Theoretical and Street RacingUse this board to ask questions about street racing, discuss your street races, and "who would win?" questions. Keep it safe.
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alright guys, i know we've all at least once or more have lined up next a mustang at a stop light. now iv beet fox bodys no problem. but my buddy's mom has 03" mustang gt (he thinks is unbeatable). so im asking wut your opinions would be if i can beat him or not... if i cant win, ill save the embarassement lol. and yes iv rode in it, and it does bother me a little on its pants to seat feeling and i would go out and race a random stranger with a mustang like his, but i can never get one to try me..
so heres the specs i found on his
stock 2003 mustang GT 4.6 sohc, auto
260 hp @ 5250 RPM
302 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
at the """ENGINE"""
and heres mine
1986 camaro iroc-z 5.0 tpi, auto (now i have dyno'd my car with the current mods except the ported plenum) so add a few hp to it.
236 hp @ 4100 RPM
359 lb-tq@ 2900 RPM
at the """ENGINE""" ,not wheels. to the wheels it was 186 hp, 279 lb-tq
the stang wieghs 3,300 lbs
the maro wieghs 3,200 lbs
should i race him or not????
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__________________ "current" mods: slp cold air, jet air foil, throttle body coolant by-pass, ported plenum, hooker super comp headers, custom y-pipe, flowmaster delta force muffler, custom burned chip through dyno tuning, corvette servo, beast sunshell, shift kit
Last edited by cIaRmOaCrZo; 11-09-2009 at 07:32 PM.
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You won't beat him I don't think. I had a cammed 305 TPI in my 86 TA that made 220 HP to the REAR WHEELS and 289 lbs ft to the wheels and I BARELY beat a similiar year mustang with just an exhaust on it. It was a close race too. I'm sure your car will hold it's own, but hes probably making 20 or 30 more horsepower to the ground than you
__________________ 1986 Trans Am, 2005 5.3 LM7 engine, LS6 intake manifold, cam, LS6 clutch assembly, T56 transmission w/ Hurst pro billet shifter, 95 TA 4.10 posi rear with heavy duty cover.
-Coming soon....dyno sheets!
dang.. plus his car has traction control unfortunatly, and i cant just nail it from the git go. but was your TA only cammed? or did you have my mods plus that?
haha very true. but he wont line his own cars against mine (which he claims will still beat me HAHAHA) and those are an 01' celica 1.8L, and a 95' civic 1.5L (yes both are bone stock) i know i got those two cars in the sack, its just that mustang im kinda worried about.
Yeah, I think he'll beat you. If you do race be sure you race from a dig, he may have limited slip but a 4.6 n/a makes crap for torque at low rpm's.
Dan
__________________ 86 Camaro tired 305 low output only heaven knows how many miles on it. Lunati cam, Edelbrock torquer intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger Carb, Hei distributor, Headman headers, 373 gears, lock rite locker, shift kit, 2500 rmp stall converter. Best 1/8 mile time so far: 8.89
Just go race him.... The world will change little with the results of one more Camaro vs. Mustang race....
There's a lot more involved in going fast and winning races then vehicle weight and horsepower... Also better take transmissions, gear ratio's, tires, suspension, and a whole host of other things....oh yeah, don't forget the driver's skill!!!!!
Not much to be gained from only racing cars you know you can beat, nor is there any "fool proof" method for determining who's going to win or lose....That's why we have the race!!!! If you win, fine...If you lose, get back to work on your car....
__________________ Of course it's for sale!!! Everything is for sale!!!!
Camaro and other projects pictures can be seen at:
radical82 you gotta good point. its just i kinda already ran my mouth sayin id beat him lol. so like i said itd be very embarrassing. i WANT to race that kind of mustang so bad, just wish it could be a stranger first you know?
Yeah, I think he'll beat you. If you do race be sure you race from a dig, he may have limited slip but a 4.6 n/a makes crap for torque at low rpm's.
Dan
i have limited slip too. he has traction control!!! i dont. so maby a slow rolling start would be best. oh yeah and his car shuts off at 130mph, mine dont
Unfortunately he will edge you out. Seeing as how you live in Indiana I'd just put the race off until spring, use the winter to get some gears and some ET streets.
