A kid at school was talking trash about my car, and I just wanted to know if he is talking out of his *** or not. THIS is the car he is supposed to be getting and I laughed when he said it would beat my car. So what do you guys think? stock 1988 TPI 350 vs b17a1 engine swap with Vtec controller integra. What the hell is a vtec controller?? If it is from a dig I'm not worried too much but if we are rolling, maybe 35-45MPH who would win?

Race for cash.

You've got 3x the torque and about 80 more hp. Granted, his car will be lighter, but fwd and under powered.

Ask him how your tail lights look from behind! I agree, race for cash.

Thats a funny one, put up 50 bucks one day. A vtec controller is a little piece of junk you get off of ebay. It doesnt do anything, thats a POS and he might be lucky to have a 9 sec 0-60 time.

Your car would rape him from any speed, any day, any time,

I knew it. I don't really brag about my car or even bring it to school, so when he said it would whoop my *** I just kinda smiled. I didn't want to actually say anything until we went at it, because I just want his jaw to drop as I blow by him. Maybe I will bet him $50 or something. I don't under stand why people spend all the money doing motor and transmission swaps in a car, just to have it be just a little faster slow car... He said that the car spun the tires through third gear... maybe because it has shitty tires and no grip because it is a FWD car...

The only thing tuners have going for them is weight, or lack thereof. But most rice*s are nothing with out a turbo at 23psi of boost... You'll win, make sure you video tape it. If you do it from a roll, go at 40mph or when your engine is at 1k rpms in 4th(overdrive) gear..thats the sweet spot...

I have a friend that has a S/C 94' Integra, I've been in this car and its beyond PATHETIC... slow as hell... he goes around saying it runs 6's in the 1/8...HAHA! Sad thing is he used to be Domestic(drove a modded 1980 Monte Carlo) Then he got this car for a steal (some drunk idiot traded that car for my friends shitty truck) lol but anyways he got hooked into the rice scene..... Sucks.... I've been trying to bring him out of it, You know what his excuse is? "I love American cars but the Integra is just so damn fast!" Whatever budd...... hahaha

hahaha, your friend must hate torque...

$$$$$$ race him for some money man, my friend has a integra thats hes tryin to sell and i drove it and its a turrrrddddd, any MPH you got him, and deffinetly videotape it, i hate imports.

I'll bet he does now, with all that hp just radiating off the integra its hard to turn away.

with the ebrake in? lol
i have a 90 accord with practically the same motor as well and it has an intake, headers, and cams.
still doesn't beat a T/A.
the lil integra's are quick tho. quick, not fast

My 225 hp LB9 powered Formula took a 201 hp RSX-S Acura like taking candy from a baby.

All he could do was spin the tires..... See ya!

He told me today that that this car was able to keep up with a SRT 4 Neon.... lol This Friday or Saturday I will race him, and probably take a vid of it. He is hell bent on saying that there is no way my car will beat him, and today he was talking about how when "Vtec kicks in" he is gone. I couldnt stop lauging!!!

You'll be so far ahead by the time "Vtec" kicks in to add that extra 12hp LOL that it won't even matter..

Hahaha hahaha ya thats pretty funny lol ull kick his ***, but just asking i have a 1989 trans am gta with the 5.7 l98 an im curious how much rwhp it puts out an tq its basically stock only has magna flow catback wit the y pipe????

Theres a lot of bashing here and not much common sense.

A stock 350 TPI car is a low 15 sec car in most cases, some dip into the high 14's with a good driver and non stock tires.

But after 20 years there is no such thing as "stock" you will have changed the tires atleast once the suspension will have worn to a certain extent and the same goes for the motor.

Some cars can gain a couple tenth's after 40-50,000 miles but thats a total crap shoot.

If the OP has actualy run the car he could let us know whaere he runs. But if he never has run the car before we can assume that he's not good enough to get every last 1/10'th out of the car and low 15's are a safe bet.


As for the Acura we can see that they have a street weight of about 2900lbs, and that the B17A1 puts out about 170 CHP stock.

That alone makes it a mid 15 sec car.

Now the additional mods if they actualy compliment the motor and work well can easily add 20 CHP to the motor and move the car into the low 15's making this a drivers race.

Beyond that it's not possible to say what car will win, the OP has had his car longer than the opponent has had the Integra so he dose have a real advantage. FWD vs RWD has no place in this argument since I have seen no proof that in the case of a 15 second car FWD is at any disadvantage.

