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__________________ 1989 RS Orignally V-6
Upgrading to 350, all drivetrain, and weight reduction, pretty much upgrade everything shooting for 350-400 RWHP
You do know that honda's are competitive with us with less then half our literage and have much more structural rigidity to them then any 3rd gen while often weighing a half ton less then us right?? and that an s2000 is rwd not fwd? just the facts, i'm not a honda fan at all but there comes a point in your driving life where you must know your enemy instead of hurling unbased insults at them.
The typical honda formula for success:
Less weight, then less weight again
Less literage better heads=less weight same power
all high end tq so that your paperweight *** can leave the line without spinning to bad then pull hard up top.
It's cheap and kind of effective, in the game of "good cheap fast" pick two, they tend to go with good and cheap
Now as a counter point, nissan's formula for success
More Traction, then some more traction
The best powercurves you'll find in the world for the price
Lots of power and medium to high weight(stilll as light or lighter then us)
Moregood and fast, but they really do build an amazing sports car
Now, our method of success:
Cheap bodies that flex like a pancake, a crap load of torque, and traction if you're damn good/lucky,
Chevy puicked cheap and fast, and that's the american way lol..
I'd hate to say hondas are competitive with just third generation camaros. Power to weight is more important than just weight itself. For a low or relativly low price one can make a small or big block chevy very powerful, as compared to a honda motor.
As far as nissan goes. The 350z is slower than the last v8 camaros and firebirds. I don't think the 350z is anywhere near the quality or performance of a cts-v, c6 vette, or gto. For the most part I think fast, cheap, and good by far goes to American car companies. I think America builds an amazing sportscar. The z06 is proof of tha, aswell as many other cars to come.
america's formula= get a good efficient, powerful engine, make it BIGGER, end of story (basicly) ex:HEMI (426) , 409, Rat (427) , ford 427 (i dont care about ford,idont know what its called), all are based origonaly on smaller engines
everywhere else's formula= add cylenders, addpower adder, make the engine more efficient/powerful
If this is the video of the Fbody launching and the rear end falling out...
Seriousely if you don't realize it is crappy welds, and poor craftsmanship that caused that, dear god... just keep thinking it makes SOOOO much power, the rear end fell out!
Im not laughing at all,I had the driveshaft come out at the sixty foot mark,turned the car sidways,and I hit the gaurd rail,wiping out the whole right hand side of my car,a couple years ago!!!!!
Day started out just fine ,ended up costing $3000 in repair,breaking stuff isnt funny to me!!!!!
__________________ 355 small block,dartII heads with 205 valves,200 cc ,lunati cams,545/545-315/315,1.6 roller rockers,flowtech headers,toqurer 2 intake,1 in spacer,800cfm carb,keith black true flat tops,eagle steel crank,eagle steel rods,windgage tray,screened oil returns,balanced, 200 hp top shot nitrous kit 2 stage,100 hp 1st stage,100 hp 2nd stage
You do know that honda's are competitive with us with less then half our literage and have much more structural rigidity to them then any 3rd gen while often weighing a half ton less then us right?? and that an s2000 is rwd not fwd? just the facts, i'm not a honda fan at all but there comes a point in your driving life where you must know your enemy instead of hurling unbased insults at them.
The typical honda formula for success:
Less weight, then less weight again
Less literage better heads=less weight same power
all high end tq so that your paperweight *** can leave the line without spinning to bad then pull hard up top.
It's cheap and kind of effective, in the game of "good cheap fast" pick two, they tend to go with good and cheap
Now as a counter point, nissan's formula for success
More Traction, then some more traction
The best powercurves you'll find in the world for the price
Lots of power and medium to high weight(stilll as light or lighter then us)
Moregood and fast, but they really do build an amazing sports car
Now, our method of success:
Cheap bodies that flex like a pancake, a crap load of torque, and traction if you're damn good/lucky,
Chevy puicked cheap and fast, and that's the american way lol..
just some thoughts
those cars are all turds.....the day i lose to anyone of them, i'll hang it up for good
lol......on the street? when street-driven honda's hit 4-digit horsepower and they invent a driveline thats capable of handling half that much torque....MAYBE i'd be worried......but even still, it'd be uncontrollable and traction would not exist.
