Why can't they buy the rights from SLP to make the T-Ram? All they'd have to do is borrow one, make notes of the design, since all the casts and **** were destroyed, reproduce one and go from there? Why can't this be? I mean there would be a huge market for it. Especially since there are hundreds of thousands of F-bodies, let alone the Hot rod tuners who put the TPI engines in their cars. We should start a petition to companies to buy the rights from SLP to produce the T-Ram. What do you guys think? Has this been done before and I'm just merely pouring salt in the wound? -Kevin

No, there wouldn't be a huge market for it. If there was, SLP would be producing them now.

I'd buy one. And I'm larger than life.

I think they would buy it, but they are too busy building fugly Ford Thunder/Rangers.

if you think about it..SLP really stopped making parts for the thirdgen right after the firehawks of 91 and 92....the "project" nearly bankrupted them and they never got back into the thirdgen market...although now, over 10 years later the people that buy them are generally go faster guys/girls....
in 91 and 91 there wasnt really a market for thirdgens....no there is..more then in 91 but less then the LT1 and LS1 market....

i dunno id say it would be worth a shot...i might buy one

I don't even know what a T ram is...

I have heard of it, but never seen one...

Or they could just get the drawings and schematics from Ryan Falconer since he's the one that designed it and initially produced it. I wouldn't be surprised if he has some old tooling laying around........

There is no market. Sure, a lot of us would love to have them, but not enough to support making it all from scratch. How many people would really buy them? Between the Mini, the stealth, the street, the super, the First, the OEM, TPIS, AS&M, and ramjet, do we need ANOTHER TPI intake? The T-Ram was great, but it's not magic. It's just as good as any other. I'm not gonna argue the exact benefits of which is the best, but there all fairly close, and WAY to close to dictate yet ANOTHER intake on the market.

Aside from coolness factor, and yes, it's cool -:hail: - but aside from that, there's no need. Well except for all the Firehawk wannabes.

Let it go. Cherish it if you can find it. Look at how cool the Ronal Firehawk wheels USED to be. I think even my grandma has'em on her caddy.

The Ronals are still cool. Your gramma must be one pretty cool chick.

here ya go tram shots

The t ram is done. It doesnt flow as well as LT1, Mini or stealth. Thats like saying someone should start making TPI intakes again.

I've seen one in real life.
I stood there in awe for a few minutes.
It was BEAUTIFUL.

I took this pic at a local show in SC.

Here's the photo link . . .

Pic Link

Hope it works.

i saw a true firehawk at TGO nats. that makes me sooo much cooler then you!. :lala:

OK, I admit it. My grandma is cool...and she has NO caddy. The Ronals are still absolutley Badd A$$ , but you gotta admit that 2 years ago, if you saw them, they caught your attention, and you made a point to go check'em out. Now, it like "hey look, he's got those too".

I guess I'm bitter. I scowered ebay on and off for years looking for a set of those rims. The day I heard they were going back on sale I coulda cried. I admit that my NOT buying them cuz they're trendy is no better than someone who IS buying them because they're trendy, but it's just disappointing.


Sorry for the OFF TOPIC rant........Here's a pic:

Bigals87z28:

Are you talking about Bruce's GREEN Firehawk? I think that's the ONLY green one. I could be wrong.

That would make you SOOOOO much cooler than Ragtop89.:lala:

that would be the one.

big al = da friggin coolest!!

To the guys that want a T-ram so bad why dont you use a Stealth Ram base(the design is allmost the same) and make a T-ram type top for it. slp holley Stealth Ram heres some pics of the top http://members.shaw.ca/s15/tuned_por..._resources.htm

Thanks for posting some pics of the T ram...Now I know what it looks like and while thinking about it I have seen that before. I don't love it. Actually, I wouldn't buy it for my car...I think its too gawdy lookin...Oh well, if ya'll like put on, dyno it and let me know how it works over whatever you are running now...

I myself wouldnt use the it for performance reasons but I think it looks allright.I just posted the links for others to see the lid design.

basic flow diagram... I have several angles of the t ram itself. If anyone wants them, ill email them to you.

HEY!!

I used to see Firehawk rims on ebay years ago sell for about the same price as the new batch. Even saw an auction for Alfa Romeo GTA Ronals that looked just like the Firehawks, only in 15s

Hey BigAl, I saw that car down at Atco about 2 or 3 years ago. I mentioned this before a while ago, and it had turned out to be someone on heres car... he told me if I were to see it again, tell the guy to call him cause he wanted it back. Ive never seen it since.