You have a slight advantage in Torque, but his advantage is in the gears & HP. With some gears & the ability to hook it balances it out. Then I'd simply race him in an 1/8 as the quarter could still be too close to call and would be a drivers race.
__________________ 1991 Camaro RS: the 383 TBI with lots of goods, *plans for 8-71 blower next year* 1991 Camaro Z28: 350 HSR, Lt4 Hotcam, Trickflow Heads, 24# injectors, double roller timing chain & gear, 5spd w/B&M short throw shift, 3.73, K&N filters, Hooker 2055's & cat delete, msd 6A, msd hei coil, msd distributor, Jet underdrive pulleys, Flowmaster 3'' exhaust, Ostrich 2.0, DYno Tuned 2000 Pontiac Trans Am Ws6: T-tops, 6spd, SLP lid, custom true dual exhaust **Adding XFI281 cam & Longtubes this winter**
Unfortunately he will edge you out. Seeing as how you live in Indiana I'd just put the race off until spring, use the winter to get some gears and some ET streets.
You have a slight advantage in Torque, but his advantage is in the gears & HP. With some gears & the ability to hook it balances it out. Then I'd simply race him in an 1/8 as the quarter could still be too close to call and would be a drivers race.
well thats almost precisly what i have planned lol, except i plan on dumping my buddies old 383 in it and stealth ram it this winter. so then that wouldnt be a fair race hahahahah the stang wouldnt have a hells chance
Kinda surprised you don't have any 4.6s lining up with you willing to race. I get quite tired of the 4.6s always wanting to race when stuck next to one at a light no matter which car I'm in, or even funnier the lil V6's.
__________________ 1991 Camaro RS: the 383 TBI with lots of goods, *plans for 8-71 blower next year* 1991 Camaro Z28: 350 HSR, Lt4 Hotcam, Trickflow Heads, 24# injectors, double roller timing chain & gear, 5spd w/B&M short throw shift, 3.73, K&N filters, Hooker 2055's & cat delete, msd 6A, msd hei coil, msd distributor, Jet underdrive pulleys, Flowmaster 3'' exhaust, Ostrich 2.0, DYno Tuned 2000 Pontiac Trans Am Ws6: T-tops, 6spd, SLP lid, custom true dual exhaust **Adding XFI281 cam & Longtubes this winter**
man i NEVER get the 4.6's tryin to get some. and its kinda rare to see fox bodies around but when i do, they deff try. must be my boring town i live in. lol. my town is full of damn ricers. but when im in indianapolis, its anything you can think of. but still no 4.6's tryin me. all i want is one to try
alright guys, i know we've all at least once or more have lined up next a mustang at a stop light. now iv beet fox bodys no problem. but my buddy's mom has 03" mustang gt (he thinks is unbeatable) but i want to shut him up, but i would be so embarrased if i lost. so im asking wut your opinions would be if i can beat him or not... if i cant win, ill save the embarassement lol. and yes iv rode in it, and it does bother me a little on its pants to seat feeling and i would go out and race a random stranger with a mustang like his, but i can never get one to try me..
so heres the specs i found on his mommys car lol
stock 2003 mustang GT 4.6 sohc, auto
260 hp @ 5250 RPM
302 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
at the """ENGINE"""
and heres mine
1986 camaro iroc-z 5.0 tpi, auto (now i have dyno'd my car with the current mods except the ported plenum) so add a few hp to it.
236 hp @ 4100 RPM
359 lb-tq@ 2900 RPM
at the """ENGINE""" ,not wheels. to the wheels it was 186 hp, 279 lb-tq
the stang wieghs 3,300 lbs
the maro wieghs 3,200 lbs
should i race him or not????
Should be somewhat close but I think the stang will edge you out. 99-04's usually put 215-225 to the ground and run botton 14's. Race him though, you might out drive him. If you dont he will run in to the wrong maro one day. hahaha
ps 279rwt is closer to 320 motor. What number were you using for a loss?
dang.. plus his car has traction control unfortunatly, and i cant just nail it from the git go. but was your TA only cammed? or did you have my mods plus that?
It was cammed with shorty headers, exhaust, no cat, adjustable fuel pressure reg, a cold air intake, and ported plenum.....I did beat him, but like I said, it was pretty close. Plus, mine was a 5 speed manual.