Seriousely if you don't realize it is crappy welds, and poor craftsmanship that caused that, dear god... just keep thinking it makes SOOOO much power, the rear end fell out!
lol......on the street? when street-driven honda's hit 4-digit horsepower and they invent a driveline thats capable of handling half that much torque....MAYBE i'd be worried......but even still, it'd be uncontrollable and traction would not exist.
i'll just pass them doing a wheelie
we use axles not drive lines... who sayed anything about street driving? btw we dont need 4 digit hp numbers to push our cars. we might not get traction off the bat but we will catch you down the track... also there is supras and other high end jap cars that have no problem launching off the line. take a look at the AWD dsm's and rear wheel cars.
here is some honda axles that will handle your four digit numbers
we use axles not drive lines... who sayed anything about street driving? btw we dont need 4 digit hp numbers to push our cars. we might not get traction off the bat but we will catch you down the track... also there is supras and other high end jap cars that have no problem launching off the line. take a look at the AWD dsm's and rear wheel cars.
here is some honda axles that will handle your four digit numbers
ya, they make those for vipers too......when street driven 1.8L engines make that kind of power on pump gas, i'll look into it.
no one "catches" anyone down the track, if you lose the 60', you lose the race......with evenly matched power anyhow......so already being at a disadvantage in that dept........its kind of hard to catch a car down the track thats going 150mph........theres like 10 supra's in the free world that have any traction.....DSM? ya there are some REAL fast ones up here.....some of them are SORT of close, very few of them are into the deep nines though.....and those are normally race cars.
you're not talking to some idiot kid with a 300hp car dude, i've been in this game for a long time......i know whats out there
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed
you still exist? sorry I just thought you dropped off the boards.
and yeah the guy who puts 827 to wheels should have to worry about many hondas. for matter you woulndn't have to worry about a lot of cars.
hey man whats up haha......i'm still around.
ya, that was with the car running like a** too, it was only at 20psi then and it wouldnt rev past 6500 for some reason.......7500rpm, and 30psi will make short work of that number.
Last edited by 383backinblack; 01-02-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i didn't say they were good and yea sorry but the third gens claim to fame is body flex. i've hit up other forums an if they know anything bout them they know they flex, our bodies literaly seperate above the side window, it's rare to see a hardtop without that crack. if we didn't flex why would subframe connectors be such a big mod?
Nissan is amazing don't care what you say. 890 hp still has to worry bout a bevy of 1000hp awd skylines. it's been done quite a bit. did i mention street driven?? hell i bet a 600 hp skyline would give you a damn good run, off the line it'll kill followed by the second turbo, phooooshh.
i didn't say they were good and yea sorry but the third gens claim to fame is body flex. i've hit up other forums an if they know anything bout them they know they flex, our bodies literaly seperate above the side window, it's rare to see a hardtop without that crack. if we didn't flex why would subframe connectors be such a big mod?
Nissan is amazing don't care what you say. 890 hp still has to worry bout a bevy of 1000hp awd skylines. it's been done quite a bit. did i mention street driven?? hell i bet a 600 hp skyline would give you a damn good run, off the line it'll kill followed by the second turbo, phooooshh.
im not on these threads to bash v8s and third gens i own one for sake. i come here to get tech information and share. i just like sticking me head in these threads to help some people realize there is more than whats in there R_E_D_N_E_C_K backyard. i am pretty sure rockit is on the same page. i personally like the idea of owning a import because we are the underdogs. we have half the displacement of you guys... just like i am sure you would like to trash talk to the super car people as well. people with v12's and v10's. dont get me wrong i like all cars and all types..
i didn't say they were good and yea sorry but the third gens claim to fame is body flex. i've hit up other forums an if they know anything bout them they know they flex, our bodies literaly seperate above the side window, it's rare to see a hardtop without that crack. if we didn't flex why would subframe connectors be such a big mod?
Nissan is amazing don't care what you say. 890 hp still has to worry bout a bevy of 1000hp awd skylines. it's been done quite a bit. did i mention street driven?? hell i bet a 600 hp skyline would give you a damn good run, off the line it'll kill followed by the second turbo, phooooshh.
I don't have any body flex issues.....weird, must be 'cause i know what im doing
thats pretty much expected drivel, from someone that watches too much tv, and doesnt spend enough time at the race track. I've seen pretty much everything the world has to offer at the dragstrip.....
and im not saying it CAN'T happen......but i am saying it DOESN'T happen.......its extremely rare (alot more rare than people would have you believe).......if i had a buck, for every supra/DSM etc that showed up at New England Dragway that was a 9sec car.....and "wasn't running right"......or...."had tuning issues that night"........etc etc etc etc.....i'd be a VERY rich person.
It happens, but its ALOT more uncommon than people would have you believe.........why? look at the power that a supra makes for example........now take that engine, basically double it in size.........make 30psi with DOUBLE the air flow, and see what you get
sometimes people would rather run their mouth on the internet than get embarassed at the race track.
1000hp awd cars are a JOKE on a drag strip..........have been for DECADES........awd is a sad, sad, sad joke when it comes to drag racing beyond the 11sec mark..........grow up dude. you really need to stop bench racing, and go to the track for real.....if you did you'd have a much better idea of reality.
a 600HP awd skyline would get F****** ROASTED from a launch by my car......id LOVE to see that car pull a low 1.4sec short time.......that would be a video for comical history........if you think AWD is where its at, at the drag strip........just stop caring about cars now and play with barbies.....thats asinine
a bevy of 1000hp awd skylines. it's been done quite a bit. did i mention street driven?? hell i bet a 600 hp skyline would give you a damn good run, off the line it'll kill followed by the second turbo, phooooshh.