Do you have numbers to support that?

id like to see some numbers on that too. because the firehawks made 350 HP @ 5500 RPM / 390 FT/LB @ 4400 RPM with a 6,000 RPM redline with exhaust/headers, cold air induction, lightweight pistons (stock for 90-92????) and aluminum heads..jsut a thought i guess

also that t ram flows 1050 cfm anybody have numbers for mini ram and stealth??

the only way a company could make money and a market for the T ram is if they could find a way to make them so cheap that they could sell for less the the other avail intakes.



if ANYONE made a better then stock TPI design replacement intake and sold it for under $200, there would be a market and they would make money.


but asking them to make a intake that wont sell well is stupid. regarless of how it flows.




a better thing to do would be to design some form of plastic composite intake that can be easily made cheap, flows better then TPI, and sell thoes.

if you can buy a mini ram for less than $200 bucks let me know cause im in the wrong place.

im talkin entire set up not just the intake, there are runners and a plenum involved also so with all of this you are looking at near a grand--im sure they could make somethin like that...if somebody looked hard enough i bet those castings arent even destroyed

I thought they still made tpi intakes. I understand that edelbrock and slp among others still make high flow tpi intakes. Aftermarket but still tpi.

Untouched stealthram flows 275 cfm per runner which equals 2200 cfm total. An untouched mini ram flows 265 cfm per runner which equals 2120 cfm.

exactly... you made my point without meaning to.



if the price was that low for a well flowing TPI replacement manifold, then the demand would be huge and they would make some money.

but if it was priced the same as the miniram, would you choose the T ram or the miniram(assuming that the Tram at that point was so common that you wouldnt go for the wow factor and instead look at the power)


alot more people would buy intakes if they were cheaper. thats a market that hasnt been touched yet.

While each individual runner might flow that, the intake doesn't flow the sum of its runners, instead it flows what it greatest restriction is, i.e. the throttle body openings.

I would venture to say that the t-ram, mini-ram and stealth ram all flow similar CFMs but their different designs allow for different rpm ranges, thus resulting in different head/cam combos to maximise their effects.

Remember it's simply a question the flow numbers but also flow characterstics.

The T-RAM isn't the same as a stock TPI intake system. They are very rare and were used on the 91/92 Firehawks.

I think you missed the point. My reasoning is that they still make the tpi which is what was contradictory. I know what the t-ram is. duhhh

No, not "duhhh" ...you were splitting hairs with that comment. It was a given that he wasn't referring to aftermarket TPI replacement parts, making your comment out of context and unecessary. The fact is that you really weren't contributing to the post with what you said.

Also, not "duhhh" b/c some people still don't know what a T-RAM is and have never seen one...that's why "What is a T-RAM?" threads still pop up from time to time. There were kids who were 4 yrs old when those intakes came out that are just starting to drive now and don't know 3rd gens like some of us do..that's why there are so many repetitive newbie questions on here half the time-kids who were still pooping their pants when I was driving a 3rd gen to high school.

Take the attitude to another thread.



..Ok, so back to the topic and the people who were contributing to it....

Get off your high horse man. I was just making a point that the tpi is still desired. So stating if something is desired then maybe it should be considered to be made.

first you have to question WHY it is desired.

what most people desire from their TPI is a modded one.. or a aftermarket manifold....

very few people want, errr, desire, a stock(read "restrictive") TPI system... but why do so many people have it then? PRICE! they cant afford to get modded ones... or if they can, they would rather spend that much cash elsewhere.

there is a diff between desire and demand. esp in sales. i desire a M112 supercharger. but i cant afford one, therefore i dont raise the demand for one.


now what i invision someone doing eventually (perhaps me if i can ever get a shop) is someone mass producing a composite (read:"plastic") intake manifold that is cheap to make.

if designed good and sold at a low price, people would bang on my door to get one. in my personal opinon the target price for the demand i want is anywhere below $200

Tpi is tpi wether it is modded, aftermarket or what have you. And thats the statement that was made. And if you say there is no demand for it then why are they still even selling them, someone must be buying them. And to say people who go tpi cant afford them I think is ridiculous. Aftermarket complete tpi manifolds are more expensive than most of the other fuel injection type manifolds. I agree the manifolds tend to be ridiculously priced except maybe the stealth ram.

Update. I just was looking through the summitracing catalog and most of the high flow tpi intakes and accessories are on back order. Looks like a demand to me.

you have obviously missed my point.
rather then restating it im just going to ignore you.

does anyone else understand what i was saying?

