TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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Abubaca, that looks surprisingly familiar. I had a few posted up quite a few years ago, something very similar to that and another closer to a traditional tunnel ram design. Most agreed the traditional tunnel ram design would probably work better, though I never got around to actually building either. What else is new.
Now where did I miss the $200 jump? Their site still lists for $400 and I'm still waiting on pics here.
Originally posted by 86IROCTHD hey i know yall have talked about the intake DIE off points of the hsr mini ram but what about the lt1 intake? whats the rpm limit on it?i have a xe292 cam and it says its good till 6500 but i dont know if i will need to go that high... but just wondering
The problem with miniram and LT1 isn't the die-off point, it's the torque you give up in the street-use range. I think either of those intakes would be good for 6500, if your bottom end and valvetrain can take it.
Talked to BBK guy at sema, they did not have an intake with them... They said to expect something between Jan. and Spring time... No pics or design diagrams tho...
It's not coming out when they originally said, it's going to cost more (possibly), and from the sounds of it, it's going to be in Superram territory for revs.
I think I might end up getting an HSR soon afterall, unless some information changes soon. It may not end up like that, but I don't know if I want to wait until spring to find out. :shrug:
__________________ 90 Camaro IROC-Z TT: Maybe it'll run right someday. "TWNTRBO" 96 Talon TSi AWD: 11.9 @ 117 & 31mpg- daily driver. "ALLTRBO" 87 Fiero GT: Old, stock, and slow- backup beater. "NOTRBO"
This isn't Burger King, you don't get it your way.
Seriously guys, come on. If I were BBK, I'd be a little irratated with you guys. It's gotta be this price, it's gotta be this color, it's gotta have this RPM range, and we want pictures NOW!
"most" people want a mid range RPM intake. Those who want all the top end already have multiple choices.
LOL, I know, just stating that I don't think I'm gonna wait to find out, though I may have to anyway depending on what comes up.
I think most people (myself included) are disappointed in the fact that they stated that it would cost $399 and be ready at the beginning of the year, then the price went up and the release date got potentially pushed back, it makes it seem worse than it would have been otherwise I think.
I agree that they are starting off on the wrong foot saying it will be this price, available this date and you can go see an example at SEMA next week. It's a classic example of the companies marketing division being ahead of actual design and production. Happens all the time.
I believe they should have kept tight on info untill is was ready. This keeps rumors down and people won't have to wait a year before they can touch it.
I convert LT1 intakes and am working on something else but I of course won't say a word untill it's tested and ready to market.
Well, I hate to say I told you so, but the development is still in it's early stages. I have worked for several companies that operate like this. Engineers are slow and ponderous by nature. The marketing department uses this tactic to put pressure on the engineering people to put "hot" products on the fast track. Also, as it is still not developed, the attention and questions to BBK will filter through and either dramatically complicate or help focus the development on key things.
As there is no finished engineering prototype yet, I am highly skeptical that this product will see the light of day in the first half of 2005. This is not the only and not the most business significant product that they have in development, and anyone familar with product development and foundry pattern making will understand the time it will take to get this into production. If you've ever heard the old saw "it's too good to be true"? Well, the website blurb is exactly that. Bummer.
Originally posted by John Millican I convert LT1 intakes and am working on something else but I of course won't say a word untill it's tested and ready to market.
Is this something else a new intake design maybe? If so can you at least tell us what RPM range your shooting for?
__________________ 89 T-Top GTA 5.7L T-56
ATI procharger D1sc, AS&M SS runners, accel base, 58mm TB, 42Ibs injectors, full exhaust, McLeod Street twin, Moser ford 9" with 3.70, 18" Boyd Smoothie II wheels 8"/10", DIY prom with code59.
Parts to be installed: AFR 195 eliminator heads, zz9 cam, Stainless works LT 1 3/4 headers, Mufflex 4" catback
The moment I say something it'll turn into a 3 page BBK style thread. All they said was $399 and TPI replacement and look what happened. They don't even have a product yet.
