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I own a 2000 Grand Prix GTP coupe, with intake,downpipe, and tune i pulled off a 13.97 @ 98mph with a 2.15 60'.
A week or so ago, talking to a few friends, i hear that the best friend of someone I don't get along with was talking about his Trans Am, and how it would wreck my car. I ask what year and mods and no one knows, so i leave the thought open that this car could easily rip mine apart.
my friend talks to the kid later on that night and tells me its a 1987, mostly stock. I raced a clean 91 camaro a few months ago with a 350 and basic bolt on's, so i figure this could be a good race.
I get on the phone with the kid to ask if he wants to race, he proceeds to laugh and tell me how his car will rip mine apart. I ask what he has done, he tells me its a 305 with ram air, exhaust, a "racing transmission" and a performance tune. i laugh and tell him if thats what he thinks i would love to prove him wrong. He goes on to tell me it puts down 375 whp, and i proceed to almost fall on the floor with laughter. I ask if he has anything mod wise he hasn't told me ie blower, shot of nitrous, etc and he says no. Hearing the word blower, he goes on to tell me if i havent swapped the supercharger, there is no way i can keep up(because we all know supercharger pulleys couldnt be swapped anyway )
he then tells me its some special edition TA, and correct me if I am wrong but the only special edition TA as far as 3rd gen's go is the 89 TTA, which has a 3.8 v6 aka 231ci motor, not the 5.0 305 v8. I tell him to just prove me wrong, I will even pay for the gas it takes him to come out and run me in order to see what this thing can do.
So now i pose a few questions. Is there any plausible way there is any truth to this kids claims of it being a special edition TA or having 375 hp with those mods from any TA of that year? i know TA's from the factory get between 175-210 hp with the 305(unless there really is a special edition TA i don't know of) but if there is a special edition or private label TA what are the specs on it?
I will be getting this from multiple views like in car footage, chase car footage, and from up the road a bit to make a decent video. I will post it up here once it happens if you all would like.
This is not an effort to bash third gen's or anything, but more to share how toolish this kid sounds in my opinion and get some answers from people who know about third gens before this race happens. PS sorry for the novel
Another typical know nothing tool. If he had a TTA he'd probably be bragging about it. Judging by this moron even if he had a TTA he wouldn't know how to get that kind of power out of it.
If he has a 305 with those oh so awesome mods the race won't be pretty for him.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, Cobalt boost/fuel pressure gauges, AEM wideband O2, ported plenum, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
yeah doesnt sound like much of a race to me... most 305 cars i know are dogs. bolt ons will not hang with a GTP.
My L98 Irocz ran up against a GTP and even tho he got a slight jump on me at the start, it took me to about 90mph before i could gain on him. I dont know his mods, but my car had exhaust/headers/air intake mods and i dont remember if i had a stall or gears at that time but i doubt it. exhaust bolt on L98 is probly as fast as your GTP is now. it be a dead even heat
Agreed, This is that unfortunate soul who really doesnt know what he is talking about. Typical I have a firebird and it is fat (mustang camaro those types) it is often times hard to get them to realize the true power of their car and once you start modding one you get a better picture of what Thirdgens are all about.
A stock 305TPI is just a 125 shot away from high 13's, make sure he's off the bottle. Otherwise, yea, he would need some serious work to run 13's w/ a TPI 305. mw66nova might chime in at some point here and tell you he's got a 305 to race you, but he's a bit more than "bolt-on's."
305 TPI or whatever cannot hang. My mom had a bonniville with a 3.8NA and i street raced for fun. I beat monte carlos and camaros with 350's. make it boosted and it is real tough esspecially with a 305. ya maybe he was dumb enough to dump thousands into it and even boost it but he will still loose. if he has a 350 with heads and other bolt ons w/ NOS then you might see his tail lights. pay his gas and tell him you want to race for cash (after looking under the hood) put a smaller pulley on and run high octane gas and win back your money and then some. if he talks so much trash he does not know what fast is.
and i know i did a little but lets not make this a "my 305 is soooo awesome" thread.
thanks for the input everyone. i figured this kid was full of it, but was willing to leave the chance open. i love third gen's, i almost bought a 92 350 TA originally, its just around here its hard to find a clean third gen with a competent owner.