Infact I regularly see FWD cars of every make pull decent hole shots on RWD Mustangs, F bodies and traditional Musclecars.

Where they tend to lose ground (and I have noticed this with both my own Mazda and my TA) is with the huge gap between 1st and 2nd.

Most small displacement compacts come with really deep 1st gear ratios to make stop and go driving easier in a car with little torque off idle.

This leads to two problems in the world of drag racing though, #1 is that when you try to launch at or near peak torque you have major traction issues. #2 is that after shifting to 2nd you almost invariably drop well below your ideal RPM.

To fix this problem both of my cars are getting new trannies, the TA is just getting a mildly worked over 200-4R while tha Mazda is getting a rebuilt 5 speed with a higher 1st and a slightly lower final. After the turbo setup is ready it'll be getting a higher final as well.



But my prediction is that the OP will win, essentialy because it takes some trial and error to drive a small displacement car fast and the fact that the OP has an auto means he has less of a chance to make mistakes.

My 91 Z28 with only a SLP catback exhaust hit a 14.5 in the 1/4 mile, and that was with a LB9 and 5 speed. It was also a G92 car which helps. 3.42 gears stock. Motor was rated at 230hp and 300tq.

i beat a b18 civic hatchback with a slightly modded 350 with a th350 with a peg leg rear and stock 15 inch tires. i left him in the dust and i spun through second you dont have anything to worry about youll toast him off the line weither you hook up or not

Well we raced from a 40 MPH roll. It was pretty much equal, I might have won by a little bit. He was too chicken **** to go from a light, he said he would this week end. He said it was because he cant drive stick yet... Im still not worried from a dig.

what an idiot no wonder he dosent want to race from a dig he cant drive stick... but im still surprised he kept up with from a roll... you should be able to beat him from a dig thats for sure... so did you bet money...

Is there not a track near you somewhere? Please don't do this from a stoplight. I'd hate to see you lose your license ... or worse hurt that car or somebody else on the road. If he won't go to a track with you, leave it alone.

dont do it on the street. take it to a strip and run it with lights and a real clock. and that way you are limited to 1/4 mile - and no one gets killed on the highway.
that 1/4 is important - clean road - no car over the ridge - and like the man said - he will get you out of the hole. the old vw bugs used to hole shot vetts - for the first 50 feet then it was vette tail lights for the rest of the run.

get a look under his hood - if he has a bottle hooked up all bets are off.

All the trash talk about how your car would kill it, and even with his crappy driving he hangs with you. OUCH!! At least you posted the outcome, a lesser man wouldn't have.

Since he dosnt drive stick ( not suprising really, since he's young and very few people learn with a manual like I did) The OP will almost certainly win.

For the other guy it simply takes time and practice to get used to a stick on a daily bassis and very few people ( including the guy calling him an idiot most likely) really know how to drive a stick at the strip. Again it just takes time and usualy some instruction.

Do go to the strip, if you were so close from a roll then it could come down to a couple tenths from a dig. In that case neither of you will be able to claim victory based on what you can see from inside.

Besides, hitting the track for a whole night of T&T is something you both proabably desperately need, tell me this... what RPM is best to launch at in your particular case?

What's your best possible 1-2 shift point?

Is the car faster if left in OD?

At what point dose advancing your timing cause the ET to either fall off or level out?



I say go there as friends, help each other out with tools and a third hand when you can. Discuss what you both learn while there so you both can be the best possible driver's.

The thing I don't get about the street racing forum is the people that come on here and bitch out the people posting about street racing. The forum is meant for street racing, the people that are doing the racing know they shouldn't be doing it, and bitching about it isn't going to change things, why beat a dead horse!! I myself would not street race even if I did have a fast car, which I don't, but if I did i wouldn't street race, but I'm not going to bitch out others for doing it. Let the flaming begin!

DIE HORSE DIE!!

Jason has a point. Don't come here to lecture, we don't want to read it. Just wastes our, and your, time. It's a Street racing forum for a reason. I don't really street race (once I hit the speed limit I'm done), but I do enjoy reading these threads. But when I come across someone lecturing the OP, I usually stop right there and look for another. Well, that's all I wanted, to share my opinion.

You guys do have good points though. It's just it gets kind of tiring to see these "lectures" in almost every thread in this forum.

Not here to argue. I agree with you guys 100%.