Originally posted by John Millican The moment I say something it'll turn into a 3 page BBK style thread. All they said was $399 and TPI replacement and look what happened. They don't even have a product yet.
Ya but that's what happens when you B.S. people which I'am pretty sure you don't do so what do you have cooking there
Just two simple questions, is it a intake design and what RPM band on a 5.7L?
Originally posted by TA Engineers are slow and ponderous by nature.
Hey...
I resemble that remark! LOL
So true...
And yes, they should just keep it under wraps until they know what it is.
Management should be shot, they'll need the Engineers if we will ever have a chance at actually getting a product.
Jp
Companys do these things to generate hype which could keep potential customers from going elsewhere...it may not be ready till next year sometime,but if no one knows about it they may make up there mind and purshase another competitors setup before BBK's is even announced ..now people have some tidbits on a new TPI setup..and may hold-off on a setup they were previously commited too...thats smart buisness really.
Thats how business works, because if no one gets excited about there product b4 its out then theyr not going to continue to dump money into a lost cause in developement which i agree sucks but it makes sense
A year in advance is too long. Sure a few months to get people exicted is fine, I would do the same. After waiting a year people will forget about it.
Oh and as far as $600 being a good price, it WAS advertised for $399 remember? By the time a production castings released don't be surprised if they raise it another couple hundred to $799.
Oh and as far as $600 being a good price, it WAS advertised for $399 remember? By the time a production castings released don't be surprised if they raise it another couple hundred to $799.
very true, and i am concerned about this. I hope it dont go any higher than it is now but i dont see how they can say they will have a TPI intake for 400 and then come out saying, well its gonna be more expensive than we thought. Thats suppose to be under product development where once they get a prototype, and have a set price idea, thats the price they advertise. Dont understand what happened.
Mods:
Suspension: Eibach pro kit springs, KYB struts, shocks, and TDS wonder bar, SFC's
Induction: K&N air filter, 52mm throttle body, port matched SLP runners and plenum. AFPR
Exhaust: Hooker headers with Jet-Hot, Catco cat, and Hooker Cat-back.
Tranny: built up 700r4 with Trans-go shift kit
cooling: Griffin radiator,185 Degree therm, 200 degree Fan switch
Future modes: New seats
Originally posted by Roads88 Were did the $600.00 price tag come from? Web page still shows $399.00.
Some info from the SEMA Show!!
My brother was able to talk to the Vice President of BBK, Ken Murphey, at the SEMA show today about the new intake that will be released by his company. He is a really nice guy and has some great ideas and great products. He seems excited about this new intake and it should be a killer setup for our cars. In this post I will list all the information we were able to obtain about the intake. It is important to note that this intake is still in the development stage and all this information is subject to change.
As stated above this intake is still in the prototype stage and only the intake base is complete. They did not have the prototype at SEMA so sorry no pictures available yet. Below are the questions from my previous post and their answers, I have also added and taken away a few questions. It is important to note that the answers are not the exact answers or wording we got from the guys at BBK, I have put them into my own words:
Q) What is the price range of this new intake setup?
A) The price is targeted around $600.
Q) When is this intake scheduled to be released?
A) They should have it out for summer 2005 sales.
Q) Will the stock throttle bodywork with this new intake?
A) Yes
Q) Will there be a vortec head version available?
A) As of the first release probably no, but it very possible there will be in the future.
Q) Will this intake be 50 state legal?
A) They are working on CARB legality but are running into problems with the cars that came stock with a 9’th injector. I am not exactly sure what problems are so I can’t say any more.
Q) What is the height of the manifold, for people who want to fit it under stock hood and strut tower braces?
A) This intake is going to be slightly taller then stock TPI but will still fit under a stock thirdgen and corvette hood.
Q) What comes with the manifold?
A) This intake will come with a setup for both camaro and corvette EGR, the bolts for the intake, and all gaskets minus the intake manifold gaskets.
Q) Will stock fuel rails work with this intake?
A) Yes, the stock fuel rail will work with this intake.
Q) What RPM range is this intake designed to make peak power?
A) This intake is designed for mid to upper RPM’s. It is not going to be a high RPM screamer like the Mini-ram and will not die up top like TPI so it will be in-between.
