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View Poll Results: Fiero vs. Camaro: Who would win?
I have a friend who has several Pontiac Fieros, including an '86 GT, and he's been poking a lot of fun at my Z lately. I have a hard time believing his V6 can measure up to my 350 -- no matter WHERE it's mounted...
Haven't had a chance to prove anything yet, but I'm anxious to find out.
I had an 1986 Fiero way back when and to me it was just a go kart on steroids. Don't get me wrong, it never let me down, but my Camaro is so much better as far as flat out performance. But....that doesn't count those few Fiero's that some owners stuff in a 350 or some other GM engine that isn't stock and then it becomes more of a Lotus Esprit baby brother of sorts.
Ok, for clarification, the one he's bragging on the most is actually an '87 Fiero with a 2.8 V6 out of a Beretta GT... I've made it clear on several occasions that it baffles me he would go to all the trouble and not drop in a V8 instead, nonetheless he's pretty smug about it.
EDIT: Also for further clarification, my car is an '84 Camaro Z/28 with a 5.7 V8 out of an '89 IROC-Z.
So he dropped in pretty much the same liter engine a v-6 Fiero has. That's like me putting in an LO3 into my camaro replacing the 87 LG4 I have in it now. A v-8 fiero would have been cool like a Northstar etc, but a Buick Supercharged 3.8 would have been a really good swap. Hell even the Grand National Turbo 6 would have been great.
Mods so far: MSD Cap and rotor, MSD ignition coil, Accel 8.8mm ignition wires, Hooker Super Comp Shortie Headers, Flowmaster 3in catback, underdrive crank pulley, custom cold air intake, NOS wet 125 shot, air foil and a lead foot! no E/T's yet. ...TURBO COMING SOON...Other mods include keyless entry and remote start, and Sequential Turn Signals.
I've known a couple of Fiero owners that believe that they are much better handling cars than anything else on the road.
They are light and there's not much to them so there is room for potential (I do like them, but they are a bit too small for my tastes). I think that a 350 might pull the front/rear ratio off, but I don't know if that's why he kept the 2.8. The 2.8/3.4/4.3 can be improved upon and along with it's weight may make a difference.
It is a good rivalry though. In fact, a poll might have been interesting.
I've known a couple of Fiero owners that believe that they are much better handling cars than anything else on the road.
They are light and there's not much to them so there is room for potential (I do like them, but they are a bit too small for my tastes). I think that a 350 might pull the front/rear ratio off, but I don't know if that's why he kept the 2.8. The 2.8/3.4/4.3 can be improved upon and along with it's weight may make a difference.
It is a good rivalry though. In fact, a poll might have been interesting.
So the curb weight of a Fiero is ~2500-2700lbs and the hp for a Beretta 2.8 looks like 135hp (same as an FBody). (I googled both numbers) So from that, the best is 18.5 lbs/hp. With yours at 3500 lbs you have to have something over 190hp to be close, but then he has the weight advantage if he adds any HP to it...
In all fairness, I own an 89 formy 350 firebird and an 86 fiero gt with the getrag 5 speed. The fiero's handling is much better than the bird's, it is no comparison, and I have left the fiero more or less stock except for springs and sway bar bushiings. The bird has the springs, struts, panhard rod, LCA with brackets, torque arm, subframe connectors, wonderbar, STB, and bushings.
As far as straight line performance, the bird kills the fiero, no matter how good you think you can drive stick. The bird just has the torque, although from 60-110, it is pretty matched if you can drive stick. After 110, the fiero falls on it's face. Engine swaps are easy in the fiero and currently I'm working on a 3800SC swap (L67).
Braking, goes to the bird again, I have TPIS crossed drilled rotors on all four wheels with TPIS racing pads and it easily out performs the fiero but even if it was stock, it would out do the fiero.
Appearance, goes to the bird again, it is close, but it really does go to the bird. Even more so at night, turn on the parking lights of both cars and the DUH factor kicks in, definitely the bird on that one. Yes you can make the fiero look better but I'm saying stock on stock.
Gas mileage, Fier-slow wins that one by far. Nuff said.
