Theoretical and Street RacingUse this board to ask questions about street racing, discuss your street races, and "who would win?" questions. Keep it safe.
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A guy I work with thinks his car will run all over mine, when he doesnt even know what a Cam is when I explained what mine has in it...
Who would win in a lil drag race?
Opponet car, 2000 Trans am WS6 M6
Mods:
flowmaster catback, hyprtech tuner.
my car. 1986 Firebird V6 swapped to a 350 V8
Mods:
Gutted interior
TH350 trans, with a 1800 stall and B&M stage 2 shift kit
355 4bolt block. 9:1 compression, old l-82 vette heads, with 2.02/1.6 valves, ported by a shop
edelbrock performer intake(ported to)
I have a special cam, its a remake of the one from the old 350CI/350HP cam when the 350 first came out. i dont have the specs. its a nice cam, good low and mid end and some high end probably 2200-6000 rpm would be a good guess of its power ranger, kinda a lopey idle to.
full MSD igntion
Non CC Q-jet
Heddman hedders to a 3" ypipe no cat and a 3" flowmaster catback
3.42 posi rear end (wasnt posi before)
electric CSR water pump
NO A/C only a alternator and PS putting drag on the engine.
Who would smoke who?
Im only asking cause my car is still off the road due to oil pump problems....R&R is in progress
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I think he will edge you out. What are the exact specs of the cam you have? Typically, older "famous grinds" are very outdated and have lazy ramp rates and were designed in a time where cam technology was pretty primitive. Lope means nothing other than you likely have a narrow LSA (typical of old flat tappet and carb intended grinds). Your car has a solid weight advantage over his and there is always the driver mod that can come into factor. Assuming both cars are driven well though (no spinning, no miss shifts) I think he will pull you pretty good. Fear not. You are a simple cam swap (even a modern cam grind with the same specs as the cam you have now will make far more power) away from a solid 20+ or more gain, even with the heads you have. I wouldn't rush to irrational and expensive ideas such as adding a blower. That is far more expensive than a simple cam swap. Sure the gains are much higher but no one just "adds" a blower like it is a simple mod. In the future you could buy a set of worked vortec heads (like ones from Scoggin Dickey or GMPP) and combine that with an appropriate vortec intake, components (timing chain, springs, lifters etc) and cam and add a solid 50 to 100 hp over your current set-up for under $1000. You have a solid foundation to make power so if he beats you I would not get too worked up over it. The ease of ability to improve on your current set-up far outweighs the pain of a loss.
I think he will edge you out. What are the exact specs of the cam you have? Typically, older "famous grinds" are very outdated and have lazy ramp rates and were designed in a time where cam technology was pretty primitive. Lope means nothing other than you likely have a narrow LSA (typical of old flat tappet and carb intended grinds). Your car has a solid weight advantage over his and there is always the driver mod that can come into factor. Assuming both cars are driven well though (no spinning, no miss shifts) I think he will pull you pretty good. Fear not. You are a simple cam swap (even a modern cam grind with the same specs as the cam you have now will make far more power) away from a solid 20+ or more gain, even with the heads you have. I wouldn't rush to irrational and expensive ideas such as adding a blower. That is far more expensive than a simple cam swap. Sure the gains are much higher but no one just "adds" a blower like it is a simple mod. In the future you could buy a set of worked vortec heads (like ones from Scoggin Dickey or GMPP) and combine that with an appropriate vortec intake, components (timing chain, springs, lifters etc) and cam and add a solid 50 to 100 hp over your current set-up for under $1000. You have a solid foundation to make power so if he beats you I would not get too worked up over it. The ease of ability to improve on your current set-up far outweighs the pain of a loss.
thanks for your kind advice I appreciate it. This is my first engine build, im still amazed it hasnt spun a bearing or deveolped a bad noise, lol. I know what you mean about its not as simple as "throwing a blower on it". if it was that simple and cheap I would have a 572 BB not some 350 i pulled out of a truck
I have looked into those vortec heads, are they really that much better then older non vortecs? your talking about the cast iron vortecs right? GMPP sells those on jegs, and aluminum ones to but aluminum heads are too much for me right now.
on the cam subject, i know what you mean by old technology in the one i have but it was a budget move, i spend 56$ on a cam and lifter set from sealed power(federal moguel/speed pro) Vs a more expensive cam
but I do plan on a comp cams 268H cam when I switch heads.
Hey man you might not beat that WS6 but dont get upset. You've gone along way from that v6 sounds like a good bulid to me. This is how I look at it how much was his 00 WS6 and mods? How much was your camaro and what you've put in it? I have a 85 Z/28 305 I droped a 350 I pulled out of a 71 Z/28 kinda like your bulid with DH cast Iron heads and I love it when I beat, neck and neck or just get nosed out buy cars costing 20,000 25,000 or more and are 2000 + models with "new technology" let us no what happens.
__________________
85' z28, 355, 700r4 with shift kit, Jet hot Pacestter headers, flowmaster catback,Edelbrock RPM,Comp cam
TH350 trans, with a 1800 stall and B&M stage 2 shift kit
9:1 compression, old l-82 vette heads, with 2.02/1.6 valves
Non CC Q-jet...