Q) How does the low-end power of this intake compare to TPI?
A) It is too early in the development to answer that exactly but it should still have low end grunt.
Q) What is the length of the intake runners?
A) It is too early to know.
Q) How many piece intake is this (for example TPI is 3 piece; a base, runners and plenum)?
A) The top end of this intake is not fully complete yet but as planed as of now it will be 10 pieces. A base, 8 individual runners, and a plenum.
They had a question for us. They want to know what color to powder coat the manifold. For example if you look at the mustang manifold it is flat black. I think it would look good silver, black, or no powder coat at all. I gave them the information about this site so hopefully they will come to this site and let us get involved in the design process.
Looks to me like BBK found out that it wasn't worth the time or trouble to make something "new" that was based on a design that has already seen many provisions. And for $400? It has been "in pre-production stages" for years, I thought that it was too good to be true. The market for 5.0 mustang intakes is larger than for the camaro firebird, it is not a big wonder why they moved quickly on that intake and not ours.
Since ther are no pictures and a lot of hypothisizing, I will jump on the band wagon with Abubaca to say that this thing will likely utilize features of the semi-split plenum design like we see they have for 5.0's with a common plenum for the TB feeding cross over style runners.
The ford intake is packaged to match up to a stang lower. This places a lot of constraints that they wont face doing a TPI unit from top to bottom.
For instance it can be farther "depressed" allowing the runners a straighter shot into the heads from the plenums. The design on face value on the stang intake seems flawed because the plenum area seems too small, but the larger area required to fit a throttle body adds to that total plenum area.
The only fault I can see there is that in very high RPM applications or on larger motors (which should be using single plane intakes anyways) the air has a make a few too many high angle turns to get into the secondary plenums and then the runners. This could lower flow numbers a bit, but only in these aformentioned applications. At least the long runners can straighten it out when it flows there. from the intake port side, or as far as the motor care, as long as the air is coming in hard, fast, and straight that is all that matters.
I think Abubaca is right on with the idea of the plenom being a large common one like the Lingenfelter/Accel unit. I would like to mention that this doesnt sell it for me. I own a super ram, it is on the shelf, because it is too hard/time consuming to install. It actually has at least one of the tiny bolts cross threaded so that it tightens but isn't perfect. I reall hate the super ram because of that. I also have a stealth ram and couldn't be happier with it. I also own a Accel DFI singleplane which is going on the 412 soon.
On a second note. Maybe this new intake will look more like a LS1 intake. They have invested alot into that design and maybe they will utilize a SBC'ized version of a LS1 design. With the plenum below and within and the runners flip flopping across the top. GM and Ford have both done this for thier V6's in other applications. Look around for some of the 3.8 N/A applications intakes.
BBK have been promising new info on their TPI intake for as long as I can remember. It's vaporwhare. It doesn't exist and probably never will. I mean come on, seriously, how long does it take a multi-million-dollar company to get their **** together and release an intake for a 14-21 year old car.?? Seriously?
I've just about given up on these guys which is a shame really, as I was very excited at the thought of another TPI alternative when I first read the rumours, years ago, and I didn't even own a third gen back then.
I still hope they release a new TPI intake eventually, either just a set of runnes, or a stand-alone unit like that from F.A.S.T. because doing so will (hopefully) revitalize the third gen market and more companies will follow and start building parts/accessories for us 3rd gen owners. There are still a few of us left who haven't swithced over to LS1's (Right now, everybody seems to be focusing only on the LS1 and nothing else. Booooooo!!! )
except for that they still are developing new parts for 5.0's and they are just as old. Besides who wants to ignore a performance segment where the cars are cheap and there are a few million of them?
except for that they still are developing new parts for 5.0's and they are just as old. Besides who wants to ignore a performance segment where the cars are cheap and there are a few million of them?
That's because the 5.0 Fox bodies are 10x more popular to build/modify then third gen TPI cars, I'm sorry to say. For every one IROC/GTA I see on the streets, I'll see ten 5.0's.