Parts available, I think is a tie. Body parts are a female dog but everything else is easy to get.
On that note, both are great cars and both are fun but it depends what you are after. A fun street car, the fiero wns. A powerhouse that no one would want to F' with, that is the bird, hands down. I forgot to mention that the bird is a TON more comfortable. Ever try sleeping in a fiero, I did and it sucked. I also slept in the bird but putting back the seats to lay down made that easier!
Also the fiero isn't a death trap, anyone that says that hasn't done any research. They had one problem in the four bangers in 84 and that got cleared up right away. I don't think they are a death trap when the have been running 10's in the quarter. That is one fast and stable death trap!
Handling aside, which being a mid-engine car and all having an advantage, our brakes are better. From what I remember and the work I have done on mine, stock Fiero brakes are solid discs to 1987. 1988 got better brakes finally. So unless a mod is made to them, third gen's win flat out even with stock.
Also the fiero isn't a death trap, anyone that says that hasn't done any research. They had one problem in the four bangers in 84 and that got cleared up right away. I don't think they are a death trap when the have been running 10's in the quarter. That is one fast and stable death trap!
Would have to agree with you there. Even the 79-93 Fox body used to be referred to as a death trap up top after the 1/8th mile, but they have proven themselves to be anything but. Good luck with the L67 swap, I thought about doing that a few years back as well....;
Fiero's to me are not death traps due to their space frame construction. As for the fire issues, those were resolved in 1984 and if they continued, they were because of lack of knowledge on servicing them. Mine was in a wreck and that thing kept on going. But as far as brakes go, yea, they were solid discs all around. Fronts were from the Chevette. There were some mods such as buying slotted or cross drilled which helped a lot.
The brakes on a fiero aren't that bad. Yes there is drilled and slotted upgrades and you can also put corvette brake kits on assuming you can put 17 inch wheels on your car to clear the rotors.
Yeah, 10.20 is somewhat fast for a car like that. I would love to pull up next to a rice machine with a car like that and tell him it has some bolt ons and needs a tune up, then rip him a new one.
Solid rotors are bad. They tend to get real hot real fast in stop and go traffic (from personal experience on my 1986 Fiero 2M4 5 speed). So anyone in the big city may benefit in putting the drilled or other retrofit brakes on an 84-87 Fiero.
No one seems to have commented on the traction between the two. Granted I haven't seen a heavily modified Fiero but I've seen well tuned v6 cars have superb traction from a stand still.
Traction yea. Most of the weight is in the back. Kindda like a reversed front wheel drive car. I was able to correct a fish tail quickly in it unlike my Camaro which can be scary once you lose it. Did a 720 degree spin out in my Camaro once in the rain.
Would I get another Fiero? Yes. But it would have to be a fully loaded 1988 Formula. Range in Fieros is limiting though. Small fuel tank.
__________________ 86 Camaro tired 305 low output only heaven knows how many miles on it. Lunati cam, Edelbrock torquer intake, Holley 670 Street Avenger Carb, Hei distributor, Headman headers, 373 gears, lock rite locker, shift kit, 2500 rmp stall converter. Best 1/8 mile time so far: 8.89
I would dispute that the handling in the Fieros is any better than a well-set up thirdgen. Until 88 the Fieros had suspension parts from the Chevette. It was never meant to be a performance car. If it handles well it's just because it's light, but I dont think it could hang with a properly setup stock thirdgen around a track. Maybe an 88 Fiero could, but the earlier ones are just mid engine Chevettes. Im unimpressed.
The other problem is that it's hard to swap a V8 into them. You pretty much have to find a fwd V8 car. I wonder if anyone has tried the Impala SS 5.3 drivetrain... with an LS6... in an 88 Fiero GT... amazing. Perhaps a death trap though.
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Last edited by InfernalVortex; 11-17-2009 at 07:04 PM.
Chevette front and Citation rear end. It was intended as a commuter car but with all things, someone, somewhere decided it would be fun to pump up the little door stop with wheels.
i would think that the impala would be much easier and worlds cheaper.
have you priced northstars lately?
you are looking at 10K+ for a done deal swap and about 6K for a junkyard swap.
