Most people over look F-bodies as anything more than 1/4 mile or straight line cars, but this isn't quiet right. From the thirdgens on, they have been pretty decent handling cars out of the box, and with the correct mods, they can be very good handling cars. In fact, a while back a few of got to gethoer, and my car pulled higher numbers on a skidpad than a friends 2004 EVO Lancer and a 2002 WS6 Trans Am with BFG KDWS 275s. Mine's not really stock, but I was proud of that. (we were using sa G-Force meter, so I know the numbers aren't right, but my average was .10 higher than the EVO and .05 higher the WS6)

Ughhh, I'm not saying they can't be built for that type of racing, I'm saying that't not their intention and hasn't been so for a long time.

you should watch this video. That's a Cat deleted LS1 with GMMG exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tA9Hxlfmn4

You can't tell me that that LS1 doesn't sound mean.

So what's done to the y-body...

Magnaflow catback, Vararam intake, ported throttle body, good rotors

...and this....this just happened today

ouch man that sucks!!

heres a nice soundling ls1 http://media.putfile.com/torquer-v2-232234-595598-112
heres my baby at the moment it aint not old school 350

i like this ls1. best ls1 i ever heard
http://www.cancreations.com/lee/fms408idle.wmv

haha

I'll raise you a:

http://media.putfile.com/Untitled-0001-70-16

my cam is bigger in my vid! haha godzilla cam from FMS. near 800 lift and 270+ degree duration

LS1's are incredible

Man that sucks

whats the best motor for building 500whp+, ls1 or sbc or even ls2? im looking for a pretty much 11sec or better performance? can a turbo fit under the hood of the third gen? 'cause i mean a 1.6 sohc 4cyl turbo honda motor can be running high 10's (~416whp) and i dont really want to loose to one when i get my car..

when i get my heads/cam done i'll post up idle videos, Hey sideways, how do u like ur torquer 2 cam. HOws the drivability. could u deal with this cam on a 100% daily driver car?

I hope so. I plan to go with it when I upgrade heads/cam on my swap. From what I've read, it is ok as long as you have it well tuned. Better for drivability than bigger cams like MS4. It also seems to have a more street friendly power band, especially with higher compression and good heads. That's what I've found anyway.

Unfortunately the LS-1 is hard to beat But if you spend some extra money and time your 355 can make 500hp on pump gas with the right combo and you should have no problem keeping up or blowing by the stock LS-1 cars.

My friend just got back his 99 camaro with an LS1 done out to a 408 with the top end completely stock except the SLP air box with a gigantic cam and a mild tune and he is putting down almost 500 hp already. Truely amazing, and people wonder why I want to get my 383 blown.

I have a buddy making 402 HP at the wheels in a 92 Z28 and he ran another buddy in a 98 Z28 making 398 hp. Similar gearing, 6spd's and the drivers were well matched. At the top of 2nd gear the TPI car had half a car length, when he shift to 3rd the 98, LS1 car blew by him. Of course everyone will scream variables, but no matter how many times then race, same out come. Long live the LS series engine.

the LS2 can make 550+ hp with a cam and heads

I had forgotten about this thread....lol.

Yea, this thread is old. Fact remains, a 350 gen I with a stroker crank and BS heads will do the damage it has to do for ALLOT cheaper.


Not to mention...the big block.

damn 2 years later but my ls1 went 12.50's @ 112 last year with just full exhaust and a lid. Poor car needs to get modded but very stout for being close to stock Id say.. i was cutting like 1.9's on mts

Same mods on an LS engine will always go faster. Give it up on the old stuff. Its like the guys that stick by there flat head fords because they love them so much. Dont get me wrong, I love it when the older cars, with original style engines, ie LT1 and L98 roll with the LS cars.

I say go carbed old school, or newer LSx, that is that, EFI is not crap unless it is LSx style, you need the newest basically. But a GEN I with a good intake and carb with great heads makes just as much power. TPI and LT1 is a failure to the LSx.

ls1 ftw

So...do your feelings get hurt when you get beat by a non LSx powered third gen?

Well you're wrong.

They designed the 3rd gen to be a good handling car. They had to make so many sacrifices for fuel economy and emissions laws that it was just easier and cheaper for them to design a car that handled well than to design a car that was legitimately fast in a straight line.

