TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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I had a feeling posting that link would stir it up! It's kind of funny how it came about. I traded a buddy of mine a 91 Mustang LX 5.0 for my current 89 Formula 350. He happened to be on BBK's page looking at the new 5.0 intake and saw the projected TPI intake and called me. I too am excited as I haven't been able to decide which intake setup to go with! You see, it took a mustang guy to come up with the good info.
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i wanna see, whats up i need pics or more info ugggg ahhhhhh im so confused in my decision in what to get i love the runner look of the stock tpi but i want something better but i want the stock look is the bbk gonna look stock????
I don't care if it looks like a baboon's ***, I just want a great performing TPI replacement setup that is affordable, some competition for the HSR... Of course they need to offer it for Vortec heads before too long too.
__________________ Ray87Z
-87 Z28 w/ a Vortec headed 350.
R.I.P. - Just totaled by a 16 year old girl in a 94 Mustang, go figure....
-New ride, 94 Z28 - LT1, A4 w/ 3.23s
new mods: Edelbrock headers, gutted cat, magnaflow catback, Moroso CAI
My brother was able to talk to the Vice President of BBK, Ken Murphey, at the SEMA show today about the new intake that will be released by his company. He is a really nice guy and has some great ideas and great products. He seems excited about this new intake and it should be a killer setup for our cars. In this post I will list all the information we were able to obtain about the intake. It is important to note that this intake is still in the development stage and all this information is subject to change.
As stated above this intake is still in the prototype stage and only the intake base is complete. They did not have the prototype at SEMA so sorry no pictures available yet. Below are the questions from my previous post and their answers, I have also added and taken away a few questions. It is important to note that the answers are not the exact answers or wording we got from the guys at BBK, I have put them into my own words:
Q) What is the price range of this new intake setup?
A) The price is targeted around $600.
Q) When is this intake scheduled to be released?
A) They should have it out for summer 2005 sales.
Q) Will the stock throttle bodywork with this new intake?
A) Yes
Q) Will there be a vortec head version available?
A) As of the first release probably no, but it very possible there will be in the future.
Q) Will this intake be 50 state legal?
A) They are working on CARB legality but are running into problems with the cars that came stock with a 9’th injector. I am not exactly sure what problems are so I can’t say any more.
Q) What is the height of the manifold, for people who want to fit it under stock hood and strut tower braces?
A) This intake is going to be slightly taller then stock TPI but will still fit under a stock thirdgen and corvette hood.
Q) What comes with the manifold?
A) This intake will come with a setup for both camaro and corvette EGR, the bolts for the intake, and all gaskets minus the intake manifold gaskets.
Q) Will stock fuel rails work with this intake?
A) Yes, the stock fuel rail will work with this intake.
Q) What RPM range is this intake designed to make peak power?
A) This intake is designed for mid to upper RPM’s. It is not going to be a high RPM screamer like the Mini-ram and will not die up top like TPI so it will be in-between.
Q) How does the low-end power of this intake compare to TPI?
A) It is too early in the development to answer that exactly but it should still have low end grunt.
Q) What is the length of the intake runners?
A) It is too early to know.
Q) How many piece intake is this (for example TPI is 3 piece; a base, runners and plenum)?
A) The top end of this intake is not fully complete yet but as planed as of now it will be 10 pieces. A base, 8 individual runners, and a plenum.
They had a question for us. They want to know what color to powder coat the manifold. For example if you look at the mustang manifold it is flat black. I think it would look good silver, black, or no powder coat at all. I gave them the information about this site so hopefully they will come to this site and let us get involved in the design process.
Eight individual runners is interesting. Thanks for posting the information. We are all waiting for the developements and pictures. Sure sounds interesting. Allen
Almost forgot. I vote for the silver color.
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 11-04-2004 at 07:53 PM.
Stock fuel rails and EGR plus 10 pieces. Ok this reminds me of a TPI whipple thing I saw in the late 90's. Pipe for runners, short length then 1 piece plenum where the Whipple went.