For every IROC/GTA I see running 12's, I'll see 25 Mustangs running 9's.....
The selection of performance parts on those Mustangs is leaps and bounds bigger than what's available on third gens. Hence, the reason why BBK still makes new parts for those older Mustangs.
There are many companies (like Holley for example) that sell complete head/came/intake packages for the 5L's and have a hard time keepin up with the demand. That's how popolar those cars are, even today. Who's doing that for the third gen Fbodies? No one. It's practically a forgotton market.
The only new piece that's come out for these cars in like 20 years is the Stealth Ram.( and a few new suspension pieces from UMI/Spohn) That really sucks.
BBK isn't the only company guilty of ignoring the 3rd gen market mind you, but since they're the topic of this thread, the point has to be brought up, that they too are guilty of all but ignoring GM's past motors, offering parts mainly to the newer LS1 cars. They have next to nothing for the LT1's and as far as I know, offer nothing for the old L98's. (Well, maybe an L98/LT1 throttlebody..big deal...)
Any idea's they may have had to release a TPI upgrade have almost certainly been squashed by now.
I hope I'm wrong though and they start offering runners and headers, pullies etc. etc. for third gens. We could use the publicity before we're fogotton about completely....
Geese there is alot of whineing in this 4 page post . Like if you think 600 is too much . I would hate to see what you think of a rebuild ,etc. I would love to at least see a rendition of it . But as I know as well , the hype comes before the product. Heck some copmanies sell stuff still in testing regardless of if it's done .
No new news on it yet I guess. Their current page has nothing even remote about a new TPI intake.
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
why dont we just bombard the companies with e-mails asking to build, new parts for us tpi 3rdgens. i belive i speak for most when is say it must look stock, besides it looks cooler like that.
Some of you guys sure do have high hopes for these cars. Large companies make parts that will bring money in, and thirdgens don't anymore and haven't for quite some time. It's unfortunately as simple as that.
I can make a list of cars for you that have "didn't bring in money" for years. I think anyone with a 1LE, B4C, and expecially pace car turbo thirdgen will be happy in the future if they can afford to hang on to them.
Other cars such as the 78-87 A/G body cars never made money at all for the manufacturers are now cash cows for parts makers. They werent even made in that great of numbers!
I think the biggest deal is the idiot buying a $500 iroc with a check engine light on and the original 305 sucking fuel through the intank with a block mounted fuel pump and a carb. Running around with the TPI large coil distributor with no computer running it and trying to tell everyone "these cars are gutless".
These people when you ask them have high hopes but no money, not for $600 intakes thats for sure.
Certainly the performance market for these cars may change sometime in the future as they grow older, and they definitely had a good one in the increasingly distant past, but I was referring to the present. I also wasn't referring to the car-buying market, but rather the aftermarket performance market.
I agree with your example, but the problem is that most of the people who own thirdgens these days are like your example, or at least they have them as beaters to just get around in since they cost only $500. More and more younger teenagers are buying these to mod because they're dirt cheap (even decent ones for $2500), but they can't afford to do anything with them hence the whining about $600 intakes. Why would they go through all that trouble to make something if only a few people will buy it?
What I'm saying is that large performance companies notice where the markets are, and the truth is that money is being made with LS1's etc. right now, and even still foxbodies (they're easier to make quick, and they still have that "Mustang allure" that so many people are drawn to for some reason. Thirdgens don't have this for as many). As far as bolt-on parts specifically for thirdgens, not many people buy these anymore. The ones who do are getting them from the smaller thirdgen specific (mostly) companies like Spohn, Hawks, etc. because that's the only way these cars will bring in a decent profit, a small concentrated effort. Notice in the last couple Summit issues they changed the "TPI, LT1 and LS1" section to "LT1 and LS1"? (EDIT: nevermind that, it must have just been the mini-issue they sent me last time. Even still, there isn't much left for TPI's there). It's a dying performance breed when better technology is becoming cheaper.