Yes, those skylines that make 1000hp and run 12's and 13's.
Now as a counter point, nissan's formula for success
More Traction, then some more traction
The best powercurves you'll find in the world for the price
Lots of power and medium to high weight(stilll as light or lighter then us)
Moregood and fast, but they really do build an amazing sports car
Now, our method of success:
Cheap bodies that flex like a pancake, a crap load of torque, and traction if you're damn good/lucky,
Chevy puicked cheap and fast, and that's the american way lol...
I cannot stand it when people compare twenty year old frames to newer, more advanced chassis designs. Your honestly looking to compare a "Nissan Skyline" to an F-Body, then compare one of them with this....;
Here's a 4th generation Trans Am, single turbo, IN FULL STREET TRIM, 17" Rims on RADIAL TIRES, DAILY DRIVEN, running a 9.05 @ 155 mph (Click Here, then Click Here)! Show me any Honda, or even a Nissan "Skyline" that can do that....
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA "Conan": 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
I cannot stand it when people compare twenty year old frames to newer, more advanced chassis designs. Your honestly looking to compare a "Nissan Skyline" to an F-Body, then compare one of them with this....;
Here's a 4th generation Trans Am, single turbo, IN FULL STREET TRIM, 17" Rims on RADIAL TIRES, DAILY DRIVEN, running a 9.05 @ 155 mph (Click Here, then Click Here)! Show me any Honda, or even a Nissan "Skyline" that can do that....
very very nice. i think i need to take a cold shower.
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i agree with streetleathal on the situation. you are compairing an 80 something car to a newer car. i think there will be a difference in those frames is you look at them. if you want to compair a newer import frame to an american muscle car compair its frame to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBzkvouQDx8
Last edited by bob8703; 02-07-2008 at 10:28 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I cannot stand it when people compare twenty year old frames to newer, more advanced chassis designs. Your honestly looking to compare a "Nissan Skyline" to an F-Body, then compare one of them with this....;
Here's a 4th generation Trans Am, single turbo, IN FULL STREET TRIM, 17" Rims on RADIAL TIRES, DAILY DRIVEN, running a 9.05 @ 155 mph (Click Here, then Click Here)! Show me any Honda, or even a Nissan "Skyline" that can do that....
^ The difference there is that that particular VR4 more than likely had some pretty extensive work done to it though, whereas the Mighty Mouse Trans Am didn't. I'm not arguing that the F-Body is the only capeable ride to hit 9's, as it's been proven many moons ago that any car can run the numbers. However, I am arguing that the newer "cheap bodies that flex like a pancake" F-Body chassis, in comparison with "Nissan's formula for success", is an absolute joke. The Mighty Mouse Trans Am will be seeing 8's this year simply by upping the boost, and, as far as I'm concerned, there aren't too many Imports running 8's in FULL STREET TRIM, on a 17" rim w/drag radial, not to mention w/factory weight....
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA "Conan": 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
Last edited by Street Lethal; 02-09-2008 at 09:56 AM.
^ The difference there is that that particular VR4 more than likely had some pretty extensive work done to it though, whereas the Mighty Mouse Trans Am didn't. I'm not arguing that the F-Body is the only capeable ride to hit 9's, as it's been proven many moons ago that any car can run the numbers. However, I am arguing that the newer "cheap bodies that flex like a pancake" F-Body chassis, in comparison with "Nissan's formula for success", is an absolute joke. The Mighty Mouse Trans Am will be seeing 8's this year simply by upping the boost, and, as far as I'm concerned, there aren't too many Imports running 8's in FULL STREET TRIM, on a 17" rim w/drag radial, not to mention w/factory weight....
excuses excuses. you first say one thing thne say another
btw I wouldn't call adding a turbo to an N/A car just a simple bolt on in it's own right. I really wouldn't call a car that was N/A to start but now with a turbo, aftermarket injection, air to water intercooler, dished pistons helping the moter run at 8.2:1 compression, an aftermarket .601/.594" 236/231 cam, using a set of aftermarket all pro heads that have been ported/polished, larger then stock displacement using a motor that does not even come stock in that car for that matter. that's not counting the suspension work that has been done on top of that like the 12 bolt moser rear rear and stuff. I really wouldn't call that just a mild modded car but I would say that is fairly extensive as far as how many mods have been done. unless I'm looking at a different mighty mouse and it's not the one owned by david childress. that or my info is either old (easily could be) or is a new engine that instead that he is using.
also those tires used are drag radials not just standard everyday radials. granted you can use them as such but I would say there is quite a difference between them.