As for the race, i want to check his car out and offer to pay for a dyno. if i lose the race he gets gas money and a free dyno. if i win i get double what i paid for the dyno.
the fact of how bad he will get beat provided he has the mods he claims is beside the point to me, its the tons of **** talk he is laying down. I like shutting up people who talk them selves up in every aspect of life.
My mom had a bonniville with a 3.8NA and i street raced for fun
i have a 03 impala 3.8 that takes down 70's 350 "muscle cars" lol i beat a mid 70's 4spd corvette with it 3 times from a roll of all speeds. But L98 cars would whooooop up on any n/a 3.8 as long as the L98 is in good running condition. 3.8's are not 14 second cars
A stock 305TPI is just a 125 shot away from high 13's, make sure he's off the bottle.
actually, a 75 shot should be all a decent running LB9 should need to hit 13s. my friends 305 TPI T/A had only a catback, a cone filter in place of the stock airbox, and a 75 shot and he ran 13.8 at 99mph. bumping up the juice to a 125 shot got him a 13.1 at 104mph. his 60fts for both runs were 2.0s
actually, a 75 shot should be all a decent running LB9 should need to hit 13s. my friends 305 TPI T/A had only a catback, a cone filter in place of the stock airbox, and a 75 shot and he ran 13.8 at 99mph. bumping up the juice to a 125 shot got him a 13.1 at 104mph. his 60fts for both runs were 2.0s
I must have been thinking about the TBI305 guy on here that runs the 125 shot, he's like a 13.6 if I remember correct. It would make sense that an LB9 car would be faster, I'm sure a G-92 optioned car would do 13's w/ a 75 shot all day.
i would be careful on this race. i used to go to the local street races for fun and i used to tell people i had a stock 305 tbi and i got the ground affects from a IROC z in the pick and pull. They all belived me, they all put down 20 dollars and the all seen how nasty a bolt on l98 with a 125 shot is on the street.
just be on the look out for tell tale signs of a fast car ie SFC, cross drilled rotors, aftermarket fuel pump wine, tires wider then 245 in the rear, traction bars cut outs and more.
been trying to coax a race out of a couple of those gtp`s around my town,but no luck.Hi 13`s aint bad at all mildly modded,I wondered what they`d run.A bolt on 305 doesnt stand a chance at that.Before I swapped in my 5.7 my 305 was a dog.Build the boy up some character and embaress him.
I own a 2000 Grand Prix GTP coupe, with intake,downpipe, and tune i pulled off a 13.97 @ 98mph with a 2.15 60'.
A week or so ago, talking to a few friends, i hear that the best friend of someone I don't get along with was talking about his Trans Am, and how it would wreck my car. I ask what year and mods and no one knows, so i leave the thought open that this car could easily rip mine apart.
my friend talks to the kid later on that night and tells me its a 1987, mostly stock. I raced a clean 91 camaro a few months ago with a 350 and basic bolt on's, so i figure this could be a good race.
I get on the phone with the kid to ask if he wants to race, he proceeds to laugh and tell me how his car will rip mine apart. I ask what he has done, he tells me its a 305 with ram air, exhaust, a "racing transmission" and a performance tune. i laugh and tell him if thats what he thinks i would love to prove him wrong. He goes on to tell me it puts down 375 whp, and i proceed to almost fall on the floor with laughter. I ask if he has anything mod wise he hasn't told me ie blower, shot of nitrous, etc and he says no. Hearing the word blower, he goes on to tell me if i havent swapped the supercharger, there is no way i can keep up(because we all know supercharger pulleys couldnt be swapped anyway )
he then tells me its some special edition TA, and correct me if I am wrong but the only special edition TA as far as 3rd gen's go is the 89 TTA, which has a 3.8 v6 aka 231ci motor, not the 5.0 305 v8. I tell him to just prove me wrong, I will even pay for the gas it takes him to come out and run me in order to see what this thing can do.
So now i pose a few questions. Is there any plausible way there is any truth to this kids claims of it being a special edition TA or having 375 hp with those mods from any TA of that year? i know TA's from the factory get between 175-210 hp with the 305(unless there really is a special edition TA i don't know of) but if there is a special edition or private label TA what are the specs on it?