Should be somewhat close but I think the stang will edge you out. 99-04's usually put 215-225 to the ground and run botton 14's. Race him though, you might out drive him. If you dont he will run in to the wrong maro one day. hahaha
ps 279rwt is closer to 320 motor. What number were you using for a loss?
i take wheel power divided by .85 for manual trans, and .78 for automatic. thats what my tuner told me, and thats how he gets his appox estimates. but to figure wheel power, i just do the opposite, take engine power times those numbers.
Lol ive been in many different forums talking about this debate on the tpi to 4.6 mustangs. Okay you have 305 tpi with simple mods, your car should be able to beat it barely if you know how the drive it the right way.
Stats though if your cars runs extremely well. Ive raced my buddys bolt on 4.6 03 gt with underdrive pulleys and 4.10 gear rear end No Tune, he only makes 260hp, vs my l98 dual cats, 3.27 gear auto. It was a DEAD EVEN RACE! I dont have any doubts that you can beat him if you know how to launch your car right without much wheel spin you can beat him. Just my 2 cents.
Lol ive been in many different forums talking about this debate on the tpi to 4.6 mustangs. Okay you have 305 tpi with simple mods, your car should be able to beat it barely if you know how the drive it the right way.
Stats though if your cars runs extremely well. Ive raced my buddys bolt on 4.6 03 gt with underdrive pulleys and 4.10 gear rear end No Tune, he only makes 260hp, vs my l98 dual cats, 3.27 gear auto. It was a DEAD EVEN RACE! I dont have any doubts that you can beat him if you know how to launch your car right without much wheel spin you can beat him. Just my 2 cents.
ahh thanks lol. thats what i wanted to hear. finaly a little bit light shed on this race lol. but yeah, trying not to get the wheel spin will be my challange. a 10mph roll might be in my favor
oh and another thing guys, i have my tclc hooked up to a toggle, should i use it?? iv played around with it and i cant quite determine if its helping or hurting.
ahh thanks lol. thats what i wanted to hear. finaly a little bit light shed on this race lol. but yeah, trying not to get the wheel spin will be my challange. a 10mph roll might be in my favor
Depending on what gear he decides to start from, race from a 15mph, thats how ive mainly had success with launching with my l98 with out much wheel spin, and you still have time for the low end torque to kick in til about 60-70, when your car pretty has to decide what happens after, but im sure if your car is setup right you can have the race beat by half a car if the other kid knows what he is doing drving the stang. Ive seen some nasty little mean 305 walk all over some other quick cars.
i take wheel power divided by .85 for manual trans, and .78 for automatic. thats what my tuner told me, and thats how he gets his appox estimates. but to figure wheel power, i just do the opposite, take engine power times those numbers.
well iv only raced it at a track once lol. (organized event for my skewl a few years back) anyway they only were doin 1/8 miles. and this was before i had some of my current mods, such as i didnt have the plenum ported, i didnt have tb bypassed, and i didnt have a proffesional dyno tune. instead i had this piece of **** hypertech thermo master (and didnt even have a 160* stat in it then either). with bald *** passenger tires. i ran a 9.6 i have the slips at home so i couldnt tell you the 60 ft or mph yet till i go home.
oh btw, when i ran my car on the dyno, the hypertech actually performed 19hp LESS than when we threw a stock chip in. then made 20 or so more hp off of that stock chip when we were done tuning.
oh and i ported the plenum AFTER the tune, so it should be more now.
well iv only raced it at a track once lol. (organized event for my skewl a few years back) anyway they only were doin 1/8 miles. and this was before i had some of my current mods, such as i didnt have the plenum ported, i didnt have tb bypassed, and i didnt have a proffesional dyno tune. instead i had this piece of **** hypertech thermo master (and didnt even have a 160* stat in it then either). with bald *** passenger tires. i ran a 9.6 i have the slips at home so i couldnt tell you the 60 ft or mph yet till i go home.
oh btw, when i ran my car on the dyno, the hypertech actually performed 19hp LESS than when we threw a stock chip in. then made 20 or so more hp off of that stock chip when we were done tuning.
oh and i ported the plenum AFTER the tune, so it should be more now.
so i wonder what my times will be now...