A FWD V8 car? First thing that comes to mind when you say that is Cadi Northstar. Is that a common swap for a Fiero? I wonder...
They are a common swap. But as noted is a more complicated and expensive swap. In reality, kits are made to swap about any chevy small block into these cars. Check out http://www.v8archie.com/v8Archie/home.htm for some sweet rides and many v8 conversions that have already been done.
i would think that the impala would be much easier and worlds cheaper.
have you priced northstars lately?
you are looking at 10K+ for a done deal swap and about 6K for a junkyard swap.
No, I haven't price-checked them because my grandfather owns two Northstar DeVilles One's been breaking down a lot lately so I'm hoping he'll scrap it and I can salvage it (he never sells his old cars, they're all permanently parked).
Even though they started getting the fiero right just before they cancelled the program (typical GM), I don't remember them being much of a threat when they came out. A buddy of mine had a 2M6 back in the 90's and it was a fun car to ride around in. The V6 had decent torque which made it fun around town. I would give the advantage to the camaro. However, I used to go to budd's creek (MIR) and see a pack of these with the 3800 supercharged swap. They were pretty fast (mid-low 12's easy). I think they will get more popular in the future just based on how rare they are (relatively speaking).
A kid on the fiero forum has a built 87'. He swapped the L67 v6sc that is seen in the 02 gxp grand prix. There is an online store that sells a complete rebuild kit for the L67 that gives you 340rwph without a tune. Now this kid has video of him stompin an 04 z06. Don't underestimate these cars. Lots of them are sleepers, and damn quick. They almost have unlimited customization, from ferrari body kits, to ferrari interiors. Your mind is the limit!
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1988 Trans Am GTA Built 385 sbc
Built 700R4
Baer Track4 13" Front Brakes
YearOne 17" Snowflakes
Eibach Pro Kit
KYB GR2 Struts
UMI Suspension
A stock 85-86 GT 4spd will run side by side or in some cases beat any stock thirdgen. I have a friend who ran a 14.7 with a 86 4spd GT. Only mods being an underpulley and a k&n.
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Originally Posted by //<86TA>\\
well, fieros are bigger rust buckets than 3rd gens. And are death machines because of the short wheel base.
That's not true at all in either case. The Fiero shares several parts with other GM cars , axles , trannies ,the list goes on. I have also seen F-body steering racks put into fiero's with a little modification. They are as roughly as wide as an fbody. I also wouldn't go as far to say they are bigger rust buckets then f-bodys you don't see the rust on fieros as it has a space frame design. They are known for the rear frame rails getting soft. Which is all 100% easy to fix as you never see any of the repair work. I have yet to see a fiero with rotten floors.
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As for speed, i dont think your 350 will have a problem stomping it. They are all v6 cars, although v8's can be swapped in.
They are also 4cyls. I wouldn't be so sure about a 350 stomping it.
Last edited by The_Wraith; 12-13-2009 at 08:05 PM.
I'll comment since i've had a lot of experience with 60 degree V6's.
the 2.8 he put in there is a dog, 130 HP / 160 TQ. It makes max power at around 4500 RPM. If it's stock it probably runs a mid 15 at best. I've owned and built several. The heads can flow great with some extensive port work but the lower and upper intakes are terrible.
Now...With a top end swap from a newer 3400 V6 and a moderate cam you might have something to worry about.
That L67 rebuilt with the 340rwhp kit and no tune can run 10s easy. There is an online store that makes and sells rebuild kits ranging from a stock rebuild to the 340rwhp. I just dont really know why guys change fieros, ya know ferrari look a likes and ****. I just dont understand, rebuild the stock v6, or swap in a firebird v6 and rebuild it and turbo it. That's what id do.