I will be getting this from multiple views like in car footage, chase car footage, and from up the road a bit to make a decent video. I will post it up here once it happens if you all would like.
This is not an effort to bash third gen's or anything, but more to share how toolish this kid sounds in my opinion and get some answers from people who know about third gens before this race happens. PS sorry for the novel
HMM.....
I Have a 2001'GTP',and it's allright. I Changed my S/Charger pulley to a 3.400 Dia.(About 10-12 Lbs/Boost).I Live In MASS, drive 120 MI. daily,(6) days to work,Had a 1996SVT COBRA(4.6DOHC),I Bought a 'DIABLO'programmer,FLO's/BDS/BBK/ROUSCH STG#3/S.A.Fuel MGMT.,ETC,
WELL..40$ in fuel was getting RIDICULOUS-BUT..when you HAVE to DRIVE THAT FAR..WELL..YOU have to have SOME way to kill the time-THAT VOID
WAS FILLED BY MY COBRA. Now people BITCH and MOAN about 2 inches of snow now'OMG!!!STATE OF EMERGENCY! PUT THE TIRE CHAINS ON YET!?It makes no sense,WHEN did this START?I DROVE through 10 TEN years of some of the NASTIEST STORMS IN CAMARO'S,GTO'S,A SUPER BEE',MUSTANGS GALORE-Looking out , LITTERED on the sides of RTE#91,all the LATEST+GREATEST' SUV's, off the road-STUCK,as I saw them blast by me a mile back doing 70,on the phone(Of Course)-Anyway-That COBRA(though I really liked it),needed a more ECONO,(Can't even spell it)Well-2 days into AUGUST-A Middle aged guy was taunting with me on the Highway, He would speed up/down-come up close behind,etc..I noticed he had a paper in his hand he was WAVING, I was watching my temp gauge Nervously, But a quick Turn on HIGH, fan MAX on heat cured the prob(110' outside)and I took the NEXT EXIT off,(Digging in my G/Box for my P.Sl.).LIGHT RED-NO-ONE IN INEVITABLE DANGER-I ASKED'YOU FOR REAL,LOSER WALKS, or ENDS UP GOING FOR A 'WEIGHTED' SWIM in the RIVER",He Nods, and blurts'ON GREEN'..(geez...always thought it was yellow)Light Turns, OFF in 2nd
with a MOTOR(That'MUSTANG..''THROATY'+ LOUD"Hooked LEFT in a NICE POSI,Ripped 3rdCar Zipped Sideways RIGHT..7500RPM Jab into 4TH,
Started the'FOXBODY 'SQUIRREL'",off the GAS for a sec/Back in-just enough time to see my Mushroom Cloud in the mirror,and no OPPONENT!,but
i'm doing about 125MP-errKM/H,(of course),I slow up..Turn off on a Street just before the 1320 Light, Spin back down the opposite lane from where
I came from...And THERE HE WAS, Front end of his car in a small Ditch, Near the Highway overpass.He 'claimed'That the smoke from my tires went right into his OPEN windows about 20 feet out,and he thought he was being SHOT at-loud THUDS on his car's body(MY STICKY MICKEYS started DISINTEGRATING on that HOT day),but THEN he said, the BACK of HIS car BROKE LOOSE, and he LOST CONTROL..OK..THE 2001 'GTP' I have...THATS IT..ONE...it's FWD...TWO...he couldn't of done more than CHIRPED his front tires-THE TRACTION CONTROL WAS ON, AND HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DISABLE IT...!He had just bought the car for 9500$, I felt a BIT like just
givig it to him...BUT...I DIDN'T. Gets 25-3oMPG,(HIGHWAY) A/C, CRUISE/BOSE 320W/LEATHER,HUDisplay...ALL THE TOYS, SAME motor
as my 87'GN, But SUPERCHARGED INSTEAD..Pushrod v-6..No 'DOHC'
Just...Simple NON-NORMALLY ASPIRATED, FUEL INJECTED FUN! I Don'tt
know what it will do in the 1320,But from A 69'GTO I used to run @ LEBANON,NY(Best of 9.90@138), I'd say a mid 15@ about 85-90-(HEAVY CAR)-Not bad for a Miserable, Hot Days work Though..Think?
