just found out some awesome emissions test info! - Third Gen Association of Ontario - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

mmgodlike · 07-10-2007, 12:06 PM

Hey guys,

I found out some awesome news - if I get a 350 block in my 89 GTA, I can get a hotrod emissions classification because the 350 wasn't available in a manual tranny car...so I get to be tested under 1980 vehicle emission standards, which should be a breeze for my planned fuel injected setup! The NOX and CO levels can be a bit higher, and the HC levels are allowed to go through the roof.

Everything is falling into place nicely lol. I just need to pass my initial e-test so that I can drive the car for now :> If it won't pass, I can probably get a fudged receipt for some engine work and get a 1 year exemption, and by the time I gotta test again, I'll have my new motor in the car...woo!

--Mike

6speedIROC · 07-10-2007, 12:21 PM

I hope it works for you, but I understand that if that engine was offered in your vehicle (regardless of what transmission you have) it won't fly.

Just tell them it's a 400 small block..some ask for paperwork to prove it..

mmgodlike · 07-10-2007, 04:41 PM

I called the DriveClean office in my area, and they said they will give me a hotrod exemption as long as the manufacturer gives me a letter stating the engine wasn't offered with my transmission. Maybe not everyone will, but the lady I was talking to at DriveClean went and checked with her manager to make sure, so I think I'm alright.

mmgodlike · 07-10-2007, 05:10 PM

hmm...now you got me thinking...maybe i should just put in a 400

whats the largest stock small block that is readily available? Is 400 as big as they got? And will I be able to bolt up all my accessories and an aftermarket TPI setup to it (i.e. stealth ram), or was something different about the larger sizes?

The Project · 07-10-2007, 05:36 PM

Instead of 400 go 383 and stroke it.................

mmgodlike · 07-10-2007, 05:38 PM

isn't a 383 a stroked 350? do they actually have "stock" 383 motors? whats wrong with going 400? or stroked 400?

Will any small block bolt right up to my engine mounts? And will a TPI intake (aftermarket, but I don't think that matters in terms of compatibility) bolt right up to any small block motor? I just want to make sure I cover my bases before I go out and buy a motor to build up. I definitely want to stick with the fuel injection.

Hawk92z-TDZ · 07-10-2007, 06:32 PM

I have a stroked sbc 400, yes pretty much everything bolts up but you will need a 2 piece 153 tooth flywheel and a mini starter

383 is a 350 block bored .030over giving a 4.030 bore and has a 3.750 stroke
or
383 can be a stock bored 350 which has a 4.000 bore and a 3.800 stroke

Stock a 400 has a 4.125 bore and a 3.750 stroke,

my motor has a 4.155 bore (.030over) and a 3.800 stroke

depending on the flywheel you get you will need a conter weight as most 400's were external balanced and your 350 is internal balanced

George · 07-10-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmgodlike

...they said they will give me a hotrod exemption as long as the manufacturer gives me a letter stating the engine wasn't offered with my transmission.

Sounds counter-intuitive to me but with those government azzholes down is up and up is down.

I hope they don't change their minds when you go back to them.

So what would happen if you swapped in an auto tranny with the 350 later; would that change anything..lol

Daz · 07-10-2007, 08:03 PM

I think its just easier to get the TPI to run right and pass emissions.

chevhedz28 · 07-10-2007, 08:04 PM

you can get a classification where you don't have to take the test anymore I'm currently working on it.

mmgodlike · 07-11-2007, 02:59 AM

Thanks hawk, that helped clear up some of my questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevhedz28

you can get a classification where you don't have to take the test anymore I'm currently working on it.

here in ontario? I've never heard of such a thing...what are the requirements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daz

I think its just easier to get the TPI to run right and pass emissions.

I agree completely, and that's what I'm going to do for this initial e-test, and I'll be good for 2 years. But I have plans for lots and lots of mods, so getting that exemption will mean I don't need to swap my old motor back in every 2 years to pass another e-test

Quote:

Originally Posted by George

Sounds counter-intuitive to me but with those government azzholes down is up and up is down.

I hope they don't change their minds when you go back to them.

So what would happen if you swapped in an auto tranny with the 350 later; would that change anything..lol

I have no idea...I'm guessing that because the VIN on my car is for a manual car, the manufacturer can claim that a 350 motor was not in fact offered in my car. But now I'm thinking of going with a 400, in which case it won't matter either way.

So I tried to do some more reading on the matter, and if I'm not mistaken, the biggest small block available in stock specs is a 400, right (not counting the 427 LS7)? I think I'm going to try to find myself a 400 block to build up and stroke, and if I can't find one for a reasonable price, then I'll probably just get a 350 and stroke it, as originally planned.