Yeah, 4th Gen's make easy 9 second rides. The Mighty Mouse Trans Am is extraordinary, but this one is just as impressive though, Click Here....
man i love that stuff i cant wait to get mine up there. im working on some sponcerships so i can afford mods on mine. but i cant do those now cause im what you call a poor bastard . the big one is AC Delco they want me to send them a buch of info.
btw I wouldn't call adding a turbo to an N/A car just a simple bolt on in it's own right....
But it is though. Also, you don't want to go there (in reference to the need for boost). I can post many video's of naturally aspirated LS1's running deep into the tens. Show me any street legal Import, in full street trim, minus turbo, running similar times. Again, it's not about "engine" modifications, the discussion/comparison is about the F-Body chassis, not it's factory drivetrain, because I would be the first to admit that the stock rears are a complete joke....
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed
I really wouldn't call a car that was N/A to start but now with a turbo, aftermarket injection, air to water intercooler, dished pistons helping the moter run at 8.2:1 compression, an aftermarket .601/.594" 236/231 cam, using a set of aftermarket all pro heads that have been ported/polished, larger then stock displacement using a motor that does not even come stock in that car for that matter....
Again though, this wasn't the debate, the frame was. I'm not here to say that an LS1 will run nine's naturally aspirated, on stock tires. It obviously can't, so stop trying to redirect the arguement....
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7speed
also those tires used are drag radials not just standard everyday radials....
v Could have sworn that I already pointed that out in the words that you quoted from me above....;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
there aren't too many Imports running 8's in FULL STREET TRIM, on a 17" rim w/drag radial, not to mention w/factory weight...
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA "Conan": 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
eh so sue me I was reading part of your first "original" quote about the radials. the one where you posted the link
the frame of the fbody isn't known for being very stiff as is off the factory floor. granted usually an easy fix for something they should of done from the factory though with sub frame connectors. most anyone though seems to agree though with them being weak stock
im not on these threads to bash v8s and third gens i own one for sake. i come here to get tech information and share. i just like sticking me head in these threads to help some people realize there is more than whats in there R_E_D_N_E_C_K backyard. i am pretty sure rockit is on the same page. i personally like the idea of owning a import because we are the underdogs. we have half the displacement of you guys... just like i am sure you would like to trash talk to the super car people as well. people with v12's and v10's. dont get me wrong i like all cars and all types..
WOW, Someone with such $h!++y grammar skills has the nerve to call anyone out on being a *******... Also I don't even care how fast any other car can be made, if it doesn't have at least eight cylinders than there is nothing you can do to make the thing sound healthy.
But it is though. Also, you don't want to go there (in reference to the need for boost). I can post many video's of naturally aspirated LS1's running deep into the tens. Show me any street legal Import, in full street trim, minus turbo
you do know that trying to remove the turbo from a car to show how good soemthing is can go both ways right? try doing the same thing without the extra four cylinders. I'm sorry I just never understood that arguement. always in an attempt to show how good something is the conditions have to be picked to of course favor your arguement. if I'm an import driver and want to run from a roll then I'm nothing but a whimp and a *****. honestly it's just that domestics under teh stereotype don't do well from a roll as they do from a stop and so the import is trying to gain an advantage and so he isn't a real man.
same arguement here. can't use a turbo has to use a smaller displacement moter then the V8 but yet that is deemed a fair comparison at that point because as everyone knows it gives the domestic the advantage. but in this case it's perfectly ok. in all honesty though all that turbo really does is act to increase his displacement. more air in more air out.
like here try this one. I want you to show me some domestic that can run 15's without using any cylinders or any forced induction.
sorry it's not just you but a very common thing I have noticed.
25mustang almost I would almost say that most if not all of these cars taht are streetable and even claimed to be street legal are in all truth not street legal.
Last edited by rx7speed; 02-20-2008 at 01:02 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Okay, here is a very good way to do this we take an '91 RS Camaro and a '91 Honda civic EX hatch. you add $4,000 dollars in upgrades the camaro will win.
Import can be fast they can be VERY fast but, it takes alot of money to do so.
355 small block,dartII heads with 205 valves,200 cc ,lunati cams,545/545-315/315,1.6 roller rockers,flowtech headers,toqurer 2 intake,1 in spacer,800cfm carb,keith black true flat tops,eagle steel crank,eagle steel rods,windgage tray,screened oil returns,balanced, 200 hp top shot nitrous kit 2 stage,100 hp 1st stage,100 hp 2nd stage 
we might not get traction off the bat but we will catch you down the track... also there is supras and other high end jap cars that have no problem launching off the line. take a look at the AWD dsm's and rear wheel cars.
you first say one thing thne say another 