Anyone care to Speculate WHAT this car WILL do in the 1/4?,And can I 'CHIP' it?...Is there A KNOWN mfg that makes GOOD chips for this car..or do I have to PROGRAM my FUEL MAP/TIMING CHANGES-CURVES?I could research all this-but if someone already knows,I'll get better info THIS WAY..I'd Appreciate feedback, If possible..P.S. I Re-chip, and RE-Program 'ECU's,Typically IMPORTS, I actually Chip cars for a Highly Regarded Eastern 'NISSAN' race team.From BAJA to 'ICE RACERS',they NEVER quit!
GOOD MOTTO...'NEVER QUIT'
been trying to coax a race out of a couple of those gtp`s around my town,but no luck.Hi 13`s aint bad at all mildly modded,I wondered what they`d run.A bolt on 305 doesnt stand a chance at that.Before I swapped in my 5.7 my 305 was a dog.Build the boy up some character and embaress him.
High 13's out of a GTP with my mods is pretty unusual honestly. Stock i ran a 14.3 at 93(plugs on GTP's are usually a heat range too hot stock, thus knock) which is pretty uncommon. Motor trend advertises 15 seconds even, but have never met anyone running their GP that slow stock. Most i talk to are between 14.5-14.7 stock. with my mods 14.2's are typical it seems.
And OBDliterated, no offense but i dont really understand anything you just said. I gather you are asking about if you can "chip" a gtp? you cant add a chip, but you can reprogram the pcm or buy one already reprogrammed from a vendor. if all you have on the gtp is a 3.4 pulley, your probably slower than a stock gtp. there is alot of restriction in the stock downpipe, thus tons of backpressure and knock. If you want to know where to get parts for your gtp, message me since i don't know if its against forum rules to post about vendors that dont advertise, especially if they do not produce parts for third gens and i will give you a small laundry list of sites that have w-body parts.
if all you have on the gtp is a 3.4 pulley, your probably slower than a stock gtp. there is alot of restriction in the stock downpipe, thus tons of backpressure and knock.
You are absolutely correct!
I have the 3.4, RT downpipe, SLP exhaust, FWI, DHP 1.0, drilled 180 T-stat, fan override kit, fuel pump hot-wire, Autolite 103's, poly upper mounts, solid rubber engine and trans mounts, and NO HEADERS. I 've been 14.02 at 98 MPH (Cold weather, system in trunk, 3/4 tank of gas). All I need at this point are headers. Im still seeing 3-4 degrees of knock retard.
High 13's out of a GTP with my mods is pretty unusual honestly. Stock i ran a 14.3 at 93(plugs on GTP's are usually a heat range too hot stock, thus knock) which is pretty uncommon. Motor trend advertises 15 seconds even, but have never met anyone running their GP that slow stock. Most i talk to are between 14.5-14.7 stock. with my mods 14.2's are typical it seems.
And OBDliterated, no offense but i dont really understand anything you just said. I gather you are asking about if you can "chip" a gtp? you cant add a chip, but you can reprogram the pcm or buy one already reprogrammed from a vendor. if all you have on the gtp is a 3.4 pulley, your probably slower than a stock gtp. there is alot of restriction in the stock downpipe, thus tons of backpressure and knock. If you want to know where to get parts for your gtp, message me since i don't know if its against forum rules to post about vendors that dont advertise, especially if they do not produce parts for third gens and i will give you a small laundry list of sites that have w-body parts.