Well Maybe I'll keep that extra set of fuel lines around till we see pics.
Q) What is the price range of this new intake setup?
A) The price is targeted around $600.
That price is higher than listed on BBK's website and would not be as "Sought after" at that price.
From their website: This clean sheet design manifold will fit the popular 305/350 TPI Camaro,Firebird and Corvette models and is to be priced at a very affordable $399.99 making it the best performance value around.
Unfortunately, (for BBK) this will pretty much end my interest. 10 pieces?? $600? No vortec version initially?
I applaud their effort for trying to put out a a decent TPI replacement, especially one that makes use of stock pieces like the fuel rails and throttle body, but it falls short, in my eyes. 10 pieces????
Too bad someone can't just copy the LT1 intake, except to add a thermostat housing and the necessary coolant passages. It's 1 piece and has solid performance. All that plumbing is just 'too busy' looking for me to get a converted LT1 intake.
I guess I can feel pretty comfortable ordering a Stealth Ram in the near future.
-Dave
Last edited by ChevelleFan; 11-04-2004 at 08:36 PM.
Powdercoat the recesses and cast areas black, leave the highlights (i.e. "BBK" logo) and machined surfaces natural aluminum (silver) and it'll look great.
If it has individual runners and takes the stock rails, it has to be somewhat similar in design to the stock TPI. I'm thinking maybe a split plenum, like the SuperRam but with the box chopped in thirds and the center third eliminated, and the fronts of the two sides tapered together to meet the TB flange. How sweet would THAT be?
Originally posted by TheGreatJ Powdercoat the recesses and cast areas black, leave the highlights (i.e. "BBK" logo) and machined surfaces natural aluminum (silver) and it'll look great.
If it has individual runners and takes the stock rails, it has to be somewhat similar in design to the stock TPI. I'm thinking maybe a split plenum, like the SuperRam but with the box chopped in thirds and the center third eliminated, and the fronts of the two sides tapered together to meet the TB flange. How sweet would THAT be?
I doubt the runners will go across the intake base like TPI.
vote to leave it plane natural as cast finish so we have option to powder coat it ourselves the color of our choice. Natural aluminum finish looks good enough as is. If it comes powdercoated, does that mean we cant re coat it a different color? Not to familar with power coating but i can imagine you can.
Anyway, if its inbetween tpi and miniram, thats superram territory. At 600 bucks, thats a steal for super ram performance that costs 1200 or so new and 750-800 used.
Dont forget that alot of people have problems installing the superram and i wonder if a 10 piece intake will be difficult to install. Also clearance issues around the base with the bolts.
Originally posted by ChevelleFan
I applaud their effort for trying to put out a a decent TPI replacement, especially one that makes use of stock pieces like the fuel rails and throttle body, but it falls short, in my eyes. 10 pieces????
Too bad someone can't just copy the LT1 intake, except to add a thermostat housing and the necessary coolant passages. It's 1 piece and has solid performance. All that plumbing is just 'too busy' looking for me to get a converted LT1 intake.
I strongly disagree. The LT1 isn’t that great of a performer, the stealth ram is much better in my mind.
As for the people that say $600 is too high it’s a steal for what else is out there:
Miniram: 1 grand+
Superram: around $800
Stealth ram: $475-515 depending on adjustable regulator or not
Also the upper intake is not made yet. So it may turn out to be a one piece upper we will just have to wait and see.
Originally posted by r3pp3r My car seems to already be over the hill in the mid to high 5 range. Maybe with a good tune it will be better. I just don't think superram can breathe enough for LT4 hotcam.
People are running bigger cams than the hotcam with a superram. It isnt that wild of a cam.
Originally posted by Orr89RocZ what do you mean? super ram motors peak in the 5-6 range. making great power mostly at 5500rpm. Alittle porting and you got 6000rpms tops
Hows that not optimal? just asking. LOL
Miniram is way above that at over 6-7grand rpm as optimal.