Think back to 1977 and look what kind of horsepower those cars were putting out. The era of the big power muscle car was over, and as far as anyone knew in 1977, it was going to stay over as far as cars rolling off hte assembly line were concerned.

GM knew they couldn't make 350rwhp in these cars with the restrictions they had to work with, and they went out of their way to make sure these were very good handling cars. These aren't muscle cars, at least not from teh factory, they're all purpose GT cars.

Michael Lamm's book on thirdgens goes into it pretty heavily. You think that pathetic Crossfire Injection setup is better at going in a straight line than going through an AutoX? They spent years fine tuning the foundation of the suspension on these cars to make sure they handled well when released, and that only got better once the IROC package came out, since that was basically a handling package. And in 85 the fastest engine you could get was a whole 215 hp.

And...in 87 with a 350 TPI you just had to yank the TPI, put a carb and intake with a decent cam and it would run all over the mustang crowd. But the stangs weight advantage would to the same so you just had to accept the fact 350 cubes is better than 302

I knew of nobody that did that, thank God. Tuned Ports weren't a problem by then and were easy to work on. We had runners, chips, exhaust, cams, and just about anything else for mods. My buddies 87 ran in the 12's back then after he did all his mods to it. Biggest bang for the buck was putting 305 M&H tires in the rear. Real hard to turn those over, even with 3.70 gears.

There was plenty available to play with and then go out and hunt the streets. No need for a crappy carb/distributor change. Cars are easier to play with now but it wasn't too bad back then either.

Price wise a carb and intake is a easy upgrade that will tield WAY more than ported upper and lowers would ever give, not to mention no one has to burn a chip. But there are thise who just love the EFI...even though it doesnt do anything better than my carb with a TPI comparison, mileag might be better but poower is better with the carb. Unless you get the retarded epensive plenum. F that.

I'm not going LS_ for power only. I can make good power with a old SBC and a carb, etc. But, I can't take a stock SBC, install headers and a cat-back, a set of gears on an otherwise stock motor, have a dependable and reliable car with stock drivability and be in the high 12s and get 25+ mpg. With a LS1/T56 swap, I can. That's why I'm going this route. Not only will the car be quick, it will get good gas mileage, be easily drivable, and start every time I get in and not be worried to drive cross-country.

youll blow $3k+ on a genI sbc trying to compete with a stock LS1 with a big cam.

Or a LS1 with a mild-mid sized cam and good tune.

I love you guys....but nope. My 383 has 1000$ intake to oil pan, i kill LS1s. With cams i still stay ahead of them. So...no 3k to beat one. Hell, i have 250 in the whole car...and i still am doing it with a 2.73 gear. I did all the work myself to keep cost down so that helps. Machine work and all, 1000$.

yah but, you either knew people and had the connections or that engine is a ticking time bomb.............

it takes a healthy engine to stay ahead of an ls1, especially a properly cammed bolt on ls1...

I am new to this site and not very good on computers but I wanted to learn about these camaros.I had four of them but the floods in findlay ohio took two of them and badly damaged my most treasured one.The other is my wifes which I put a 454 big block in and have just fired it up but need to finish brakes (because I put a 12 bolt out of a chevelle in it) and some wiring before I take it on the road.Please let me know if I am doing this right and if anyone out there can hear me.Also how to make new threads.Thanks.

I just looked for deals. My 383 took a dump today, the #3 piston blew apart. I think hypereutectic pistons werent meant to go over 450 hp? Oh well, the rest of the motors will be with forged pieces. Live and learn, folks told me ther hypers would be OK...they were...for 4 months

I never use anything but forged pistons even in my street cars.You have to run them a little looser but I have never noticed any piston slap.Of course thats the beauty of a loud exhaust,you don't here much else.But of all my engines I havn't had any come apart .The only two I lost were due to changing rocker ratios and not pulling a head to recheck valve clearance.Whoda thunk?

Well, i have some folks thinking mine was a dropped valve, theese heads have been to 7k rpm and then some, i think i might have just got ahold of a bad piston...itll be running again in a couple weeks

An engine is an engine, only, the LSX engine comes from the factory with heads that already flow just as good with the majority of aftermarket heads for the SBC. All power is to be found in the cylinder heads, in conjunction with the rest of the valvetrain. Throw a set of Scoggin and Dickey SBC 2 heads on an L98, with the right cam, and you'll walk the same car (I imply same car in reference to using the same tranny and gears, as well as weight for comparison) sporting a crate LS7....

