I can't wait, please hurry, but get it right

The dyno graphs are in my garage. I can't seem to figure out how to post them in the thread though...

Let me fill you guys in on the test car, and test procedures.

88 IROC 350
BONE STOCK
Stock air box and auto parts store filters
Auto Trans
149,000 miles
8° timing
9th injector eliminated for tests.

Car was set up and allowed to cool overnight for both baseline, and BBK intake tests.
75° air temperature in test facility.

Runs were made in D, starting @ 65 mph (approx 3,100 RPM) which is the lowest speed at which I could apply full throttle without the Trans downshifting.

I run back to back dyno runs on our Dynojet until the power starts dropping off, and then I save the BEST overall # of all of the runs.

With the stock TPI set-up, the engine did not want to pull past 5,000 without a struggle so I stopped the stock intake runs there.

Obviously, this intake is not designed for stock motors, but we always do our initial testing on cars that are as stock as possible to ensure that fitment will be correct.

Now before I continue, I would like to make sure that everyone reading this understands the difference between PEAK dyno #'s and OFF-PEAK.
If you don't know the difference, please ask so I can explain it. It's important to know the difference when looking at dyno #'s to get a full understanding of what the "real" gains are, which are usually in the OFF PEAK portion of the charts.

OFF-PEAK PERFORMANCE-
With the BBK intake, the engine did not struggle until 5,500 where I stopped the runs. From 3,500 RPM the BBK kept pulling as the stock unit dropped off. @ 5,000 RPM (which is the highest RPM I can compare the proto to the stock unit) there was a gain of 52 Ft-lbs, and 50 H.P.

PEAK PERFORMANCE.
I found that the PEAK H.P. was 9 H.P. greater while the peak TQ was down 16ft-lbs which is very typical for a short runner intake on a stock motor.

On the very bottom end (1,500-2,500) I would expect that a STOCK engine could take a 15 -20 H.P./ 20 Ft-lb hit with this type of intake, where a built motor would be able to take advantage of the short(ish) runner design and make more power and torque than stock down in the low end.

Clearly, a heads/cam, blower, or stroker motor would eliminate the low end loss and make even more mid range and top end gains than what is posted here, but again, this is the initial testing.

Bryan

Bryan:
I'm sure Westech would be happy to run that thing on the flow bench fixture they have over there to see the #'s it flows.
I know we all would be anxious to know.

Looks like you have seriously upped the "power under the curve" on the stock motor. I think that is quite an accomplishment considering how restrictive the stock exhaust system, cam and heads are. With just a good exhaust system and your intake manifold a lot more power could be had. Looks like you have done your homework.

I know the dyno graphs etc is what will sell the intake system. Myself I'm more interested in the technical side. I would love to see the pictures of the manifold, runners and plenum. From the technical side the length of the runners the various cross sectional areas and how much they can be opened up for the high horsepower motors. Please make the intake runners thicker that 1.75". It will make our lives easier.

You flip through magazine's in there new products section etc., and never see parts for 3rd gens/TPI cars (Vette's etc) anymore. Yes they are a thing of the past, yes you can breath on an LS engined car to get it to run like mad. But for a product like this, for this market to come out in this day..... it will literally shake the TPI market up with new product blood.
Oh the potential lol, I wonder if BBK will break even on this little piece.lol. Make it the best (if it's in R&D stage - no matter what the public cries - don't release it till it is top dog.) The time and knowledge is there, make it better than all the other products. I'dd be in line for one. One of many I would think.lol

If 52 ft-lbs and 50hp over stock is true , then this thing will sell like hot cakes if the price is not to high. It made more power than the 5.0 Mustang.

Bryan, Thanks for the information on the new BBK intake. Your description of the intake sounds promising so far. I'm guessing with peak to peak difference of 9 HP and a 50 HP increase at 5000,,, the TPI had to have dropped 40 or more horses by 5000?????? Is it where you can give HP and TQ numbers in at least 500rpm intervals,,, or at a minimum give peak HP and TQ at their respective RPMs? Thanks again, Kevin

I read back a bit, but your posting does not specify if the IROC is a 305 or a 350 car?

Any chance of a Vortec pattern lower? Well, it can't hurt to ask.

TA

OK.

GOTTA post some pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can post the 500 rpm break down from work tomorrow.

The car is a 350.

