So I tried to play with a red 3rd gen Z28 this morning a little, but couldn't get him to play along. Didn't figure it would happen, but just for future reference anyway...how in the world do you tell what came in it from the factory just by taking a quick look at the car?

well if it was a Z28 or Irocz, then it has a V8...305 or 350. 350 cars had 5.7liter tuned port injection on the back bumper i believe. 305's just had tuned port injection

I am not sure but I think all F-bodys that had 350's were hard tops and all T-Tops came with 305's.

Definetly Not.

Alot of going to depend on the body lines of the cars........ older 82-82 were more squared on the front fascia and came with 305's. Mid years I believe had some things like rear third brake light in the hatch these weren't very potent as well. Iroc Z's had some more punch to them and I believe came with the 350 TPi motor. Later models had much more aero looking components and were quicker yet. I am sure there is tons more on how to tell them apart but here a little bit.

yeah, my friend had an 88 IROC with t-tops with the 5.7 tpi in it

whoops

Z28/IROCs are easier to tell. On the rear bumper, it will say 5.7 Tuned port injection for the 350, and just Tuned Port Injection if it's a 5.0 Now some 350 owners might remove the 5.7 to play it coy, but why. That 5.7 is a peice of pride.

For Firebirds, unless it's a Formula there is no way to tell. Because on some year formulas they will say 'Formula 350' or just 'Formula' for the 5.0. GTAs and T/As don't tell. But I think most GTAs were the 350. I THINK.

I woulda played with ya Nic

Let me use my bottle and keep yours closed!

1983-1984 L69 T/A's have 5.0 Liter H.O. on the hood scoop.

Lack of a decal = LU5 or LG4

1985-1990 T/A's have a decal under the fender vent.

5.0 Liter H.O. = L69
5.0 Liter F.I. = LB9
5.7 Liter F.I. = L98

Lack of a decal = LG4 or LO3

GTA's have nothing.

Gahh!! I'm retarded. You are right. I was assuming he was asking about the 350 cars. Do they really have 5.7L for the L98 equipped Trans Ams (non GTA) under the fender vent?

Why? Theyre dogs. Anyway, yes a regular Trans Am could come with an L98 and have the "5.7 Liter F.I." decal under the air extractor.

Just stating facts old chap

Why no sig times for your L69?

Here's the difference with Camaro's. You'll have to ask someone else about Firebirds.

82-84 Camaro:

Nose and rear bumper is different. Ground effects are about 1/2" shorter all around than the 85-90 models. Will not have any IROC graphics on it. on the rear bumper it will either say "Z28", "Z28 5.0L H.O.", or "Z28 CrossFireInjection" It will also say this on the dash on the passenger side.
As each badge implies the difference, All were 305ci (5.0L) motors. The one that reads "Z28" should be an LG4 305, with a single 4 barrel Carb. Another was a setup of two single bore throttle bodies known as Cross Fire Injection which was RPO code LU5. THe last was the L69 RPO which was a "High Output" Carburated 305. It had a different cam profile than the regular LG4 305, a "dual snorkel" air cleaner, an it would be badged "Z28 5.0L H.O."

Its also important to note that all 1982 models came either with a Saginaw or Borg Warner 4 speed if a manual transmission was selected for the car. 83 and 84 models have a 5 speed Borg Warner.

There was also a fiberglass hood also had an solenoid activated "fresh air flapper" to allow air to enter the engine compartment. this hood is slightly conave near the center, an often is mistaken for the later "IROC" hood which will be discussed later. I believe this was universally available as an option on Z/28s, but was standard on all CrossFire Injected models.

85-89 Camaro:

In 1985-1987 you could order a Z/28 without the IROC graphics group on the Doors. 1988 was the first year that the IROC became standard when you bought a Z/28. All 1985-1986 IROC Z/28's had graphics that read "IROC". 1987-89 all Z/28's said "IROC-Z". 1985 Had no third brake light. 1986 Mounted it high on the glass of the rear hatch. 1987-1990 Mounted it in the spoiler. The taillights were different than the 82-84 models, having more of a flat "grid" pattern. RS camaros didn't get these "Grid" taillights from the factory until 1990. Also on all Z28's a Vented or "Lovured" hood was available, unlike the flapper hoods of earlier cars, it was steel and was otherwise flat except for the vents.

the LG4 and L69 Were Available in 1985 and 1986 Badged the same way the 82-84 models were. Only the LG4 Was available in 1987. Beginning in 1985 a 5.0L Tune Port Injected (TPI) motor was introduced it carried the RPO LB9. It was produced all the way until 1992. In 1987 a 350 was finally put back in the camaro, the first time a third gen had seen one from the factory. It was a Tune Port Injected motor that carried RPO L98. LB9 305 and L98 350 were available in 1988 along with a new "2 barrel" Fuel injected 305 known as TBI or "Throttle Body Injection" It was brought in as the Base V8 to replace the LG4. It carried the RPO LO3. In 1987 the motor options were as follows:

LG4 305---Badged as "Z28" in the rear bumper
LB9 305---Badged as "Z28 TunePortInjection" in rear bumper
L98 350---Badged as "Z28 5.7 TunePortInjection" rear bumper

In 1988 They were as follows:

LO3 305---Badged as "Z28" on the dash, bumper and ground effects
LB9 305---Badged as "Z28 TunePortInjection" on the bumper. On the Ground effects it would be badged "Iroc-z"
L98 350---Badged as "Z28 5.7 TunePortInjection" on the bumper. The Ground effects were also badged as "Iroc-z"

Its also important to note that in 1987-90 the LB9 and L98 models got 145mph spedometers while the LG4 only retained the 85mph spedometer. In 1988 the LO3 got a new 115mph spedometer. All camaros in 1988 came with a spoiler and ground effects, reguarless of model. With all Tune port injected motors, there was a "cold start" or "9th" injector that was eliminated in 1989. 1989-92 models also came standard with Vehicle Anti-Theft System or VATS, which used a small resistor in the key to allow the car to start. 1985 also saw the advent of the 16" IROC wheel.

1990 gets confusing, so from there on you'll have to check out the Tech Data articles on the main page.

wow chris you wrote a text book there... i think i will edit it a bit and make a firebird version.

as far as firebirds go:
82-83 firebird/Trans am:

Nose has a sharp point in the front. verry aggressive angles. NO GFX this early. no bumperets, but grill inserts in the nose. the trans ams were denoted with the "powerbulge" hood (functional on some CFI cars) and a black flat spoiler. will also have the T/A fender vents. these models, like the camaro have 305 CI carburated or CFI engines. the LG4 L69 and LU5. the CFI cars will usualy have "Fuel injection" on the doorhandles where as the others would say "Firebird" or "trans am". the powerbulge will also denote the engine. on L69 cars "5.0 Liter H.0" will be written on the side of the bulge.

Its also important to note that all 1982 models came either with a Saginaw or Borg Warner 4 speed if a manual transmission was selected for the car. 83+ models have a 5 speed Borg Warner.



84 firebird T/A:
GFX introduced, but a 1 year only design. NO foglights. bumper still has inserts but they are solid. same engine options remain. powerbulge hood remains, flat rear spoiler remains.

85-86 firebird T/A:
Aero package introduced. Trans ams now have a more intregrated GFX package, the "vented hood" and the aero wing wrap around spoiler.
Beginning in 1985 a 5.0L Tune Port Injected (TPI) motor was introduced it carried the RPO LB9. It was produced all the way until 1992. TPI cars MAY have "fuel injection" on the doorhandles. no other way to tell on stock models which 305 they have.

1987:
a 350 was finally put back in the fbody, the first time a third gen had seen one from the factory. It was a Tune Port Injected motor that carried RPO L98. LB9 only way to tell these apart form 86 models by look is that 87+ models have the 3rd brakelight in the rear wing, not stuck like a pimple to the top of the hatch. so if a T/A has a low 3rd light it MAY have a 350. no external badging to indicate.

1988:
305 and L98 350 were available along with a new "2 barrel" Fuel injected 305 known as TBI or "Throttle Body Injection" It was brought in as the Base V8 to replace the LG4. It carried the RPO LO3. TBI models MAY have "fuel injection" doorhandles. gm slapped them on alot of stuff. i have a bas model v6 car that has them.

1989-90
With all Tune port injected motors, there was a "cold start" or "9th" injector that was eliminated in 1989. 1989-92 models also came standard with Vehicle Anti-Theft System or VATS, which used a small resistor in the key to allow the car to start.
another important note: 1989 has an additional engin. the buick 3.8 liter turbo. only offered on TTA models. if you can't tell one of them from another fbody you deserve to have your *** handed to you by the fastest production 3rd gen

1991-92 new nose/bumper and GFX for trans ams. the "banshee" style. same engine options remain. all got a bit of a HP boost.

Probably because I havent run it at the track yet hotshot. I havent lost to a stock or near stock L98 yet. How do you like that? By the way...I just took a look at your site. If I spent as much money in mods as you have and only ran bottom 13's, Id probably hang myself. Do yourself a favor, throw that complete TPI setup in the garbage. Maybe youll trap a little better than 105mph.

i'll agree that our beloved L98s are dogs, iam sure thats what you ment. but not ALL 5.7L v8s are dogs, like the LS1 and 6s.

I did mean L98's are dogs...thats why I said it. I never said the LSx engines were. If thats what I though, thats what I would have said.

i know.

