about exhaust size. A full 3" will not hurt you.

he said if i ran straights back at 3 inch i would loose too much back pressure for the motor. thus causing rwhp loss.. i believe him.. as it stands because i live in iowa, i have no cat, no muffler just 2 1/4 exhaust from flow tech headers

3 inch exhuast did wonders to my 305.
Man we know what where talking about we own these cars and we know what makes them tick. Its not like your running 3 inch dual pipes that extra 3/4 will help out. An put a aftermarket muffler back on I'm sure you'll get a sweeter sound by doing so.

Boooooring.

It's easy, hop in your cars and race.

My moms VW Gulf will outrun you.

I will DEFINETLY argue that.

Click the "Read my Backpressure FAQ" link in my sig and all your questions will be answered.

Either your engine builder is smart and told you it needed that pipe size so that it would retain a lower power band and thus trick you into thinking it was faster and that he was right so that you would bring him more business... or he's a moron.

He mentioned in his previous post he had 2 1/4" true duals, so in that case I would think that 3" true duals might be a little excessive for a nearly stock LG4.

If I were in your situation, I would just go ahead and convert over to a single 3" exhaust with a decent-flowing muffler. I have Hooker 2055 headers (1 5/8" primaries, 3" collectors, 2.5"-to-3" y-pipe), a 3" Catco high flow catalytic convertor, and a 3" Hooker catback (Hooker Aerochamber muffler). It should be more than adequate for whatever I plan to do with the LG4.

I'm not too good at math, but I recall reading somewhere that that over surface area of a 3" single exhaust is greater than that of 2 1/4" duals. Don't quote me on that, but I'm sure someone who is more knowledgable than myself can do the calculations and figure it out.

EDIT: I'm somewhat bored and I feel like offering some more advice for you on how to make your car a bit faster, since it seems like you could use it.

First, I would go ahead and make the switch over to fully synthetic fluids for your engine and entire drivetrain. That includes using a GOOD synthetic motor oil (Mobil 1, AMSOIL, Royal Purple and Redline all come to mind--I personally use Mobil 1 since it is cheap and easy to find), a good DOT III synthetic transmission fluid (I honestly don't know who makes synthetic ATF, but I know it's out there), and some kind of synthetic rear end gear fluid (again, the same companies come to mind for this--I use Royal Purple). Synthetic fluids have been shown to increase rear wheel horsepower by a good margin compared to standard/mineral fluids. On your LG4, the power difference probably won't be substancial, but I personally like to reduce as much parasitic loss as possible and synthetics definately help in that department. Whatever you do, avoid "semi-synthetic" fluids like the plague--they are usually nothing more than regular fluids with a few properties that are comparable to synthetics, but cost substantially more money.

Make sure you grab a good oil filter as well. AC Delco, Wix and K&N all seem to have good products in this category. I would recommend an AC Delco PF35L filter, which you can pick up at AutoZone for $10. It's made of a fully synthetic material that flows and filtrates better than paper, which is what most oil filter manufacturers use in their filters. It's also slightly larger than the stock filter, and as far as I'm concerned the more oil you have protecting your engine, the better. Don't worry about anti-drainback valves, they are unnecessary on the V8s that come in our cars. The tranny filter is of no consequence as far as I know; the one that you can buy at the counter at AZ will suffice.

Going even further, you'll want to get yourself a good set of spark plugs, a good wire set and replace most of your ignition's components, such as the coil, cap and rotor. The general concencus of these boards are to go with AC Delco plugs and gap them to your engine's specifications. After using a few other brands of plugs such as Bosch and Champion, I can definately agree with the the concensus on using the ACs. In my opinion, there is no other better plug out there for my engine. I've heard Autolites work good too, but I've never personally used them. As far as the wire set goes, you can probably use whatever you can get from AutoZone, as your stock ignition is probably not putting out that much spark to show a noticable difference between two sets. I use MSD 8.5mm wires, but I can tell you right now it doesn't really make a SOTP difference versus the standard Bosch wires that I had on before. If you really want the peice of mind, once again go with AC Delcos. The coil, cap and rotor can be replace with whatever, so long as it was designed for your ignition. Once again, it's probably not going to make a big difference between brands.