--Mike

Daz · 07-11-2007, 06:57 AM

The VIN doesnt say anything about the transmission it came with.

mmgodlike · 07-11-2007, 07:14 AM

er, you are right...i dunno what i meant by that, wasn't really thinking...just scratch the VIN part, i think i wanted to say that the car was built as a manual so it could be claimed that the car wasn't available with a 350. Either way it seems like a grey zone to me for sure, but as long as the lady I talked to can make it happen (and it seemed like she could), I don't really care

Hawk92z-TDZ · 07-11-2007, 08:00 AM

Ya the 400 is the largest gen 1 sbc, the LS7 is a LSx set-up, wrong gen, totaly different, nothnig interchanges

I am in the middle of putting together another stroked 400, this one has the 4.155 bore also (0.030over) and a larger 3.875 stroke and also a LT4 stroker 396 for the 96 which is a 4.030bore and a 3.875 stroke, both fully forged

mmgodlike · 07-11-2007, 12:34 PM

since this car is most likely going to be my daily driver (at least I want it to be...it would be a shame to make such a beautiful thing a trailer queen), is it possible to retain at least SOME fuel economy from a 400 motor, assuming I use a mild cam and fuel injection? Or is that not even possible? What can be done to help improve fuel economy from a ground-up engine build? I haven't been able to find too much info on this topic.

Thanks,

--Mike

Daz · 07-11-2007, 05:27 PM

I wouldnt know..My car had a 454 the last time..It did pretty good on the high way though 14-16mpg

Hawk92z-TDZ · 07-11-2007, 06:24 PM

My car's a DD and the other 400 set-up thats being built is going into my DD winter truck

A 400 is no worse on gas then a 383 is, have had both

D's89IROCZ · 07-12-2007, 12:37 PM

that would be sweet if this works for you ...I have the same thing ... previous 305 5 speed .... now a 350 ( turbo) with 5 speed

.

Crossing fingers

6speedIROC · 07-12-2007, 12:57 PM

Good luck trying to get a letter from GM on anything..

When I went for my Hotrod tests I just brought the original 1986 dealer sales brochure that has the engine/transmission options to prove no 86 camaro came with a 350. They didn't even look at it. I was told (by the shop who tested) that even that if my car was, say an 87, when you could get a 350, my 350 gen 2 LT1 didn't count as 'hotrod' as they went on engine block displacement only.

You should try and see if a shop will run the Hotrod test for you if you say it came factory with a 5 speed in it (although the 350 and manual didn't exist to my knowledge), and you converted it to manual. Slip the guy a $50 to assist in the decision...

Bottom line, you need a shop to do the test and decide if it is a Hotrod or not no matter what somebody at MTO says. I tried getting Hotrod info from them and every single person I ever spoke to was a frickin moron. A test tech let me look in his Driveclean training manual, and I photocopied all the 'grey area' ie Hotrod and Kitcar pages in case I hit any snags..and didn't.

mmgodlike · 07-13-2007, 05:22 PM

a shop usually won't do a test under hotrod classification without a letter certifying the car as such from DriveClean. If they do, then they could get in a lot of trouble. Conversely, if you have a letter from DriveClean, every shop will without hassling you...so I think I'll go the route of getting the classification from DriveClean.

D's89IROCZ · 07-13-2007, 05:50 PM

So how do you get this classification ....

mmgodlike · 07-13-2007, 06:31 PM

just gotta send DriveClean the letter from the manufacturer...if I can manage to get one. If I have to, I'll go to a dealer and pay em to deal with GM and get me a damn letter...I'm sure GM would be more accommodating to them.

ibmtech · 07-13-2007, 07:48 PM

I don't they make such a thing in NY that I have heard of. If the car is ODB1 then it doesn't have to be smog tested. They do a safety inspection and just look for the usual items for emissions. IE.. Cat, Air Pump etc.. etc.. If it was equipped with emissions, it should be there for the inspection but doesn't have to work. Also the check engine light or SES can not be on at all or it will automatically fail the inspection. ODB2 cars are hooked up to the computer for emissions checked. Currently they are not checked for HC's or any other sniffer through the exhaust. But they don't care what engine you have in your car as long as it passes.

4 ever

George · 07-13-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmgodlike

... pay em to deal with GM and get me a damn letter...I'm sure GM would be more accommodating to them.

As it's not really a contentious issue you might eventually get a letter from them but I woudn't count on it any time soon.

I've had some issues with GM and the area rep etc. I found them to be complete scumbags - like dealing with the corrupt little suckers that you find in government agencies, city hall etc. No one at GM will do anything unless they have a gun pointed at their head.

6speedIROC · 07-16-2007, 02:48 PM

I second the good luck on a letter from GM or Driveclean. Why would they give you a letter for anything? It's not worth their time or sticking their neck out..

I've had 2 tests done under hotrod classification at 2 different shops with no hassle or questions at all. All they check is that you have a gas cap that passes. Just bring 2 if in doubt!

Hawk92z-TDZ · 07-16-2007, 08:56 PM

I never needed a letter to get my hotrod status