Not lecturing, just pointing out that you wont learn as much in a month of "street" racing as you will at the friday night T&T. Frankly who wants to see two people race when neither has the experience to put on a real race?

An as I also said the race was so close even the OP couldnt claim to have won with any confidence, a time slip erases all doubt.

I have waxed so many of these ricers I don't even give them any thought any more. I have NEVER lost to an Integra. They are a cute, sporty, economy car nothing else.

Well this weekend I will video tape it from a dig and post it on here. I had the car in overdrive and we went from about 40 MPH. I tried to do what HCR13 told me to, and was surprised he kept up too. He was surprised my car was so fast lol. I did beat a nice clean 88 RS Camaro that wasn't stock today. That was the best I ever launched my car, if I do it like that again this week end, he has no chance in hell of winning...

And usually I baby the **** outta this car I never race it, but its just one of those weeks. I want to see what its got!

ok lets get some of this cleared up... i used to be a honda/acura fan....then i bought a real car . any ways back to the subject theres no such thing as a b17a1 its either a b16 or a b18 so the cute little r.cer doesnt know what hes talkin about. and as far as the whole vtec thing goes when vtec kicks in ( which is usually around 4500 rpm) all it does in rev the motor a little faster so hes only got about 1500-2000rpm of it. and for the vtec tuner all it does is move the vtec range around a bit and they usually have restrictions on them (i.e. you can move it to kick in at like 4000-4300rpm) so let him play with his little hot wheels car and watch him blow his little fart cannon machine up playin with his $20 tuner while hes admiring ur tail lights.

Actualy http://www.jdmenginesamurai.com/engi...gine_b17a1.htm

In your defense your not the first person to think the B17a1 is a myth lol.



No, It essentialy switches to an entirely different cam making a big (relatively) difference in power.

Face it, you would love to be able to switch from a mild torque producing cam to a full on race cam on the fly. Infact thats the idea behind Rhodes variable lifters and launcher type cams.


I do think the Vtec mechanisim is designed *** backwards though. It essentialy increases the mass of the valve train by 30-50% right as the motor crosses into the upper RPM range. But it's not like these motors actualy have a hard time revving so it's just an academic observation on my part.


BTW just because you couldnt make your Honda fast dosnt mean everybody is working with the same lacking skill set Most of them are but not all lol.

My thought on this whole thread.. Add a few parts to the 5.7 TPI and its BYE, BYE *****! I had what amounted to a stock TBI 305, LT1 cam, TPI on-top, Tri-Y headers and duals in my fullsize chevy van and ran a 15.01 @ 92 in the 1/4 mile. In a 5,500 lbs van with 3.08s and 29" tall tires, thats taller overall than then the common thirdgen 2.73, 26" tall tire combo. Stock 700r4 with the stock 1,600 rpm converter in it. With a few real modifications the TPI engines will FLY. I never had any trouble with the local import crowd, save a STI or other Turbo car.



http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/f...t=101_1468.flv

good advice. it took me a lot of late nights on backroads after work to figure those types of things out. there wasnt a track nearby nor could i afford it at my minimum wage job. when i finally was able to go, i knew what i needed to do as a driver and what my car could and couldnt do after two trips and several passes at the track.

thats your problem right there. if you did that during the race, thats probably why he was able to keep up with you so well. next time, put it 2nd and dont let the torque converter lock up and you'll do much better.

I would go from a 20 punch in 1st gear, if you can keep the tires planted. You will EAT his lunch from a 20 punch, manually shifting at about 5,250 or so.

i agree. a 20 roll is much more suited for our cars. basically, i was just saying not to leave it in overdrive for a roll race.

there have been plenty of L98 fbodies that have gone 14s 100% stock. most are mid - low 14s if in good tune and driven properly

a friend of mine had a 85' Trans Am with the LB9/auto/3.27s. went 15.1 at 90mph 100% stock. that car was only rated at 205hp/290ftlbs. im sure a 350TPI with +30hp and +50tq would go faster

anyone who cant get out of the 15s with a L98 fbody has no place in a performance car

This is what i was going to say basically. my car (LB9, manual, 3.08s) has run 15.5s with a miserable 60 foot and it is completely stock (and whipped on). Also, most L98s ran somewhere in the 14 second bracket, with the best drivers nearing 13s with no real work done to it. I know of several bolt on L98 cars running 12s NA.

in short, you are not giving his car the credit it deserves. It should crush from a launch

Like i said I think that even bone stock the 350 has it, assuming a good driver and the car is in good repair.

