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Hey guys! I've got a scenario for you! Below is my old car, a 2005 Dodge SRT-4. I put a lot of time and money into it. Long story short, it finally dynoed at 422hp/394tq at the front wheels, in Arizona. It had a Garrett DBB .50 trim turbo, with all sorts of supporting mods. I used to race Corvettes of all flavors, Mustangs, Hemis, WRX's, etc.
I beat a lot of my challengers, to their surprise.
I always beat thirdgen Camaros with it
What kind of numbers do you think a thirdgen Camaro would have to put down, to be able to hang with my mini-beast in a 1/4 mile pass? In stock form, this little car did the quarter mile in 13.8-14.1 seconds, with 230 hp (which I hear Dodge underestimated in their spec books).
stock versus .50 trim Garrett turbo
Here are the stock specs for my car:
Curb weight in stock form: 2970 lbs.
Power:
-230 hp (2004-2005 models)
-In 2004 the SRT-4 received a horsepower bump, with larger fuel injectors and a recalibrated engine computer. Manufacturers specifications when the SRT-4 was released was 230 horsepower. However, several independent tests have produced results indicating that the SRT-4 produces more horsepower than the manufacturer claims. Torque:
-250 lb·ft (339 N·m) @ 2400-4400 rpm (2004-2005 models) 0-60 miles per hour time:5.3 seconds
-Rev Limiter/Redline:6240¼ mile (400 m) time:13.8 seconds[¼ mile speed:103 miles per hour
-Top speed: Car and Driver magazine achieved a maximum speed of 153 mph.
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__________________ 1986 Z28
Last edited by New2Chevy; 10-26-2009 at 01:12 PM.
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its all about power to wiegth ratios... whats the weight.. i used to have a program that would calculate the etas... after that its driver skill... thats a nice car but can you drift lol
its all about power to wiegth ratios... whats the weight.. i used to have a program that would calculate the etas... after that its driver skill... thats a nice car but can you drift lol
Ha ha ha....drifting was a challenge, yes. I built the car to be a V-8 destroyer, plain and simple. I got my a** handed to me by a Lingenfelter Vette (of course) and by a 900+ horsepower Toyota Supra. Both were illegal 1/4 mile races.
My goal is to build my 86 Z28, so that it could beat this little Beestard.
I put the curb weight of the car, in stock form, in my posting:
2970 pounds
I don't know what my car weighed, but I do know that it just plain SCOOTED down the road.
You say in stock form, but if you were running upwards of 15-psi, you are doubling your cubic inch displacement, not to mention coupling that with a car that weighs 600 pounds less than an average third gen Camaro. Throw 15 pounds of boost at a bone stock third gen Camaro, and you will have similiar, if not better, results. Naturally aspirated though, it would come down to the right valvetrain selection being used in conjunction with the Camaro's gearing and stall (if auto). Wouldn't take much for the Camaro to compete IMHO....
You say in stock form, but if you were running upwards of 15-psi, you are doubling your cubic inch displacement, not to mention coupling that with a car that weighs 600 pounds less than an average third gen Camaro. Throw 15 pounds of boost at a bone stock third gen Camaro, and you will have similiar, if not better, results. Naturally aspirated though, it would come down to the right valvetrain selection being used in conjunction with the Camaro's gearing and stall (if auto). Wouldn't take much for the Camaro to compete IMHO....
Thanks for your input, Lethal. I agree. "Much" is a fairly loose term, perhaps. The cool thing about that little 2.4 liter was that I never built the internals. I got it to hold 24 psi, for a month, and it never blew. I TRIED to break that engine, but it just WOULDN'T BREAK. I turned the boost down to 22 again, and I kept it there for almost 2 years, and I stomped the crap out of that little car. Nothing ever broke on it. People say Neons are pieces of crap, but mine held up like a champ. I was impressed, to say the least. I ran the leanest afr's possible, too, all the time, and revved that engine like it was bulletproof. Strong little biznitch it was.