The objective here is to have your engine working at it's peak operating condition, instead of having old components reducing power. You definately won't gain any horsepower from doing any of this, but at least you won't have to worry about parasitic losses from tired, worn parts.

If you're still looking for a little more power on the cheap, you might try picking up an aluminum driveshaft from an LS1 f-body. Once again, the goal here is reducing parasitic loss from rotational mass. The aluminum driveshaft is slightly lighter in weight than the stock steel driveshaft that came on most thirdgens. That means the engine can spin the driveshaft slightly easier, which puts more power to the wheels since it's not being used to spin the weight of the driveshaft. LS1 driveshafts can be had for about $100-$120 on ebay or even these forums from time to time.

Chances are your LG4 has a belt-driven clutch fan (like mine). Replacing this fan with a fan from something such as a 305 TPI or L98 (dual electric fan setup) will definately reduce engine drag, thereby allowing more power to the wheels. I've heard claims of up to 12+ HP from removing that one component, but I personally can't see the fan taking that much power to rotate (maybe at high RPMs?). In any case, you'll definately free up some easy HP by switching over to an electric variety.

Are you beginning to see a trend? Most of the cheap recommendations I am giving you is not really adding more HP to your engine, but "recovering" HP from many of the things that cause parasitic loss. After doing all this, you're going to have to start looking into real go-fast parts, and unfortunately most of them aren't cheap or easy to install. But this is where you'll make most of your engine's power: cam, heads, intake, tranny stall convertor, rear end gears, ect.

As a disclaimer, I'm not trying to say you are going to gain "X" amount of horsepower from doing all of these suggestions, but I can garuntee you that you will at least regain some of that HP that was lost from old age or parastic losses. And like I said before, I believe every little bit counts... and in a race between cars of nearly identical power outputs, it's that little extra bit that will secure victory (negating the skill of each driver, of course).

I hope that helps. With some reading and thinking, I bet that you can make a car that is respectable, regardless of what other people on the board have to say. The main thing is you can't overestimate your car's power output based on heresay and mechanics' myths, or underestimate another car because it's a domestic or import. Any car can be made fast with the right amount of time, work and of course money. If you stick to the facts and work them into your car accordingly, you won't have any problems dusting other people on the street or the track.

You never want backpressure. Ever. Don't belive him. Do your own research if you want further validation. A straight through system is what you want. You want as few transitions as possible and where bends are necessary you want them to be as smooth as possible.

Do you really have a dual 2.25" system or is it a dual outlet?

By the way.

Area = pi R^2

so 2.25" diameter = 3.14 * (2.25/2)^2 = 3.97. Two pipes to 3.97 + 3.97 = 7.9in^2

3" single = 3.14 * 1.5^2 = 7.06in^2

A dual 2.25" system has more flow area than a single 3".

This is assuming constant diameter piping with no crimps (ie. has to be mandrel)

Guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction, Shifty.

man I have been bitching and moaning about backpressure since before you even joined this site. quit stealing all my thunder on this one.

i have true duals i built them my self, i have a pair of shorty style flow tech headers. we had to build exhaust for it to come back to the back because of it, if i wouldve have know that shortys were so much a pain in the *** i wouldve gotten full lenght.. it was a pain in the ***. about 4 hours to get them on and then build exhaust was another few hours. i have no muffler since i live in iowa, they are just straight pipes so its oh about as loud as you can get going at 5000rpm of course its dumb of me to be driving like that so i only take it to about 4600-4800 rpm. thanks guys.. but honestly i raced him a while back i spun he didnt and he took me. with these fairly modded parts, and if i dont spin out. would i take him this time

how do you spin the tires?

I agree. I can't even spin the tires on my LG4 (save for a slight chirp) with Hooker 2055s and a 3" catback. This is with Yokohama AVS db2 tires.

Wow, an 82 and an 84 TA...both running LG4's? That would have to be one of the slowest races in history.

LOL it would be rather slow wouldn't it

In his defense, my old LG4 would light up the tires from first all the way to third when i peeled out to the right. Course I had a built tranny that shifted HARD and my tires were bald!!

must of been that californian rain

If I was you kid I wouldn't piss my money away on that thing.
Bottom line.