I for one think that there is a market out there for it, and if I had it my way there would be one in production right now. Even though the Stealth Ram is a great intake, the Vette guys cant use it bcuz it wont clear a stock hood, and that would be a very valuable market if someone made a intake that flowed better then the TPI, but didnt cost a grand or more for the mini.

Wouldnt you buy an intake if you could keep most of your lowend but gave you a ton of topend like the mini, but cost in between mini and stealth?

And you missed mine so now we are even.

Ok, to redesign, redevelop and make these intakes over again with new tooling and all that would cost more then you could possibly imagine. Stealth ram doesnt fit under bird hoods or some camaro hoods... doesnt seem to stop certain people? The T-Ram would not be worth it. You might want it, and maybe some of your friends... but you would need a whole hell of a lot of people that want this so bad because it has some type of advantage over other parts... But the tram doesnt. The T would cost as much if not more then the mini and a fully loaded HSR or super ram.

What we need is someone to make a LS1 type manifold for gen 1 small blocks. I only see a problem with how to mount the tb since the t-stat housing is right there. you would have to make a remote tstat like on the LT1 intake. This doesnt seem that hard to make. Someone should really get on to this and do it. It would make tons of money and probably wouldnt cost much. a plastic mold put on a test engine could show the great amount of flow it produces. injection molding is so much cheaper then making a whole intake out of a block of aluminum or casing a mold.

I am assuming that you have some knowledge and cost of producing things like that so I wont question your cost part. I just dont understand how a plastic manifold would be cheap then a aluminum manifold. Aslo the manifolds on the LS1s arnt plastic, they are a type of mix between nylon and some other substance. I know the new aftermarket manifolds arnt even plastic. Also how would a LS1 type manifold be cheaper then a redesigned T Ram? They are basicaly the same thing. I think a T Ram type manifold could be made and sold for about $800-$900. I think people would buy it if you with it you keep about 80% of your lowend but gain atleast 25-30hp on the topend. I think it would really do wellif it was even had a CARB #. Just look at the people in CA and other states that do a visual and require a CARB # that are looking for a improvement over even the SuperRam. I think 1 of the things that would be important too is if it could be ported and the base could fit not only 1205 and 1206 felpro gaskets, but would also work on the vortec heads.

The first part wasnt meant as a flam, I just didn't understand your reasoning, especially the plastic cheaper then the aluminum?

the reason we cant make a tubular intake shaped similar to the LS1s is that we have siamese intake ports while the LS1 has evenly spaced out intake and exhaust ports.

also our head angles are diffrent so the intake would have to be taller... making the throttle body heigher up, so you wont have your TB hitting the thermostat housing.




injection molding is just a cheaper way of producing parts, esp in low volume, compared to casting alum.

Will an injected mold intake be able to with stand the pressures that involved on the intake side of an engine?

Thats why there are engineers that make that crap work... I didnt say take a LS1 intake and adapt like an LT1 intake, but actualy make a intake that would sit just like an LS1 type intake. Only problem would be EGR i think...

I know the LS1 intake isnt made out of plastic, but its a form of plastic polymer. There is a better chance of a better intake developed and put out before the tram would be put out again. Yes, the tram would be cool to have, but only for a historical purpose really. If your gunna spend the money on a t-ram, your gunna wana get an intake that will take advantage of all the air it can. I dont see $800 happening at all. SLP will want some since GM isnt pumping the full of money, and Im sure whoever makes it again, will have the price high for an intake that is this rare. IF they somehow improved the T-ram's design, i would agree on wanting one, but its really not worth it. If it was, SLP would of remade the tram long ago.

Read here if you want to know about plastics http://plastics.dupont.com/NASApp/my...4&locale=en_US Zytel HTN is the stuff to use.

Buy one of these and you can get a Stealthram to fit under any hood you want.

http://www.fasterdeals.com/garageindex.html

I'm planning on getting one when I convert to the HSR. Of course, if Holley would offer a version that cleared our hoods and had an EGR provision, that would be even better. But that's a different topic altogether...and I shouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.

what im saying is that with the port layout a SBC has, it cant use a similar layout as the LS1.

the only way it would work is if you ran it diffrently and ended up with a tall intake that looked like the 502 ramjets intake.

and then it wouldnt be "sitting" like a LS1 intake.

I believe they could make an intake similar to what the ls1 intake material is made from. The reason I know first hand about these composite materials is I work for a lab that utilizes these materials for chemistry and products to withstand harsh acidic chemicals as well as volatile. I have seen the price tag on these composite materials and they are not cheap. Believe it or not aluminum would still be a more viable option as it is a cheaper material.