Yeah, what was I thinking doing suspension and transmission mods before rebuilding the old tired L98 and hitting it with some Procharged boost. The only TPI L98's you're beating are when you're driving the Dart or Chevelle. I doubt you'll get out of the 15's with the L69 especially in the desert.

Not true, I just ran my stock 111,XXX mile, L69 today for the first time ever at a drag strip, in the desert (Phoenix), and I did a 15.09. I have never drag raced at a track before either. My 60 foots were crap though, 2.3. If I get those lower, should be seeing high 14's.

All stock? I see full exhaust in your sig. It's not too shabby but you're still in the 15's, like I said. My full exhaust L69 MC SS was almost a second slower with a tad few more miles so I know what a dog the L69 really is. Just to put this in perspective, my truly bone stock '94 LT1 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon ran a 15.1, wood panels and all!

Kind of funny that L98's are dogs and LS1's are awesome and I was running within a tenth of a pair of LS1 Camaro's at the track last Saturday. Guess my motor must've missed the the memo that it's a dog. But I'm sure everyone will make 100 and 1 excuses about how the LS1 cars must've been messed up/ bad driver/ etc. etc. I just get so tired of hearing this crap it's unreal. Both of these motors have plenty of potential.

You must be some kind of an idiot son. Ive had many L69's that were running VERY low 14's and one well into the 13's N/A. Not stock of sourse, but damn close to it. Why dont you figure out what youre talking about before you come around here trying to waste my time. Oh and by the way, I need to see a video of that boat anchor running a 13.1 to even somewhat believe it. Because you sir, are full of it.

If I had a dollar for every L69 F-body I saw running 16's at the same track I went 13.1, I'd have a new engine and a Procharger. No video but I can direct plenty of third gen locals that know my car and it's abilities. Several board members were in attendance at Thunder In The North when I was running 13.4's @ 102 in 80 degrees and 80 percent humidity on radials. Sig times were in much better air on ET Streets. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a TPI manifold likes cool air but hey some people only know them thar carbs. I'll stick with my junk fuel injection. Thanks! You do realize that there are heads, cam L98's still running that terrible TPI manifold that trap what your big block Chevelle does, right? Did I mention Preston Smith's 9 second 305 Turbo'd IROC with yes you guessed it, TPI. Before you make yourself look like the stereotypical 3rd gen owner by putting some half witted line at the end of your sig, do a little research.

Son? I've got ten years on you Jr. It's OK, I'm sure you just gave up on TPI when you couldn't figure out where the jets went.

ya id love to see an l69 beat his z28 he raced one on the freeway and roasted it the l69 car beat me but then again i do only have tbi
his z runs consistantly in the 13s its not flukes and mind you his engine is stock on the inside and has over 200000 miles

but if 13s are for cars that are dogs then damn what makes every one want ls1 cars they only run 13s at best so then ls engines are also dogs then

hell he would tear up your l69 with his woody wagon

LOL! Yeah Id love to see it bub. Ive had many TPI cars and I am aware of their strong points and weak points. Im also aware of the fact that "TPI likes cool air". If you knew anything, youd know that any engine likes a cooler, denser intake charge. If I had a million dollars for every L98 car I saw break into the 13's...id be broke. I get a real big kick out of how you brought up my Chevelle. I have $900 into that 454 including machine work and what I paid for the motor, and it is extremely streetable and passes emissions all running stock oval port heads. Somebody please shut me up and run anywhere near that quick with a TPI car for that amount of money. And I dont give 2 ****s about a FORCED INDUCTION TPI car running 9's. Thats not N/A now is it? I dont care about these rare times someone comes out of the woodwork and has a decent running TPI car. I havent seen it myself. But The TPI intake manifold setup is not a good one. They produce excellent torque, but even with aftermarket runners, base, TB, and ported plenums...wheres the power over 5200? No thanks, ill take an aftermarket FI system or a carb anyday of the week over a TPI. I am GM master certified, and ASE master certified....so Im pretty sure I understand the principals of an internal combustion engine and modifying it for performance. You wanna go dump all that money into youre boat anchor and be stuck supposedly in the 13's? Be my guest hoss. Tell you what...why dont you go waste $70 on another airfoil? Get lost hotshot. Go ahead and PM some more of your OH buddies and get them to vouch for your worn out garbage. Unless I see a video of that car running anywhere 13's, youre just blowing smoke up everybodys ***.
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Mighty strong words coming from someone with a 2.73 geared LB9 and an L03. LOL! Get lost. Talk to me when you get out of the 17's.

btw my stock tbi ran 16.2 and that was before i noticed my timeing was set 2* retard

but ya l69 car just blow me away ya bearly

why would you want to make power over 5200 in a tpi thats practicly redline

ya lets over rev the engine then wonder why it makes not power up there hummm

ya wow an 84 l69 wow 190 hp and 240 tq 3.73
91 l98 245 hp and 345 tq 3.23
91 lo3 170 hp and 255 tq 2.73 humm i wonder why mine would be the slowest stock

Blu91Z28 speaks the truth. His car is a true confuser. It runs like a bat outta HeII I've seen it and it is truely impressive for the lack of mods yet faster and faster. Hey Jay, Maybe on that 12 sec run you'll throw a rod in victory after the pass lol

If you see this between the taillights, it has a V6 and is slow..............