Its tough to say. 86 had the lg4 cam right? My guess would be high 14's. To beat a stock 99-04 auto stang you need to run better that 14.2. So maybe some gears, stall, and a bigger cam would do the trick.
not sure about lg4, it may be the same cam but the 86' cam had .350 lift on intake and .384 lift on exhaust, 179 duration on intake and 194 duration on exhaust. and 14's sound a bit tough, but possible
Its tough to say. 86 had the lg4 cam right? My guess would be high 14's. To beat a stock 99-04 auto stang you need to run better that 14.2. So maybe some gears, stall, and a bigger cam would do the trick.
Well the stock converters are not very good. Something in the 2400-2800 range would cut down your 1/4 by .2-.4.
a stall like that would be a bit extreme on torque happy engine. i could never hook up with a stall like that. i burn rubber like no tommarow with the factory stall i already have. so delaying the launch to a higher rpm would be hurting me. the primary reason for a stall is so you can run a higher idle if you have a radical cam, because it not bieng able to idle at low rpm. but the only way i could use a stall like that for the "other" reason people use it for is if i had some damn soft compound drag slicks lol.
a stall like that would be a bit extreme on torque happy engine. i could never hook up with a stall like that. i burn rubber like no tommarow with the factory stall i already have. so delaying the launch to a higher rpm would be hurting me. the primary reason for a stall is so you can run a higher idle if you have a radical cam, because it not bieng able to idle at low rpm. but the only way i could use a stall like that for the "other" reason people use it for is if i had some damn soft compound drag slicks lol.
I think you would be fine. Converters are one of, if not the most popular mod for thirdgens. They really take advantage of the low end. Ask for a second opinion though.
I was just thinking. It may not be a good idea to build your car just to beat that stang because if he does anything to it you'll be in trouble. Just have fun w/ it.
naw i wasnt gonna build it JUST to beat him. hes just one race that needs to be taken care of. but he has no intentions of modding that stang, plus its his moms lol. and he wouldnt know how to mod it if he wanted to lol
naw i wasnt gonna build it JUST to beat him. hes just one race that needs to be taken care of. but he has no intentions of modding that stang, plus its his moms lol. and he wouldnt know how to mod it if he wanted to lol
Haha if he beats you just throw that in his face. haha. "what time does mommy need her car back" lol
oh and just curious, you know how everyone is ranked (junior member, member, senior member, tgo, ect)?? how does that change? is it amount of time bieng a member, or how many posts you have posted? if its posts, how many did it take to get rid of the "junior" member?
I got a 91 z28 with a 350 TPI. i'm running long tube headers and open exhaust otherwise bone stock. I lined up beside an '01 mustang with a v6 and got my *** spanked. he was running 4.10 gears and flowmasters but he was stock too. i evened out a bit after about 65mph, but there's something about those newer mustangs.
Something had to be way off on your car, i stomp on v6 mustangs like theres no tomorrow. Stock l98 is what i have, with a crappy stall and converter, and a vette servo 3:23 gears. 03 gt 4.6 bolt on cars with 4:10 gears its a dead even heat race everytime with my car, you literally cant notice who wins, its close.
I got a 91 z28 with a 350 TPI. i'm running long tube headers and open exhaust otherwise bone stock. I lined up beside an '01 mustang with a v6 and got my *** spanked. he was running 4.10 gears and flowmasters but he was stock too. i evened out a bit after about 65mph, but there's something about those newer mustangs.
WOW!!! i woulda never guessed that would happen in a million years. here i am talkin about trying to beat the BIGGER engine mustang with the SMALLER engine camaro (thought the camaro engine is slightly larger than the biggest stang engine) but your sittin here saying you got whooped using the BIGGER of the camaro engine getting beat the SMALLER of the mustang engine.... wow lol. and i wasnt being general with those "bigger,smaller" words, not literal
I got a 91 z28 with a 350 TPI. i'm running long tube headers and open exhaust otherwise bone stock. I lined up beside an '01 mustang with a v6 and got my *** spanked. he was running 4.10 gears and flowmasters but he was stock too. i evened out a bit after about 65mph, but there's something about those newer mustangs.
Bring youre car to a competent mechanic. There is something wrong with it.
If that car "spanked" you, especially off the line, You have some probs.