The other main reason for this is that a lot of parts you can get for thirdgens don't need to be specifically for thirdgens. A LOT of our market goes toward unspecific areas like SBC's (carbs, heads, bottom ends and standalone EFI systems etc.), and a lot of the rest of it is custom made by many of us. You can get that stuff anywhere.
Aside from all that, the aftermarket really isn't all that bad still if you think about it. Even if there's only two or three places to get some things from, we still have everything from drag springs to lowering springs, aftermarket shocks to coilover setups, adjustable tubular suspension parts up the wazoo to wheels, tires, hoods, grills, TPI mods, iron heads, aluminum heads, cams, TPI replacement intakes, rear ends that range from upgraded axles to drop-in forged 9" units, replacement weatherstripping and fenders, big brake kits, tubular K-members, turbo headers, turbo kits, supercharger kits, factory ECU tuning equipment, subframe connectors, roll cages, catback exhausts, headers, new carpet and reproduction interior panels and a whole lot more. All of this can be bought right away, made specifically for us, usually right off the shelf.
As for the intake, I don't believe they'll ever come out with it judging by the info we have in this post. As was mentioned, the bases are fairly well covered for these cars. TPI mods for low end, Superrams for midrange, HSR's for higher revvers, and Minirams for screamin 8500rpm firebreathers. Don't forget the singleplane EFI mani's and carb's that many people buy too. BBK probably figured it would cost a lot to make these and they would have to charge more than the competition, all for a fairly minor market to begin with. *shrug*
(Disclaimer: most of this is the sole humble opinion of the author and can be taken with a small grain of salt so there's no need to get offended if you disagree. Have a nice day.)
__________________ 90 Camaro IROC-Z TT: Maybe it'll run right someday. "TWNTRBO" 96 Talon TSi AWD: 11.9 @ 117 & 31mpg- daily driver. "ALLTRBO" 87 Fiero GT: Old, stock, and slow- backup beater. "NOTRBO"
Last edited by Steven89Iroc; 09-04-2006 at 11:46 AM.
Reason: correction
I too don't think that BBK will bring out this intake. I think that most people will just complain about the cost being too high(just like the hoods)and BBK will never make any money on this "new" intake.
I see a million parts for my LS1 and not so much for my LB9. If you look in the Summit catalog you will see that combined LS1/LT1/L98 section has nothing on the Mustang section. The Stang unforuntly sells better. Most TPI owners just ditch the TPI for an LT1 or LS1 nowadays. People are not happy with the TPI performance at all and want results ASAP! An LS1 or LT1 provides that almost instantly. I for one will not be throwing another motor in my Iroc anytime soon, unless I find a engine cheap. It may not be the fastest, but I love the damn thing.
I for one would love to see the design on this thing and see how it measures up with the others, but I don't think it is happening. It has taken too long already. We'll see what happens next!
__________________ 1985 IROC-Z-Rebuilt 305 TPI w/a Comp .464/.464 cam, Hedmen Headers, A/C delete, hypertech airfoil,rebuilt 700R4 w/t TransGo shift kit & a 2200 stall TQ converter. SS Hood!!!
2000 Pontiac Trans Am-Stock.17x10 & 17x8 Boyd Smoothie 2's on Kumho MX's. Stock times 13.18@108.99mph 600 FT above sealevel@SAR! Added GMMG catback and TSP Lid.
1988 Firebird-no engine or tranny..3.8 GN block? www.fbodyelpaso.org
I think almost any hotrodder with older chevy cars will benefit from an aftermarket intake for a thirdgen. Its a shame but most aftermarket EFI intakes are geared more towards racers. Since the thirdgen cars are one of the last of the standard small block engine type car then they have exactly what alot of hotrodders are looking for. Lots of hotrodders want a fuel injected car that still does pretty good for regular street driving and its why the standard TPI is such a popular choice swap. Now you are starting to see that the Superram is getting to be something not so easy to get and not that cheap either there isnt much left to choose from.
and its why the standard TPI is such a popular choice swap.
you mean used to be right? I mean, tpi is nowhere near as popular a streetrod swap as it used to be. TPI used to go for like $500-$600 on ebay. I have helped friends buy them for $100 there complete with distributor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy56
Now you are starting to see that the Superram is getting to be something not so easy to get and not that cheap either there isnt much left to choose from.