I am working on my Z28 drivetrain, as we speak. I have a 700R4 with Transgo street/strip shift kit (being installed as we speak). Shorty headers and matching y-pipe and better exhaust system are coming soon.
I'm still trying to figure out if I want to build a 355 roller with a turbo setup (THAT would K/A) or build my 305 to the naturally aspirated max. The latter would be way cheaper, and I would like to be able to beat my SRT-4 with the n/a 305. That would be cool as heck. I used to waste built 305 (and built 350) thirdgens with my little Dodge. I wonder if I could build my n/a 305, without messing with the rotating assembly, so that it would beat my old car.
Thanks for your input, Lethal. I agree. I am working on my drivetrain, as we speak. I'm still trying to figure out if I want to build a 355 with a turbo setup or build my 305 to the naturally aspirated max. The latter would be way cheaper, and I would like to be able to beat my SRT-4 with the 305. That would be cool as heck.
.... I am in the very same boat, and am leaning toward the 305. Go w/the latter, as the former has been done to death. My buddy swapped a stock 3.8 Grand National engine in his Regal, and recently ran an 11.90 with it. The 5.0 has much more potential though, IMO.
.... I am in the very same boat, and am leaning toward the 305. Go w/the latter, as the former has been done to death. My buddy swapped a stock 3.8 Grand National engine in his Regal, and recently ran an 11.90 with it. The 5.0 has much more potential though, IMO.
Interesting. Yeah, it would be cool to make a way sweeter than usual 305 powerplant. I don't want to yank the engine and build it for boost, though, so that's why I want to keep it n/a, as I am sure you understand, too.
It's tough to decide, though, because if I were to bore it to a 310, why not put LC pistons in the thing and then slap a turbo on it, ya know?
The 305 has potential in naturally aspirated form. I posted this before, but this is an engine build from the Engine Masters, and the numbers obtained were very sweet....;
Ah yes....I saw this article and read the heck out of it. I'm trying to figure out what camshaft to get, with fuel injection, and I am wondering if the Trick Flow aluminum heads would produce even more power than those Vortecs. It seems those guys built that engine with "budget" in mind. I think there is greater potential there, for a few more clams.
if you did similiar mods to on the camaro to make it in the same class as the dodge, the camaro will always win, more displacement= more power potential
you are all right tho.. it is amazing that a motor half the size of my 5.0 can destroy it. But on the flip size its also how much money is under the hood( not including labour. i hate when guys in clude labour or simple repairs to make it sound better)you put 10 g's into a 2.4 srt4 and put 10 g's in a sbc or sbf.... geuss who will win!the thing i find funny tho is these "street racers" who get into a honda with 17's on the feet and a coffee can exhuast and think they are bad ***. Props to you that your not one of them... i got a chevy 305 in my TA, TPI. let me put some trick flow heads, lower the compression ratio, chip the comp, put a mild street/strip cam, and a set of garrett T5/T4 turbos and a big intercooler. tune the stupid thing with a limited slip rearend and lets hit the twisties... (i get bored with straight lines)then we will see who wins..
It's not about displacement so much as it is how much air you can get into the motor. OHC motors are always gonna be more efficient at that.
But those inline motors are so much easier to turbo than these big V8s.
I would say you should turbo the 305. Smaller bores are less prone to detonation. And the 305's weakness is the small bore (when N/A).
But Im not sure if the slight difference in bore is enough to make a real difference in the amount of boost you can put on it.
But you want to avoid havin to pull the motor and pay to build it... I get that. I just dont see you being able to hang with any serious competition with an NA 305 unless you get that car set up PERFECTLY for it. This means a giant cam, carb, good heads, and put the camaro on a diet. But there's only so much you can do.
A little math says my 3rd gen at 3700lbs (w/driver) and your 422whp (which is quite something to say the least) would be in the mid 11's at 115+/-.
At 2970 you should be low 11's ( or better ) at over 120 mph. At my barge like weight I'd have to be making over 500 rwhp to get those numbers.