Thanks for your input guys.

50 H.P. & 52 ft-lbs. Under the curve over stock.

I was talking to the Prez today and we were both in disbelief regarding those #'s. I had to break out the other runs that proceeded and followed to prove to him that this wasn't a fluke or spike in the graph.

BTW, I have no reason to lie or make up dyno #'s. I don't get paid to sell anything, or make a bonus on product sales. I get paid by the hour and I get a bonus when I do an install article that gets printed.

I only come here to give out the factual info because I am a performance enthusiast myself and I am proud to work at BBK creating and developing exciting new products.

Just check the time on this post. 10:45 P.M. I'm here because I want to be.

Thank you Bryan, we do appreciate it!

Just please make sure it has an EGR system on it so we Californians can use it!

And the fact that it fits under a Vette hood (which makes up alot of sales ) means it'll fit under a 'Bird hood. Now I just wonder if I can still keep my strut tower brace on there....

yes he does ... top of the page 350 auto ...dyno done in drive

HORSEPOWER ^^^^^^^

TORQUE vvvvvvv


The graphs are capable of pinpointing the exact RPM where the biggest gains are in the run.

The break downs posted below are only capable of narrowing it down to each 100 RPM.

On the graphs, the 50 H.P.& 52 ft-lbs were observed @ 5,074 RPM.
Here in the breakdown it shows 48.13 H.P. & 50.56 ft-lbs @ 5,000.

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\BBK R&D\TPI INTAKE TESTING\RunFile_009.drf
Run Title: TPI BBK INTAKE PROTO
Run Notes: STOCK TPI
BBK TPI INTAKE PROTO
FRESH TUNE UP
Run Date: 6/19/2007 8:59:26 AM
RunFile_009.drf: 76.82 °F 28.87 in-Hg Humidity: 28 % SAE: 1.03 Average Gear Ratio: 39.22
s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs
0.32 2.90 143.50 259.92
0.82 3.00 152.67 267.28
1.29 3.10 161.79 274.11
1.79 3.20 168.20 276.07
2.26 3.30 174.66 277.98
2.78 3.40 179.91 277.91
3.32 3.50 182.91 274.48
3.85 3.60 188.12 274.45
4.37 3.70 192.00 272.54
4.90 3.80 196.40 271.45
5.40 3.90 200.04 269.39
5.94 4.00 202.52 265.91
6.47 4.10 204.45 261.90
7.01 4.20 205.99 257.58
7.56 4.30 206.92 252.73
8.12 4.40 208.89 249.35
8.71 4.50 208.06 242.83
9.30 4.60 205.76 234.93
9.92 4.70 202.90 226.73
10.58 4.80 200.13 218.98
11.26 4.90 195.86 209.94
11.96 5.00 191.94 201.62
12.71 5.10 184.40 189.90
13.50 5.20 179.20 181.00
14.38 5.30 169.66 168.13
15.34 5.40 158.31 153.97
--------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 15.34 5.40 208.89 277.98
MIN: 0.32 2.90 143.50 153.97
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\BBK R&D\TPI INTAKE TESTING\RunFile_004.drf
Run Title: TPI STOCK
Run Notes: STOCK TPI
FRESH TUNE UP
Run Date: 5/1/2007 1:25:16 PM
RunFile_004.drf: 79.40 °F 28.77 in-Hg Humidity: 31 % SAE: 1.04 Average Gear Ratio: 39.13
s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs
0.18 3.10 N/A N/A
0.67 3.20 180.72 296.62
1.18 3.30 184.82 294.15
1.68 3.40 188.97 291.90
2.20 3.50 191.39 287.19
2.72 3.60 193.03 281.61
3.24 3.70 195.99 278.21
3.77 3.80 198.28 274.05
4.30 3.90 199.00 268.00
4.85 4.00 198.82 261.06
5.43 4.10 195.53 250.48
6.01 4.20 193.42 241.87
6.63 4.30 191.86 234.35
7.26 4.40 189.33 226.00
7.91 4.50 186.38 217.53
8.61 4.60 178.86 204.22
9.38 4.70 172.28 192.52
10.12 4.80 169.09 185.02
10.99 4.90 155.23 166.39
12.00 5.00 143.81 151.06
--------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 12.00 5.00 199.00 296.62
MIN: 0.18 3.10 143.81 151.06

Looks good. You have basically extended the rpm range as BadSS suggested it might be. Again I think you have done pretty good with everything else remaining stock. The potential looks very good when aftermarket parts are added to the mix such as cam, heads and exhaust.