I have been thinking about putting my old ASR on ebay, I'm not quite hard up for cash enough yet. Sounds like it is like having money in the bank though.
you mean used to be right? I mean, tpi is nowhere near as popular a streetrod swap as it used to be. TPI used to go for like $500-$600 on ebay. I have helped friends buy them for $100 there complete with distributor.
I know quite a few TPI transplants on hotrods and they have no intention of changing. I mean face it its the best transplant since for most older engines its a cheap simple swap. Dont have to worry about custom engine mounts or a complete reverse cooled mess with more problems than anyone wants. The LS swap is nice but it still not all that cheap than just having to change an intake. You will be surprised because the attitude of old hotrodders want nothing to do with some new engine design but rather the old traditional.
I know quite a few TPI transplants on hotrods and they have no intention of changing. I mean face it its the best transplant since for most older engines its a cheap simple swap. Dont have to worry about custom engine mounts or a complete reverse cooled mess with more problems than anyone wants. The LS swap is nice but it still not all that cheap than just having to change an intake. You will be surprised because the attitude of old hotrodders want nothing to do with some new engine design but rather the old traditional.
Im just saying most of the swaps to TPI were done years ago, and its becoming less popular than it used to be thats all. Im not saying people dont still do it. Of course they still do it.
I have boxes of magazines that are 12 years old, 10 years ago you couldnt have an issue of a car magazine without referring to a TPI swap or someone writting in about them, or a car in there with the swap completed. Today I just see people aiming higher. Some who aim higher misfire, I have been laughing at quite a few LT1 complete engine swaps lately.
I was one of them who bought an IROC for 1000 bucks and with SES light on lol. It's been alot of cash since and well...it still looks like a piece of crap LOL. It's an ongoing thing, like most other project cars. regardless of what's in the car . Alot like to tinker and add a bit here and there. I just wish there was more effort to make emissions compatible stuff. Like I would realllly love a stealthram with an EGR port , etc . Instead of hacking into stufff to make it work . Or for the cali folks so they can run these aswell.
I disagree about everyone just wants to put an LS1 or an LT1 in to replace it . Most I see want to just add parts to an exsisting block in there ( hense all the 305 followers here). Most don't have the know how or place to do engine swaps or fabricate stuff to make there dream engine fit . So they bolt on stuff as they go. Hopefully BBS makes this intake .
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
Well its disapointing when you look for solutions to alternative intakes and the response is this: Get the Stealth Ram or how about the Stealth Ram or you could also get the Stealth Ram.
yeah it sucks when reallity smacks you right in the face doesnt it.
if it is any consolation. I have owned a singleplane, an SR, AND and HSR, and I must tell you for cleanlyness and ease + power the HSR is hard to beat.
If you live in an emissions area the HSR or single plane is out of the question.
If you dont have a pile of money or dont want to spend hours just trying to tighten a few bolts then the SR is out of the question.
With that said, we continue to look for ways to make a better TPI.
The only thing I havent tried is a LT1 conversion intake or a TPIS miniram.
I have always liked the hand ported plenum/siamese runner/large lower setup myself, but it isn't for max effort setups, but it is probably the best thing out there for an L31/hotcam on a stock 305/350 shortblock.
I hate to say it, but I am guessing that if some sort of chinese made intake with emissions ports made like a short HSR or miniram showed up, people would jump on the bandwagon so fast. Even if it were only 49 state.
Yeah but you know people like variety and they want to be different but not have to pay an arm and a leg. Their is just no variety in that. I mean you mentioned alot of good intakes but they are pretty much out of the average joes price range. I got the Superram because I did an incredible amount of convincing to my wife but it wasnt easy. Everyone is pretty much stuck with the Stealthram as far as price since even to get a good performing TPI its going to cost you.
What else is new.
"TWNTRBO"
) 
WWW.OUTLAWPERFORMANCE.COM
i belive i speak for most when is say it must look stock, besides it looks cooler like that.