Remember this is all theory. There are plenty of 11 ( and 10 ) seconds 3rd gens here that relate real world numbers.
__________________ 1986 IROC-Z. 350 010 4-bolt block 10.1:1 static cr. 8.1:1 dynamic cr. Vortec heads w/ competition valve job milled to 63cc. Modified for screw in studs and guide plates. Comp Cams: Bee hive springs, Pro Magnum 1.6 rockers, Pro Magnum push rods, XR276HR cam. 670 Holley Street Avenger. RPM Air Gap intake. Cloyes Hex Adjust timing set and cover. Resized stock rods w/ARP bolts. Polished stock cast crank. Speed Pro coated flat top 4 relief pistons. Balanced assembly. Fluidampr balancer. SFI flexplate. MSD small cap distributor. MSD 6AL ignition box. Hedman LT headers w/ stainless 2.5" y-pipe. 3" Flowmaster no cat back exhaust. 700R4 w/ Trans Go reprogramming kit and upgraded 3-4 clutch pack. TCI Street Fighter 10" convertor. B&M trans cooler. Hurst dual gate shifter. 3" steel driveshaft with Spicer 1350 u-joints. 9 bolt 3.27. Spohn LCA relocation brackets. Boxed LCA's. Edelbrock strut tower brace. Energy suspension polyurethane bushings throughout. McCreary Dirt track 26" bias ply treaded slicks. 12.778 sec. 105.05 mph. 1.70/60'. 3700 lbs w/driver and 1/2 tank of 94 octane. 26(CDN)/23(US) mpg highway.
there will always be a faster/ better car out there... what ever you do someone else can do it better... the key is to try to acheve perfection without ever ataing it. do the abnormal, the crazy, the stuff that will gain respect and turn the heads of the haters as well as the lovers, and the entire time NEVER worry about what other people say.. im gonna build and turbo my 305 TPI later down the road because everyone in my town seems to think that 350's are the BEST... even tho the only run about 10 more horses then a 305. Time for the crazy's to come out and play...
P.S does anyone know how to stuff a nissan 4cyld and trans in a talon??? lol
I doubt you could ever build a n/a 305 that would touch your old SRT-4. As far as racing, the SRT is traction limited and very hard to get out of the hole. An F-Body would still need at least what you were putting down to compete. Its at a weight disadvantage but can much easily get going.
A little math says my 3rd gen at 3700lbs (w/driver) and your 422whp (which is quite something to say the least) would be in the mid 11's at 115+/-.
At 2970 you should be low 11's ( or better ) at over 120 mph. At my barge like weight I'd have to be making over 500 rwhp to get those numbers.
Remember this is all theory. There are plenty of 11 ( and 10 ) seconds 3rd gens here that relate real world numbers.
It's not all about power, Suspension comes in big in this senario when the srt4 launchs it transfers the weigt oof the drive wheels. In the camaro the already good rear suspension would transfer the power much better to the track, Improve that suspesion with stronger peices with rodends instead of bushings and a set of good slicks the camaro would definately have a good headstart on the srt4, so to speak.
also horsepower dont mean anything in a hole shot... the camaro has something a 4 banger lacks and thats torque... and lots of it... besides how many blowen alcohol dragsters are fwd??? fwd's are great with corners but the holeshots are dominated with the rwd... by the way when you beat all the big dogs, was that with a rolling start??? how fast were ya guys goin before you droped the hammer??? and if not were they roasting tires past the light???
Cool, I got a pretty good start on this thread. Fun stuff. I remember hoping to come across a thirdgen Camaro that would just humiliate me in my little SRT-4. I wanted this to happen, so I could ask him what he did to his Camaro to make it nimble and quick. I love the way our cars look. The baddest car I ever raced (I expected to lose, big time, and I did) was an 03 Lingenfelter Vette. Holy crap that thing was fast! I'd love to have my Camaro set up with the same powertrain as one of those biznitches. I'll have to get as close as possible, with the little money I have now and will have in the future. Shoot, if I have a 12-13 second street Camaro, I'll be happy. My favorite thing is getting on the highway and punching it....acceleration is my fave.