It's impossible to predict what the Teg will run though because the "mods" listed are a bit vague. If the previous owner knew what he was doing it wouldnt be difficult at all to put that combo in the high 14's.

But like the majority of enthusiasts, Honda people tend to lose track of the big picture and waste money on mods and parts that sound good or look good instead of looking at the car and the goal and building to acomplish said goal.

I agree completely....

The JDM b17a1 only puts out 117 lbs/tq....there's no way that Integra is going to beat your GTA. Can't wait for the video footage. Just do what everyone is saying about the launching from rolls and you'll pull away.

And if those torque numbers on that website are at the crank, then my car is pushing more torque at the wheel, and I could launch quicker than him.

Tell him that you would race him at irwindale i go there every thursday my brother in law always smokes imports with his lightning and i smoke hondas with my iroc

Your forgeting the huge gearing difference between the cars and the not so huge but still significant difference in weight.

Besides it's allready been shown that whatever the numbers are for eather motor the cars them selves run very similar 1/4 mile times.


You can talk trash about torque all you want but any Honda making say 200 LBft is a very quick car, nevermind that thats still over 100 less than a stock L98.

Personaly I preffer the easy to drive demeanor of my TA and Mazda but in a race it really dosnt matter if you have a mountain of torque since half or more of what you feel on the street dosnt factor in at the track.

Well, yeah, compared to the V8 powered third gens weight and the gearing they got out of the factory, it puts the two cars closer in 1/4 times. And we all know that torque is what makes the car go. So when you're putting out only around 120 lb/tq compared to a car making around 330 lb/tq. Take that into a power:weight ratio and the GTA is making more power. Of course, other factors come in, like suspension, tuning, gearing, driver, tires, and life of the engine and affects the outcome.

So you and I are on the same page.

I have personally ran a 14.3 1/4 mile run at 98mph and i have a 350 tpi 700r4 2.77 gears in a 89 iroc-z. my 60 foot was 2.02 and damn i wish i could find that time slip. i was racing against a 2008 ss truck with cai and headers, i won only because of better reaction time. a friend of mine owns a 97 integra (i think its a 97) he had a cai and of course 18inch rims....he never raced on a track before and yet still pulled a 15.8 out of his butt. if you lauch from a dig, place it in 1st gear hold the brake and push the gas to the point you fill your rear end wanting to push. once you get the go just slam the gas down and let go of the brake at the same time. shift into second at between 5k to 5200 on each shift (1-2 2-3) by the time you hit the end of 3rd gear your already doing at least 100mph race should be over and of course the Teg will drop his jaw.

i used to wax the DOHC Vtec integras with my satty, it was a 1.9 DOHC, but it did have pleanty of mods

anyway Vtec is not a thing that "kicks in" rice boys make it sound like its nitrous.....silly rice boys, i got a vtec v6 in my accord, the vtec does not "kick in" you can hear a change in the engine when it activates, but all it does is keep you in peak power range longer, no i will say that vtec 6 is quick for a jap car, 9.1 on a 1/8 stock with a cone filter ...... integras high 10's low 11's in the 8th

the only time i ever ran my camaro i got a 9.5 on the 1/8, losing traction and w/o a handfull of the mods that are on it now and the cruddy 2.73 peg leg (stats in VbGarage), id love to see in out there now, im sure its a 9 flat or lower

but anyway point being you should be able to beat him stock, if you got some mods than its a sure thing, just remember you are in your peak power range alot shorter time than he is, im sure if you ran even/a little better on a rolling race, you will hand it to him on a full on

dude, I see alot of 'modded' N/A civics/crxs/integras at the strip they run anywhere from the 17 to 15 second 1/4 mile range.

I took my 172,000 + mile formula 350 (stock, except no muffler, and a little advanced timing) to the san antonio speedway, and on my 4th and last run I got a 14.5 @ 93.

thats 172,000 miles on the entire drivetrain folks, and it still ran a 14.5. I paid 2500$ for that car

you should have no problem spanking most n/a intergras. rememeber, they sink alot of money into those cars to run with the v8s

Hey, cool thread. Did the race ever happen again?

I wish you could find the slip too because that's hard to believe. I'm not trying to be a **** but it's hard to believe a 2.77 MAF car with that kind of 60's time was running 14.3's bone stock.