Lol, yeah all engines like cooler denser air but it's a little more noticeable when the air has to travel over 20" on average from the TB to the valve. That's cool you've got $900 in the big block but another local has less than 3 Grand total in a 4g63 swapped Dodge Colt that goes bottom 10's @148, very traction limited. If I wanted to go fast for cheap I'd have a LC2 swapped Chevy Monza. What exactly are the emission standards for a '68 Chevelle in AZ? They're exempt here in OH. No 13 second L98's, huh? I guess you don't read the drag forum very often. You must not be much of a Master Mechanic if you couldn't follow the simple hot rodding rules and get your Tuned Ports to run. It's all in the basics, Jr.

Oh, I graduated from Lincoln Technical Institute in Chicago way back in '90. Do I get a cookie?

Apologies Nic for the thread Hijack. Sometimes you have to keep these clowns in line.

One can only hope, Matt!

Keep these clowns inline? WTF? You said you doubt an L69 would break out of the 15's in the desert. You never said it had to be stock. So my exhaust mod shouldn't matter. My motor is all stock. From the dual snorkels, to the oil pan. I just need better tires and some practice and I bet I hit 14's. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you. I'm just telling you that you are wrong and an L69 can get out of the 15's, stock.

Damn, I cant believe how many stupid people are around me! I never said you couldnt get TPI cars to run. But for the dollar put into it compared to the result, youd have to be an idiot to waste your time with it. You obviously dont read the forums if you dont realize how restrictive the TPI intake setup is...especially on a 350. Why dont you come on down to AZ, and Ill keep YOUR *** in line. I guarantee you if we were to run at a track, you wouldnt have any more than 2 cars on me. Whats the matter? You pissed becaue an archaic old CARBED 305 is capable of running with you?

And by the way....my old 84 15th Anniversary ran 14.84 @90mph bone stock, from the air cleaner to the muffler. L69/ 5-speed car. Beat it Jr. Like I said, come back when you have half a clue what youre talking about.

No, it doesn't have to be stock. I was referring to you calling your car "all stock" when it most definitely has bolt-ons. "All stock" would be exhaust manifolds, cats and the factory cat-back. According to you, my car would be "all stock" as well. It has nothing internally done engine wise. Correct me if I'm wrong but you did say you're still in the 15's, right?

there are low 12 second TPI cars. 383 tpi cars could make upwards of 350whp n/a. some more with tuning and bigger cams. i wouldnt down play the TPI system that much. its not a great setup but its definately no slouch when done right

and L98's are not dogs. high 13's with nothing more than exhaust and converter. gears/slicks is mid 13's. thats not bad at all.

Yes, im running 15.09, but that doesn't mean I won't go 14's, which was your statement. Thats what I am trying to get at. Whatever, when I run it, I'll post my slips to show you that an L69 went 14.XX in the desert. Thats all I'm trying to prove. Peace.

I'll tell you what I realize. YOU put an ignorant line at the end of your sig to rub other people the wrong way on a message board. YOU called the L98 a dog knowing full well it would piss someone off. The bottom line is this, if the mods in your sig are all that you have, I'll be 2 cars out by the 330 mark. It's only going to get uglier from there! My local track closes this coming weekend. If weather permits, I will most definitely be there and I'll be sure to bring a camera.

www.dragway42.com

Although I understand what your saying, and that L98's can be very strong runners, this is really besides the point though. I have to agree with 84L69TA. Having a similiar L98 (or 383, 406 etc., for that matter), w/exhaust and converter, but tossing it's TPI system, in favor for carb, you'll run even better times at the track. That's not to say that the stock TPI system is bad, it's just more limited in comparison with a carburetor. But hey, that's what the HSR is for...

Actually, those arent the only mods done to my 84. So dream on. Also, out here every car 1967 and newer has go be emissions tested. Now...anything else?

Actually two things:

1) Since your other screen names IdroolforTPI and TPI4lyf are banned are you working on this one too?

2)You're a real popular guy in the classified feedback forum!

Anytime you want a shot at the title, you let me know punk

By the looks of it, I'd have to stand in line!

The mods need to just lock this, it's pointless.

This is funny, someone calling someone else that is 10 years older a "punk". Now that's priceless.

Being a punk has nothing to do with age. If the sh!t fits, wear it.