Super ram is a nice intake but it dies really fast after 5200-5500. If BBK makes a intake that has about the same down low as the super ram but holds to around 6000 it would be a perfect intake for what most people are looking for.
i agree with 2000-6000rpm band. that is a great power band but super rams already do that. At least all the ones i see hold power well to 5800rpm or so with just alittle porting. good cam and heads help that out too.
Wow. 8 runners??? I can't figure out why they'd do that. That's not to say it's bad, I just can't see how. ALL other intakes with runnes at least have 2 adjacent runners together.
hehe...follow the logic, and allow me to hypothesize!!!
We know it uses a seperate base, and STOCK fuel rails, and external runners.
That means, due to runners, LT1 and HSR styles are out.
The base has to accomodate the stock fuel rails, so the runners either need to wrap around to the outside like TPI or LPE-SR, or go up through the middle.
If they go outside, it either has be a long tube set-up, which first is re-inventing the wheel, AND kills upper RPM's. The Super ram style pizza box provide the same RPM range as BBK suggests, but again, re-inventing the wheel, and then there's the thing about the 8 runners. WHY 8 runners?
That leaves going up the middle. The HSR uses runners up the middle, but they're cast as part of the base. What would make the BBK different??? WHY do they need seperate runners?
Here's my thought: The runners form an "X" like pattern if you were looking straingt at the intake. Similar to the Super ram, only from the inside. This would effectively give you a mid to upper RPM potential (like the SR) but without all the bulky crap of the SR. Why individual runners? It would be difficult and costly to cast a big ole single piece "X" runner. You could simply make 8 small ones, all identical, all from the same mold.
...I forgot my BIGGEST point for "my" idea. MARKETING! It's gotta be different. You can buy any one of several different intakes, for different rpm ranges, at the whole spectrum of costs.
If YOU were gonna make a new intake, even if it didn't perform better than others, wouldn't it have to look UNIQUE???????????
...oh, and I vote for NO FINISH. I would have it coated myself.
nice idea but what about 50 state legal? where the EGR and Fuel pressure regulator gonna fit? If its under the X then that X will be pretty tall.
I am getting excited and think this base will be a whole different style of TPI. not like stock or the aftermarkets bases today. something completely one-off designed piece!! It should be amazing! 8 runners, i hope it looks great. Maybe like a ZR1 LT5 kinda arrangement.!! That be kick azz!!
Originally posted by ChevelleFan Too bad someone can't just copy the LT1 intake, except to add a thermostat housing and the necessary coolant passages.
There is already a copy, it's called a Miniram made by TPIS Specialities.
$1200.
Would it be possible instead of doing an X, to make the stock rails work with some kind of T-Ram spinoff? From what I have seen, it isn't the flow of the runners that choke off the intake, it is the base. What if you made a SuperRam, but moved the runners farther appar. That way they wouldn't be so close in the base and the ports in the base could be opened up?
BTW, did he say it would be 8 runners, base, and plenum or was that just a guess? If it is like stated before, that has got to be a pain to install.
Surely he mis-spoke or we're misunderstanding him or something, how would they get around having to bolt down 8 seperate runners? There's not really enough room for that and it would be a pain in the *** to assemble with all the gaskets and crap. I think he just meant it would have 8 individual runners instead of siamesed and that kind of stuff, but surely they won't each be seperate pieces that bolt on...
And with the X model thing above I don't see anyway the stock fuel rail would work... It sounds to me like perhaps the guy didn't really know much at all about the intake since it's still so early and he doesn't seem to be one of the engineers/designers...
Either way for $600 it better be one heck of a performer or the HSR (especially once the Vortec one is out) will just run away with all the sales... At least I'd buy a HSR over it...
Actually, I wonder if it won't turn out to be very similar to that Ford 5.0 manifold setup they have on their page, just for GMs... That would make some sense...
__________________ Ray87Z
-87 Z28 w/ a Vortec headed 350.
R.I.P. - Just totaled by a 16 year old girl in a 94 Mustang, go figure....