In my honest opinion (provided the heads were ported right), it is because of these three area's in which he's going to edge you out, if he knows how to launch and shift that thing. You'll definitely want to go higher with the stall. Also, don't be afraid of compression, it could be your best friend if you know how to tune an engine. Consider bumping up the compression some. That non-CC QuadraBog has to go. Consider a much better, more linear carburetor. Could toss out some idea's for you, but it would be useless not knowing the cam's full specs, as well as final compression levels. I see setups similar to yours taking out stock LS1's all the time, and yes, I speak from the opposite end of such an experience....
__________________ 1998 Trans Am: Mystic Blue w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Daily Driver.... 1990 Trans Am GTA: Black w/Black Leather, 5-Speed, T-Tops, Few Mods.... 1989 Trans Am TTA: White w/Tan Leather, Automatic, T-Tops, Garage Queen.... 1986 Chevy Camaro V6: Blue w/Black Cloth, Hardtop, 355-TPI Swap, 700R4, MS-II....
In my honest opinion (provided the heads were ported right), it is because of these three area's in which he's going to edge you out, if he knows how to launch and shift that thing. You'll definitely want to go higher with the stall. Also, don't be afraid of compression, it could be your best friend if you know how to tune an engine. Consider bumping up the compression some. That non-CC QuadraBog has to go. Consider a much better, more linear carburetor. Could toss out some idea's for you, but it would be useless not knowing the cam's full specs, as well as final compression levels. I see setups similar to yours taking out stock LS1's all the time, and yes, I speak from the opposite end of such an experience....
I hope the heads were ported right, lol just kidding. it costed me a lot to have it done, it was done by a local high performance shop, kinda small but all nice guys in there. same place were my block was machined. they took the valves out to they said and grounded somehting down in there.
The Q jet is one of the first things im ditching, I have a holley 750 DP waiting a rebuild and its good to go.
I got the cam specs for the EXACT one I have. What do you suggest I do with my compression? I can easily have the heads milled, im justy worried about detenoation.
Vortec heads, aim for 9.5:1 compression.
The cam you have is ok, but maybe get some 1:6 ratio roller rockers to bump up the valve lift.
Keep the qjet, but have it rebuilt if not done so already.
Tune, tune, tune.
Lower control arms, panhard bar, and decent tires, and I think you might be able to edge him out.
If he gets traction and knows how to drive a M6, you'll probably lose. If he spins, you'll probably win. If he goes to the track a lot or knows how to drive, your in trouble. From a roll your a dead duck, if he has a clue.
Decent M6 LS1, drivers will hit mid 13's with ease. Good M6 Drivers will be low 13's or high 12's. My 99 T/A as a bolt on car with base lid & cat back, ran 13.47 @ 108.5 mph on a poor 2.37 60ft time. A good M6 driver (ie not me) could have put the car in the ~12.9 to 13.0 at the track with a ~2.0 60ft time.
Put a 100 shot on your car, get a good launch with traction and then spray it in 2nd, and you should put him away with ease, even if he's an excellent M6 pilot.
Good Luck, & I hope he spins.
Last edited by Arctic White 91 RS; 07-21-2007 at 08:40 PM.
If he gets traction and knows how to drive a M6, you'll probably lose. If he spins, you'll probably win. If he goes to the track a lot or knows how to drive, your in trouble. From a roll your a dead duck, if he has a clue.
Decent M6 LS1, drivers will hit mid 13's with ease. Good M6 Drivers will be low 13's or high 12's. My 99 T/A as a bolt on car with base lid & cat back, ran 13.47 @ 108.5 mph on a poor 2.37 60ft time. A good M6 driver (ie not me) could have put the car in the ~12.9 to 13.0 at the track with a ~2.0 60ft time.
Put a 100 shot on your car, get a good launch with traction and then spray it in 2nd, and you should put him away with ease, even if he's an excellent M6 pilot.
Good Luck, & I hope he spins.
Thanks for that info! the guy isnt a very good manual driver, hes had the car for 3 months, and really only knows how to shift doesnt know anything about launching it or racing. I can almost bet he spins, lol.
The race should be very soon, I had to R&R my melling oil pump cause the casing was cracking, giving me some very low oil flow, good thing i noticed it. almost fell victim to the crappy melling casing, got a Milodon now, ready to roll
I have an 87 with a 350 also. Yesterday I picked up a 02 and drove 190 miles back home. The diffrence is staggering. I have never been pushed in a seat harder then when I launched. The cars are made better and technology does a lot more with a little. Even the 4 cyl 07 saturn surprised me with how quick it was. But the 02 is just brutal power. Good luck. Hell, even my wifes 07 trailblazer is 320 hp.
I appreciate it. This is my first engine build, im still amazed it hasnt spun a bearing or deveolped a bad noise, lol. I know what you mean about its not as simple as "throwing a blower on it". if it was that simple and cheap I would have a 572 BB not some 350 i pulled out of a truck 