My L98 had full exhaust, bumped timing 2 degrees, and had a AFPR. It ran a best of 14.0@98mph. That's with the stock stall, stock 2.77 gears, and street tires. My best 60ft was a 2.06. It had 13's in it before I tore down the engine. It would have been a good race with a stock SRT4. Unfortunately when I was stock, I ran into 2 modded ones that beat me.
As far as running with yours? I'd say a H/C/I L98, or spray a bolt on L98.
__________________ 1988 IROC-Z 14.0@98mph 2.07 60 Ft (Stock setup)
L98 now with a little AFR, and a bit of comp cam. - [The new "slightly" faster L98]
I wasted H/C/I L98's though. With spray, they would have had a chance..I think. I beat LSX's, too, many of them but not all of them. A few Z06's humiliated me, but they weren't stock. The NEW Z06's would run me way good or beat me way bad I think...depending on the drivers. I beat two stock Z06's, until I topped out, and they passed me, which I expected, of course. Sometimes, when the drivers paid attention, the thirdgens and Vettes would get a good bit of a jump on me because they had automatics or knew how to drive a stick well and better off the line traction, but I'd always catch and pass them in a hurry, especially once I was in third gear, which came quickly--oh how my setup loved third gear.
Cobras.....bye bye snakey poohs.....cept two that I met that had some kind of wicked mods going on, one of them was the Terminator Cobra with something special going on under the hood. That dang thing was quick as heck. I remember that thing....it ate the pavement and crapped it out the tailpipes. I think the owner claiming 9 second quarters may have been exaggerating just a tad, but dang it seemed like a 9 second car, the way it pulled away from me.
She's pretty, but she's tired and needs help. I'm trying to decide what duration cam to get with the TFS 23 heads. It seems like a tough choice, to me. Any suggestions?
Asking a naturally aspirated 305 w/the stock TPI setup to haul such a heavy car into the 12's is asking a lot, not that it can't be done, but despite being a V8, it can barely breath having such an anemic bore as it is. I would recommend a cam with a more turbo influenced grind, w/thicker head gaskets later on to be used with those TFS heads. Try going for something like this if you really want it to scoot, but with a better breathing intake (or just siamese the stocker)....
That's a good setup, for sure. Turbo is always good when tuned right. Oh and I was also going to go with an HSR or Mini Ram intake for better breathing. If I go n/a 10:1 with the TFS heads, I should get a real increase in power, too, I would imagine. If I want to spend more on the intake/EFI system and less on tuning (it will probably balance out) I could get the MassFlo E.F.I. system. They have Forced Induction applications, too.
That's a good setup, for sure. Turbo is always good when tuned right. Oh and I was also going to go with an HSR or Mini Ram intake for better breathing. If I go n/a 10:1 with the TFS heads, I should get a real increase in power, too, I would imagine. If I want to spend more on the intake/EFI system and less on tuning (it will probably balance out) I could get the MassFlo E.F.I. system. They have Forced Induction applications, too.
Or you could just throw a carb on it.... All you need is air and fuel metered by a device that doesn't bottleneck airflow into the engine.
I'd love to EFI my car, but it's just cost prohibitive and gets in the way of performance.
Your 305 needs a serious cam and some REALLY serious heads to get anywhere near the power level you want... I'd take the money you plan on spending on aftermarket EFI, put it into a Holley 750 DP and put the rest of the money into stuff that either makes you more power or helps you put it to the ground.
Or... you could put it towards a turbo setup... and turbo the TPI.
It doesn't. You can get more performance out of EFI than any carb because you can control it better. Gotta love the way people on this site think sometimes
.... not only that, but if someone were to swap to a carburetor because of a preference, then a 750 double pumper for a 305 is simply way too much, especially for a street car. Stick w/EFI....