THANKS FOR THE I/P '2BLKGTP',
I'm Aware about the only possibility of the OBDII 'GTP' Computer Either
Being RE-Programmed with an EMULATOR, HOWEVER-THERE IS AN EEPROM
That can Be Removed,Solder In a 'ZIF'(ZERO INSERTION FORCE) socket,
And 'PIGGYBACKING' an 'EMULATOR',Usually You have to Use The STOCK
CHIP atop, Plugged into the 'EMULATOR', And with a 'POCKET PROGRAMMER', and a Windows-Based O/S Laptop/Some Algorithmic Software that interprets the 'PASCAL' Computer language, And Converts it into Something people NON-
C++/PASCAL Computer Language Literate-Can work with or UNDERSTAND-Giving 'REAL TIME' Graphing of Most EVERYTHING, A/F Mixture/Timing(Static and Dynamic/VE%/EGT's(if thermistors installed))YOU CAN DO THIS WITH THE CAR RUNNING.With an 'EMULATOR' ONLY, Not a Chip Programmer That plugs into your OBDII Diagnostics Port,(16) PIN. I could do it with a 'DIABLO PROGRAMMER' in my Camaro's, AND Mustangs- But, the 'EPA' clamped down
HARD AGAIN 5 years back, forcing us to come at RE-Programming ECU'sEEPROMS in a different, somewhat - REVERSAL in technology/But
to the same end effect, And we invented/Sometimes'Stumbled upon'
real PROMISING TECHNOLOGIES ON THE WAY.
BTW, my 01' GTP HAS HEADERS/SLP EXHAUST-and a few other'BASIC'
things to not go 'BACKWARDS' with the S/Charger 3.400 Pulley swap.
It goes SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER than before- but i'd honestly say
my 87' GRAND NATIONAL(Sold to my dad-he has 2, and a 'GNX' too)
would take it in the 1320 by at LEAST.. 2.5-3 secs-30 mph maybe,
i't being NEAR stock, about 230HP, 'GTP' 240HP, maybe 280 or so now..with 800lbs to boot(y).I NEED
to INEXPENSIVELY alter my fuel MAP, and a few degrees of timing wouldn't hurt either.I KNOW I can do it the COMPLEX way..I need to do it the
'CHEAPER,(INEXPENSIVE-NON TIME COMSUMING WAY) I MADE(UNDER 200-)
WIDEBAND o2 SENSORS, and have BETTER INJECTORS which I PLAN
to use when I find the cheap computer revision method, Hint, Hint-
You DID say you knew where a decent supplier was to be found for 'GTP' products..I'd Really appreciate the Input. Sorry for writing the Encyclopedia,
I get carried away with info sometimes...ok 'USUALLY!
Thanks for the Reply.
OBDliterateD
__________________ Matt
370ci LSx, "Close Enough Racing" th400, Transmission Specialties XHD9" 4500 stall converter, Moser 9" 4.30's, Mickey Thompson 28x10.5S's rollin' on BS Street Lites. Pump gas and street driven...doin' it all motor!
A stock 305TPI is just a 125 shot away from high 13's, make sure he's off the bottle. Otherwise, yea, he would need some serious work to run 13's w/ a TPI 305. mw66nova might chime in at some point here and tell you he's got a 305 to race you, but he's a bit more than "bolt-on's."
your gtp will hand him his azz,got mine handed to me last night by 1998 gtp ,cold air intake borla exhaust ,chip? we dont know .its my sons car ,later jimmy
just be on the look out for tell tale signs of a fast car ie SFC, cross drilled rotors, aftermarket fuel pump wine, tires wider then 245 in the rear, traction bars cut outs and more.
Other than the fuel pump whine, all of these are usually signs of a slow car that the owner wants to look like a fast car. LOL think about it.
I think my car would stick with you (I got more mods with him and a 350) but that guys is a moron to think the 305 with little mods would beat you. Did you bet money?
__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3001567
1/4 Mile- 14.3 at 94 mph. Full exhaust, 373 rear gears. Custom ram air *OLD*
New Parts. 350 Cubic inch, stealth ram intake, patriot heads, Comp 503 Cam, 1.6 Rockers, High output fuel pump. Project 12's car
I had a 01 GTP with a Thrasher intake, DHP PCM(Digital Horsepower), SLP loudmouth catback, ZZP 3.4 pulley, U-Bend delete, ZZP 160' thermostat, performance shift, and suspension mods that ran a best of 14.00 at 98 mph with a 2.10 60' time at Sacramento raceway...(Torque Steer like a SOB!!!)
I'm sure the GTP was faster than my IROC. My IROC is the 305 TPI LB9 with the 5 speed and it does feel very torquey. If I had to guess I'd say it's a mid to high 14's car...
)