With an LG4? Are you serious? That is the best possible car to have as a young muscle car enthusiast. You can learn the basics of hot rodding without killing yourself. These cars are a dime a dozen and cost nothing to run and insure (insure being underlined). They are perfect for a weekend employed 16 year old that is in school and wants to learn about cars. For next to nothing you get a V8 and RWD. If they are serious about the hobby, and by the time they make money, they will have a great platform and the smarts/maturity to take the car to the next level. You can’t touch this with any other car with the exception of the fox body.

thanks shifty for stickin up for me, not alot of people give me credit, and to my own defense my car spins posi, then not only does it do that, it does do a second gear scratch believe it or not, for a LG4 its highly underated. granted its slow, i have never said it was a 13, 14 second car, i ran it the other day, it runs high 15's. around 15.7 to 15.9 so never had i said it was fast. i do believe i am apart of a dying breed up here in the center of iowa, everyone drives thier gas savers, and thier japanesee toys. granted some are faster than snot. but at my school there are these cars that are faster than mine pathetic i know. 1. 89 fox body (strip ready) has 330hp. 2. its sad to say but mine is next in line. theres a CRX that drives to my school but i already beat him to a bloody pulp. and this kid is building his cavalier so yank. but i guess you could say our school is like the special olympics for racing.. again thanks shifty for stickin up for me. and dont worry, i plan to get a IV gen 98-02 ta come fall. so say what you will now, i know i know, its slow but im progressing to the big boys here soon. lets hope i dont kill my self!!!

don't feel too bad about driving a slow car. my first car has been through being a nice little speedster but at the end when I had to sell it was powered by the same motor you have more or less. just without the computer controlled stuff. but still same basic carbed 305 sad thing was it was in a 71 camaro.
the car has seen better days and many motors but I couldn't afford to keep it going and the 305 went in and other things tarted going wrong and I was an 18 year old kid yourself so I know what it's like.

now I'm driving little econobox myself though but not really by choice. still my classic accord is kinda fun at times but that only seems to happen on dirt and snow. neither I'm near enough. so your doing better then I am at the moment

actually it was the ****ty one legger rear LOL

i

on my defense, that wankle of yours?? how do you even light them up, im going to be putting a damn picture of me doing a donut in the car, and also me lighting up the dang tires so i will stop this nonsense of you all doughting my LG4.. it has posi, and it has the 3.23 gears, does no one listen to me when i say i have all the goodies I MEAN ALL, except the L69 motor, that they offered.. stupid buyer.. good lord, who does that, goes and buys basicly the top of the line car, but with out the top of the line motor?!!!?!?!!!

look at that car in the bottom pic that thing is a mean machine man.

but it's not that hard to spin the tires. 4.10 gears and a 7000rpms clutch dump does wonders for spinning the tires.

but calm down man your car is slow my car is slow and my other car is slower.


someone needs to take the floss out of their bum

With all that high speed action a better car might stall trying to keep up.

Available this month on PPV

You have no reason to be dumping on other people's vehicles. My car is slow, your car is slower. Accept it and move on. Let me explain, if you want this is available in Crayon.

84 Berlinetta
Firebird S/E A4 LG4 V8 8.6:1 5.0 (305) 150@4000 240@2400 4bbl

92 RS
Firebird M5,A4 LO3 V8 9.3:1 5.0 (305) 170@4000 255@2400 TBI 3.08 ---- 2.73 ----


There ya go, both nothing to brag about, and especially not from a performance standpoint. Take it from a 305 owner also, at least its running.

one last thing I didn't think of

you are getting upset cause I'm giving you a hard time for ragging on your car. you claim it has all the goodies, posi, better gears and stuff. just not the best motor


but what part of the car am I ragging on when I'm takling about spinning the tires? the mtoor right? you need to have decent power to spin the tires so makes sense me to me.

my car spins the tires, and yet does a second gear scratch on dry pavement, durring the summer, when its COMPLETELY SUNNY! and about 85 degrees. so guy yes it spins the tires, it does burn outs, hell it will rip the tires off from a stand still. the only thing it doesnt do is leave black marks. they are more white. i think its the wheel hop but im not sure.
BUT THE FACT FLIPPIN REMAINS IT SPINS THE DANG TIRES!