__________________
1988 Trans Am GTA Built 385 sbc
Built 700R4
Baer Track4 13" Front Brakes
YearOne 17" Snowflakes
Eibach Pro Kit
KYB GR2 Struts
UMI Suspension
my 88 formula, no cat, cold air into the fenderwell, 5 speed, ported manifolds, and roller rockers outpaced a 94 mustang v8, i would say the same for a tbi 305 but not a 350 tpi. soo fun though.. really miss it i dropped a camaro 3.4 in it. but because i had to drill new starter bolt holes one the opposite side 2 make it fwd style i messed up and starters not straight. so bump on that project, guess ill drop it in an s10. comp cam ported heads. prolly about 200 or so
my 88 formula, no cat, cold air into the fenderwell, 5 speed, ported manifolds, and roller rockers outpaced a 94 mustang v8, i would say the same for a tbi 305 but not a 350 tpi. soo fun though.. really miss it i dropped a camaro 3.4 in it. but because i had to drill new starter bolt holes one the opposite side 2 make it fwd style i messed up and starters not straight. so bump on that project, guess ill drop it in an s10. comp cam ported heads. prolly about 200 or so. next
88 Formula owner here checking in with a video of my Formula eating my friend's 85 305. Granted, he'd kick my *** now because he's got a lot of money and time in the motor.. But these were the stock days and I'd toast him all day long. My Formula is stock.
I have pulled on a 350 TPI car out of the box with the 3.4 pushrod motor. The 2.8 would keep up but that was with some ported intakes and exhaust also my car was a 4 spd. The car is also forsale.
We have a little under $2000 into each of our cars (including buying the chassis with a blown motor/trans)... My buddy's is the flat black fastback with a manual trans. Mine is the shiny notchback, and I run a auto out of a grand prix.
We both run consistent mid 11s right now... I will be a bit faster after I finally do a mod to the motor/trans (both our motors are bone stock + turbo/intercooler). The manual car has TONS left in it with a few mild $100 mods (expecting 130 traps), and my setup with a mild trans build, and a few motor mods will be in the mid 10s on pump all day.
Beating a 350 GTA with a 160hp firebird engine? I found that weird. But I believe you! I donno though, my GTA is bone stock minus exhaust and ignition components. But right now I'm porting an aftermarket intake, gonna do headers, cold air intake, roller rockers, custom tune. And I bet she'll do 13.5. She was very very quick for a stock car, definitely not a 14.5 car. Maybe a 13.9-14.1
__________________
1988 Trans Am GTA Built 385 sbc
Built 700R4
Baer Track4 13" Front Brakes
YearOne 17" Snowflakes
Eibach Pro Kit
KYB GR2 Struts
UMI Suspension
to even compaire the to is so unfair its a no brainer a 350 equipted camaro or firechicken will leave a 2.8 fiero in the dust. its not even compairable. compaire the 2.8 camaro to a 2.8 fiero thats a little more fair. an the fiero smokes it. hell the fiero smokes a 305 equiped camaro or chicken anyday. you have to compaire things that are compairable. not things that are in totally dif classes. thats like me going around town an picking on the kids with neons an eclipses in my 454 big block fiero. its not fair I'd rather find corvetts an camaro an make them look stupid. The compairison is totally dumb. an with very little money you can make a fiero handel like a dream. the fiero is def the greatest platform for a DIY builder to make a relitivly cheap car an make it a great car. an saftey is not a issue with the fiero I've been tbones in my first one at 35 mph an didnt have a scratch on me. Fieros are probably the most under rated car in exsistence. I will run my fiero over any camaro or firebird anyday thats street legal. I couldnt tell you a track time cause theres no 1/4 mile were i live but I've havent seen the tail lights of a car in along time.
Traction yea. Most of the weight is in the back. Kindda like a reversed front wheel drive car. I was able to correct a fish tail quickly in it unlike my Camaro which can be scary once you lose it. Did a 720 degree spin out in my Camaro once in the rain.
Would I get another Fiero? Yes. But it would have to be a fully loaded 1988 Formula. Range in Fieros is limiting though. Small fuel tank.
Yeah i got sideways in my camaro in the rain once, leaving a stop from a red light that turned around a corner...i straightened it out fast, but it was too late, i still slid sideways and jumped up ontop of a median, smashed up my rims on the driver side and popped the front tire. if it wasnt for that median i would be in oncoming traffic.i wasnt even going fast. not sure about the fieros, someone down the street has one, but i have only seen it leave his house twice.
VS 
So the curb weight of a 