I have a guy here in orlando who builds THE fastest srt4 in florida. I have a friend with a 50 trim and all supporting mods. Its a 120 car on pump gas pretty much depending on if everything is going well.
not sounding cocky but i promise you there really isnt a srt4 that is a street car that will even beat me on motor from a dig. from a roll of course different story but thats where i have the spray
__________________ 1988 I-ROC Z
383. 200cc dart pro1 heads, Cammotion custom grind cam,240/246 560/560 Victor Jr. intake, holley 900 carb professionaly built by BLP, and a big shot.
It doesn't. You can get more performance out of EFI than any carb because you can control it better.
Gotta love the way people on this site think sometimes
I was curious to see what the guy would say about efi limiting performance. It made no sense to me when I read that. I guess he couldn't think of anything. he he he
yea carb technology has come a long way but so has efi... comparing the two is like the carb being a mentaly retarded kid running down the road vs a sprint racer... lets go talk to GM tech guys and see what they would stuff under the hood of a corvette!!!
My carb does the same. Its called a fuel curve. lol when u think u know everythig about carbs then theres another level. i know not too much but ill tell you thats theres much difference in power level maybe fuel economy but still
__________________ 1988 I-ROC Z
383. 200cc dart pro1 heads, Cammotion custom grind cam,240/246 560/560 Victor Jr. intake, holley 900 carb professionaly built by BLP, and a big shot.
Carbs work well, no doubt, and I would take a carbed beast over my weak tpi 305 any day. As far as building the ultimate engine, though, injecting fuel into each separate port is more precise and allows more precise tuning, therefore, finding power that carbs can't find. Plus, fuel injection is nice in the winter when starting your car.
Fuel injection is the best NO WAY AROUND IT... Look at the new Porsche Panmera it has the direct port fuel injextion... way to percise
Carb< fuel injection< Direct port fuel injection
Thats the way it goes
__________________ 1989 firebird bandit 2 edition #104 33,000miles--Borla 3" exhaust no cat, 125shot spray, jet stage2 chip, k&n drop in, 3.42 gear, B&M megashifter, transgo shiftkit, G-Force T/A KDW Radial Tire 295/35ZR18, 03 Z06 wheels 2" spacers all around The ablility to go fast isnt all about the HP its about the decisions you make in the .1 seconds on what move to make next... "i wouldnt call it rocket science i would call it science while driving a rocket"Ponies trot, Birds fly
My buddy just got a SRT-4 just like the one you had. Out of the box they are said to be a 14.2 car. His has a stage one turbo kit on it though. I have yet to race him since my baby is under a carb swap at the moment. But I have riden with him a lot while we are racing people. The only car that is somewhat close is my buddys mustang and he has a throttle body, headers, X pipe, short throw, and a programmer. I know his moms Jeep will walk all over him though (SRT-8)
__________________ Pulled over 20 Times and I just turned 18 I think they maybe harassing me
Those SRT-8 Jeeps are pretty cool. I raced one with my SRT-4, and he lost. I was way modded, though, as you know, if you read my thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92z28camarokid
My buddy just got a SRT-4 just like the one you had. Out of the box they are said to be a 14.2 car. His has a stage one turbo kit on it though. I have yet to race him since my baby is under a carb swap at the moment. But I have riden with him a lot while we are racing people. The only car that is somewhat close is my buddys mustang and he has a throttle body, headers, X pipe, short throw, and a programmer. I know his moms Jeep will walk all over him though (SRT-8)
Haha the funny thing its my buddys highschool graduation present and his dad was driven the car and his step mom was driven the jeep. We were talkin about it the next day and he said that he has seen two turbo kits for the jeep, one that puts it at 700hp and one that puts it at 1000hp. He also said with a cold air intake, exhaust, and chip it will put it at a lil over 500hp.
__________________ Pulled over 20 Times and I just turned 18 I think they maybe harassing me
stock versus .50 trim Garrett turbo 
Ponies trot, Birds fly