-New ride, 94 Z28 - LT1, A4 w/ 3.23s
new mods: Edelbrock headers, gutted cat, magnaflow catback, Moroso CAI
Originally posted by doc I'd be beyond excited if this thing was a copy version of the LS1 intake but for our 3rdgen cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was said above that it should be different than what is already out there. Agreed.
If this new TPI intake is not very similar to the LS1 intake, I would like to work with a company to get one designed and developed.
I don't believe that it's possible to have an LS1-style intake simply due to the layout of the intake valves. The LS1 intake has staggered intake ports, but on the SBC they are paired. This could make plumbing an issue.
Surely he mis-spoke or we're misunderstanding him or something, how would they get around having to bolt down 8 seperate runners? There's not really enough room for that and it would be a pain in the *** to assemble with all the gaskets and crap. I think he just meant it would have 8 individual runners instead of siamesed and that kind of stuff, but surely they won't each be seperate pieces that bolt on...
Yeah, I thought about that too....
Quote:
And with the X model thing above I don't see anyway the stock fuel rail would work...
My pic isn't to scaled or proportional or anything, just use your imagination!
I'd like to see what it does, but I need a more RPM friendly intake. Looks like I am stuck w/ the miniram again... This cam I got should peak about 6500-6600 so that BBK piece doens't look like its for me...
__________________ Chris Martin
Director Public Relations - Middle Tennessee F-Body Association - www.tnfbody.org
- 1989 TA: built 355 c.i.d., HSR, TFS 23* heads, 227/233 .560"/.569" 112 LSA, ProBuilt 700r4, Edge 3400 2.5 STR Converter
i dont see what you guys are talking about with losing customers already.
If this intake is smog legal, fullfills the powerband of 5500-6000rpm or so, and fits under stock hood, then this is the deal of a lifetime. Similar to superram which is expensive as all hell, and miniram, which is expensive, has too high powerband, and not smog legal.
If you want TPI, then this intake is the good stuff!! for 600 bucks its the cheapest alternative. HSR is good intake but again, its taller creating some clearance issues, and not smog legal. Fully upgraded TPI all hogged out can rev to 5500-5800rpm. But factor in cost of 400 base and 400 runners, and thats 800 right there. Not to mention all the port work your gonna have to do. Even with SLP runners for 250 thats still more than BBK design so far.
If you dont want to spend 600+ on an intake, then go carb or stock TPI cuz thats all your gonna be able to afford.
I also agree with Orr89RocZ. $600 is definitely worth it if it can out perform the super ram. I also think it will sell extremely well if it out performs the super ram since it won’t be used on just thirdgens and corvettes it would be used for all types of SBC EFI setups and conversions.
Don't forget, They will read this too!
They need to be market saavy to get the thing to move and maximize profits. This is surely to be something they will investigate.
Therefore, I want it for $400 like the original ad stated !!!
No finish on it as well. Keep cost down and we can do what we want with it.
Originally posted by Orr89RocZ i dont see what you guys are talking about with losing customers already.
All I was saying is that the $400 was appealing for someone who was looking for a cheap alternative, and the $200 jump may have put it out of their price range.
Originally posted by Goumba T All I was saying is that the $400 was appealing for someone who was looking for a cheap alternative, and the $200 jump may have put it out of their price range.
Like me LT1 heads and an intake modified by Millican will be my choice for whatever TPI car I get next after this one (want a late 80's vette). For $400, I would've bought one of these as soon as they were available, even just to sit in my garage for a few months (or longer!) to await my next project.
hey i know yall have talked about the intake DIE off points of the hsr mini ram but what about the lt1 intake? whats the rpm limit on it?i have a xe292 cam and it says its good till 6500 but i dont know if i will need to go that high... but just wondering
That XE292 is going into the 383, not the 305, right?
Either way, that is NOT going to be fun to tune.
Nevertheless, it should breathe to 6500RPM without much trouble. Before installing the intake, the runners can be cleaned up quite a bit, even with just a flat file. The runners are rough and have some unnecessary bumps (one or two per runner) that could stand to be removed.
That be kick azz!! 