You would lose, and actually, Traction control makes the mustang slower. My buddy has one, and his traction control is kinda effed and turns off randomly... haha
Go 4 it !!!! But I do not want to sound like a wuss ,I hope you are going to a local track .To many street races are killing to many people it's not worth changing your life or the lives of others.Do not get me wrong,I did it in my late teens early 20's up in NY on the countrys biggest drag strip for illegal street racing . Good ol DEER PARK AVE ''231'' .........2 many close calls 'and lost a few friends... Good luck to you and play it safe to race another day...................Boy do I miss my 70 camaro from back in the day 396 4 speed /spooled rear those were the days.
Go 4 it !!!! But I do not want to sound like a wuss ,I hope you are going to a local track .To many street races are killing to many people it's not worth changing your life or the lives of others.Do not get me wrong,I did it in my late teens early 20's up in NY on the countrys biggest drag strip for illegal street racing . Good ol DEER PARK AVE ''231'' .........2 many close calls 'and lost a few friends... Good luck to you and play it safe to race another day...................Boy do I miss my 70 camaro from back in the day 396 4 speed /spooled rear those were the days.
Sorry to go off topic guys..
I grew up on west 12 st, right off DPA.. Still cruise up there from time to time. Check out the link in my sig, You may recognize some things.
Learn to drive your car, i.e....get some decent tires or drag radials. A stall will also help out your launching and overall performance with said tires/drag radials. TPI is all about the launch. You have a 305, not a nitrous injected 454.
As for Traction control, it will not help him one bit in a race. TC is not for racing, but for slippery condition. <---Even that is debateable. I disabled TC in my LT1 because it was just annoying and unsafe. Couldn't drive in the rain with TC on. Yet I was totally fine with it off.
So learn to launch your "TORQUE MONSTER" and have a good race. Hopefully he knows how to drive and you win, so you have bragging rights. I'd rather loose to a mustang racing at 100% than win to one racing at 80%.
Last edited by BigWhiteGTP; 10-17-2009 at 04:16 AM.
Hopefully he knows how to drive and you win, so you have bragging rights. I'd rather loose to a mustang racing at 100% than lose to one racing at 80%.[/quote]
very true, that makes that feeling of accomplishment realy come out. and when you think about it, that pretty much is the ONLY reason ANYone races. realy think about those last 4 words, its totaly true. and not beating something that wasnt going 100% totaly melts that feeling of accomplishment. because there was nothing accomplished lol.
Have you raced him yet? Id to hear some results instead of debating and wondering about the situation. Not being rude, i know an l98 can do it, i wanna hear your 305 comes out on top.
I would be careful when racing the mustang. A friend of my mind got a 04 Mustang Gt and thinks the he is the S*** ever since he beat my camaro, i found out that he had a few upgrades and i had no chance with my camaro. But when I raced him with my 71 beetle he though it was gonna be a easy race but he was surprise to see that i won against his mustang by 1 1/2 car he couldnt believe it
An ex girlfriend of mine had an 03' GT when we dated. Bone stock, automatic. It generally went 14.5 - 14.6 with her behind that wheel. I yanked the air silencer, and threw on some UD pullies - I was able to muster some 14.30's out of it. Not a barn-burner by any means, and the gas mileage was horrible.
and i would go out and race a random stranger with a mustang like his, but i can never get one to try me.. 
"current" mods: slp cold air, jet air foil, throttle body coolant by-pass, ported plenum, hooker super comp headers, custom y-pipe, flowmaster delta force muffler, custom burned chip through dyno tuning, corvette servo, beast sunshell, shift kit 
1986 Trans Am, 2005 5.3 LM7 engine, LS6 intake manifold, cam, LS6 clutch assembly, T56 transmission w/ Hurst pro billet shifter, 95 TA 4.10 posi rear with heavy duty cover. 
Yeah, I think he'll beat you. If you do race be sure you race from a dig, he may have limited slip but a 4.6 n/a makes crap for torque at low rpm's. 
radical82 you gotta good point. its just i kinda already ran my mouth sayin id beat him lol. so like i said itd be very embarrassing. i WANT to race that kind of mustang so bad, just wish it could be a stranger first you know? 
so maby a slow rolling start would be best. oh yeah and his car shuts off at 130mph, mine dont 
all i want is one to try 
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
427 SBC