YAYYY! Its spins the tires, you can get a Geo to spin the tires, just because your tires screech does not mean that you have Monster Hp and Tq. If you nail it at a stop light in my car they will screech, and I have a Posi too. Its nothing special. Shifty is right, the LG4 is great for learning, the LO3 is great for learning, where the bottlenecks of your motor are, what you can do to improve it and etc. Just please don't go against other peoples vehicles without understanding what you have.

i take alot crap for my car but when it comes to that its retarted. i dont have to rev the motor to burn out, so why would someone say that. its retarted, its kinda like high school, just cause your a freshman your stupid. well its like that now with my car here just cause its a LG4 its slow..
i qoute my self again, i never once said it was a 13 second car. infact its mid 15 to high 15's. ok and yes shifty is completley right, its a great car to learn on. and also, there are really only 2 cars at my school that are "sports cars" this 82 is a kid that i know well his dad owns it. my self and another kid named josh he has a 89 mustang GT with a built 302. so seriously i take alot of offense to someone that comes up to me and says your car is slow, cause there are ALOT of cars that are slower than mine EXAMPLE.. a RX-7 (82-89) there arent alot that are faster than my LG4. but there are some that can kick the living crap out of my car. im proving my point some people shouldnt be making fun of someone that is 18 and has the need to have more power.

You made a point? I'm making a point, DON'T ASK FOR PEOPLE'S ADVICE ON A SUBJECT AND THEN GET DEFENSIVE!! If you do not want to hear about your car being slow, then instead ask what you can do to improve your cars performance on a budget. Your being retarted comparing me to high school. I never said your stupid because you drive an LG4, I said your stupid for saying what you said about his RX-7. You don't want to hear about your car being slow, but want to bash on other people's cars here? Be prepared to recieve the aftermath. By the way, your 18 im 19. I know where your coming from, my first car was a 2.8 Berlinetta, that was dogged and made about 80 hp to the wheels, so don't try and educate me on slow cars big guy.

Thanks for playing.

since you obviously can't get a simple point here.

first off lets start with this.
the car I drive now it is a 76 accord. it makes 68hp and less then half the torque of your car at a whopping 86lbs/ft. I can spin the tires as well. heck I can roast them decently well in first gear and swore I heard a chirp once going into second. so by taking this your car must be a power house right? I bow to the power of your car.

even more so not to rev the motor to burn the tires. or do you mean don't have to rev to 7000rpms? cause if that's the case I don't have to do that either in my rx7. I was just usign that for an example. my honda won't even hit 7000rpms.

you say your car does mid to high 15's? I would assume your guessing a little high their. a ford mustang is not a sports car.


you obviously can't take any kind of joke or any kind of hyumor what so ever. you where not the only one I was giving a hard tmie to. my rx7 is slow again my honda is even slower. do you really think I'm just here to put you down and show you how pitifull your car is? it seems you already know as is your car isn't that great. for that I give you credit compared to some people I have seen come and go from this place talking about how their stock lg4 was beating up on new mustang GT's couldn't quite beat the cobra though buth ung with him. your not like that so that is good. but calm the f<x>uck down kid. it's a car you don't need to get so uptight cause some guy who dirves a car slower then yours is giving you a hard time.


maybe more to come when I go home. it's the end of the day so time to leave

Outstanding, I couldn't agree with you more

i ran a quarter we have here in grimes, well, its a empty road that we marked down to the tooth of a 1/4 mile, its fastest i ran was i believe 15.59 and the slowest (didnt hook up) was a 15.9
that was after i put the headers, the exhaust, the wires. and k&n filter.. i know it ran about 16.5 when basicly stock. i remeber because i ran a mustang GT that was running a 15.9 in the quater, i believe it was a 86 (first FI mustang 5.0) i think dont qoute me im not sure. but thats what i know.. i am sorry but there are somethings that if your going to make a comment about my car getting slow, im going to be a jack ***.. i know its not right, but it some times gets me upset. i shouldnt but i do.
i am sorry...