From going from an SBC to an LS1 I cant be happier. To give you an idea my 81 camaro with a decent mild build was a 13.9 second car. It was bloody heavy....lol

I had a 350 (2-bolt) since I was running only to 6200 rp
.020 shaved off the heads
performer intake
650 single feed double pumper carb
1.6 rockers
480/490 lift cam
9.5:1 compression
2400 stall
stock 350 turbo trans
3.90 posi
27 inch tall tire

Before my gears, carb swap, and converter it only ran 15.1 at 94.7 mph. Slowest 0-60 foot I have ever seen!...lol After the swap I ran 13.97@ 101. Not bad for a total of 7k invested in the whole car.

Since going to my LS1 M6 GTO I havent looked back. You can purchase these engine from JIM Pace for like $3400! I wanted more power and a meaner sound so I purchased a 3 inch chambered Stainless Works Dual cat back (installing an SAP rear that splits much like the 05/06 GTO). I also picked up some 243 LS2 heads (same as LS6 but without the same valves). Plus I got a CAI on order. When I swap heads I am going with 1.8 rockers and swapping out the pushrods. With a full dyno tune and the mods I listed I should get roughly (this is the shop figures where I am getting it done) 360 at the rears. If I put on some headers and mid pipes I will gain anout 20-25 at the rears.

Heads were $450 complete
Rockers are $500
Pushrods are $250
Headers are $350 (pacesetters..yes I am cheap)
Mid pipes are $175
Cat Back is $659
CAI is $235
Tune is $350
Labor is about $500

So for around $3500 I take my car up around 80 hp at the wheels. Lost ALMOST no gas mileage, used almost all stock parts (minus the rockers and pushrods which are better), and I can do the majority of the work in my own garage.

Can you build an SBC cheaper? HELL YES! But the pull from 5,000 rpms up with an LSx engine is just so much better than the older heads. Either way the chevy engine is easy to mod and halfway cheap if you shop around.

I do know that my STOCK LS1 GTO will not only beat my old camaro in the 1/4 but will fly past it from 80 mph on. Down low its close.

im nearly in the 9's with my stock LT1 shortblock. which has hypereutectic pistons.

Yea, i have come to the conclusion it was a dropped valve, sucks, i hope i can have the iron head fixed, a few folks told me that i could.

So that motor gets 440+ to the rear wheels? And the heads flow ~350/210? Impressive.

Ahh, so we're embellishing on our intelligence level for all to see, ehh? Maybe you need a tad more clarification on the example that I was making? Or, maybe your just not familiar about the particular Scoggin & Dickey cylinder heads that I'm referring to? Hmm....

^ Not surprised, ignorance, usually, enjoys and relates to its own company....

I was asking if a L98 - with the poor flowing TPI intake/exhaust - and those heads made that kind of power and if the heads produced those kinds of flow numbers (because I am unfamiliar with the Scoggin & Dickey cylinder heads you were referring too). LS7s have been shown to consistantly put down over 440+ to the wheels stock and the heads have been flow-benched and flow roughly 350 int/210 exh in their stock, unported form.
So, in order for the example you made to work, the engine would have to produce power number similar to the LS7 and to do that would require similar flow numbers unless it's boosted or has an enormous cam. But, as I recall, the LS7 cam is rather large when compared to most GM production cams.

Word.

So...?

telling someone to "throw" a set of sb2 heads on an otherwise stock TPI motor is ignorance. im sure the stock tpi intake will bolt right up, and you probabably wont have any problems with the stock pistons while running the big honkin cam. heck, even standard sbc header flanges should bolt right up to them, right?
aside from that, someone making 450rwhp with a set of sb2 heads is embarrassing. i can do that with an LT1 with ported stock castings and stock intake manifold.

Right, GM built the car to compete is autocross competitions? I never said they aren't good handling cars, I never said that from the factory they weren't decent handlers...when you have cars like the STi and others that are built specifically for autocross in mind my statement is completely valid.
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Was there any real reason to bump a thread that was over a year old?