Good luck, I hope the LG4 works out for you

next time you are going to post something like this wait till after I get home take my nap and finish my rant please.


now that you said this I have nothing to rant about

oh well on to a new post


but agreed good luck with the LG4. might not be the greatest car stock but as shifty said it's not a bad place to learn. and either way if lets say I was serious though in saying your car was a piece of cow poo does it really matter? first it's just a car not your life and on top of that if you like the car it shouldn't matter what others say. there are guys here on the board who drive a V6 which we all know is fairly slow. even compared to your lowly LG4 but take a look at the V6 boards sometime if you get the chance you will see some guys there who have been put down over their choice of car but didn't care and ended up putting something together really nice. a few of them are running hihg 14's (at least if I remember right) to mid 15's N/A . might not sound like much but then again remember this is a V6 with NO AFTERMARKET a weak platform with no balls in a heavy car. it didn't matter to them and they put together something they like. then there are a few others who have even taken it a step further and actually put a turbo on their really low underpowered good for nothing V6. sure maybe not the fastest car still but you know what it doesn't matter to them it's fast enough makes them happy and kind of a see what I can do with what you call a POS. be proud of what you have and what drive. take what others say as a way to improve your car or to learn from. don't take it personally.


again though have fun and enjoy what you have.




btw I'm still shocked you can spin the tires

even more so since you have a limited slip

I feel the need to post this.

84TransAm305:

You are obviously very young and misinformed when it comes to cars. You're trying to learn, which is good. You came to thirdgen.org (the BEST site for learning about your thirdgen), which is also good. What is NOT good is your attitude.

Most of us with a decent number of posts (i.e. we've been here for awhile) actually enjoy helping younger/newer members out. Most of us enjoy helping people learn their cars and about other cars. That's really the entire spirit of hotrodding - the teamwork and friendship.

But you are making it difficult to even respect you, let alone teach you a few things. Just relax, stop spamming the Theoretical Racing board with threads (most of us really enjoy this board as opposed to the purely technical aspects of the rest of this site) and sit back and read. Feel free to comment respectfully. You've said alot of uninformed things and insulted alot of people, including me. BTW, I apologize for snapping back.

Just relax and chill. Hell smoke some weed for all I care.

Oh also, most of us here are pretty close in age to you. I'm only 19, I'll be 20 in 3 months.

Here is some advice....read every sticky and tech article in this website and commit everything to memory its what i did....twice

It really helped and the search button doesnt hurt either. If you have a problem with your car chances are 1000 people before you have gone through the same thing.

I turned 19 in November so yeah Iam kinda young myself

i know i can sound like a horses *** but theres some times where it gets to me when people dont believe me... it shouldnt but it does...
but anyways, im thinking today if i have enough gas after work, a nice donut show... and some pictures of course for the boys on third gen..
after all some people are shocked right lol

it will never happen man.
we all know that

You sure youre not talking about wheelstandin87? I see his "Who will win" threads and I want to beat someone.

Just to let you know, most rear wheel drive cars with v-8's and even some v-6's will do donuts. No matter how pathetic the car and its drivetrain is. It doesnt take a lot of power or skill to do one. So if you want to make yourself look like an idiot, and show everyone here your car will do something pretty much everyone knows it will already do...then go for it. Just be sure to let everyone know how long your license is suspended for and how much your ticket costs when you get back.

Just cool it, dude. The kid already somewhat apologized, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a little burnout fun. Everyone here gets a kick out of breaking traction, that is why we own RWD American sports cars.

haha him too

and it's quite true a V6 can do a donut. Before he started having problems with the rear my buds 3.4 92 RS could do a pretty nice one.

first it's sports coupe

second my litte fwd honda can do a burnout so shove that up your rwd

can even do a donut in the snow

He wanted to know about an 84 vs an 82. I have to give him credit for picking the right race. Some people are asking about stuff like "My stock 85 Z vs 05 blown Saleen Cobra" or "Me (89 TBI with MSD coil) VS My friend (1998 BMW M3)"