We need pictures and details.

And we need a Vortec version, and for the price to stay around $399

If you guys can keep the price down, everyone else's tpi intake sales will pretty much dry up, that is, unless they drop prices to try to compete.

If I understand all that info posted. There are no specs for rpms below 2900 because I assume that many rpms are needed to get it in 1:1 ratio? (ive hardly looked at dyno charts)

As much as I would love to see new parts coming out, it appears that MY normal range (2500-4000rpm), I would loose HP and torque. It starts to swap over from loss to gain around 3700-3900. Am I correct?

Looks good!!!!

The power numbers suggest that this intake would enjoy breathing on an engine with more modifications. As always the low end torque numbers fall off a bit versus a stock long runner setup but you have a chance to make greater power up top with better heads, cam, more cubes, and aftermarket ecm control.

Sorry to point out the obvious. Nice to have another opton for intakes.

I agree, if you ship me one, I'll test it on a fresh rebuilt 350 with ZZ4 cam and AFR 180's. I'm using 1.6's on the intake to get the valve open a .5 an inch. Ship me one and let's see what it does on a mild 350. This ones never been fired.

I think they should make a Vortec version and send it to me so I can "Test" it as well



The real test would be to compare a stock TPI system with this one on an engine with some work. Heads, cam, etc. Think, if a vortec version were made of this, people could spend around 1,000 bucks on vortec heads, cam, and intake and make a pretty nice street engine. That is, if the price stays in the 399 range. I would imagine it would be closer to 500 dollars, but we will see.

oo, another one. I assume that dyno was done on the stock prom(since engine was stock too)? Where we know more power can be made by tuning the prom to the exact setup you have.

sounds interesting, I'd like to see what it looks like and what the price will be when it hits the shelves.

The RPMS were as low as I could go in D without the car downshifting.

Remember, this initial test was on a BONE STOCK engine with no added potential.

It is very possible that a built motor would overcome any loss in the low end and really whip it up in the mid range and top end.

It's still early in the game for us.

The tests were run with a stock chip. The car did have a chip in it, but the stock one was in the glovebox so I re-installed it for testing just to be sure everything was on the level.

There is only one of these intakes right now, so I can't "send one" to anyone for testing. Plus we do all testing in-house. Sorry

Bryan,
Does this intake have EGR provisions?
Bill

In a previous post I believe he said yes because they wanted the egr in the stock location.

He said, "That's the idea, to have the EGR in the stock location" in post #283. As long as it's there somewhere. I'm stoked!
Bill

seeing the numbers on a stock motor from this intake, a Vortec base is a must.
if a choice has to be made between making a base for regular heads or Vortec heads, i vote for Vortec.

its good you used the stock chip, you may have seen lower numbers from the
"performance" chip with both intakes.

I have a chart somewhere showing the minimum cross sectional area of the popular heads. Can't find it for the moment. Here are a couple I remember.

TrickFlow and AFR 195's were around 1.95 square inches. Dart Pro One 200cc heads were at 2.05 square inches. The point I'm trying to make is that the intake manifold should not be less then the minimal cross sectional area of the heads you are going to use. You don't want the intake manifold to be the choke point. I understand that you need a smaller csa so as not to be to big for the stock heads.

So please leave enough material so that the minimum cross sectional area of your intake manifold can safely be opened up so as not to choke the aftermarket heads. The Edelbrock TPI intake manifold is around 1.7 csa at its minimum. It can be opened up some but needs welding so that it can be opened upped even more to somewhat meet the needs of the higher horsepower motors.

With a fresh design you can easily meet these goals. Thank you for what you are doing.

Anyone have a guess on how much faster in the 1/4 it would be by the data shown so far?

Stock=14.86 @ 90.6

Intake=14.62 @ 92.1

This is with his numbers and a 3400 pound car. Adam :-)

Here is the chart you speak of I believe:

edelbrock performer rpm ....1.43.............170
vortec......................1.66.............170
tfs195......................1.93.............195
afr 180.....................1.93.............180
afr 195.....................1.98.............195
afr 210.....................2.05.............210
dart pro 200................2.06.............200
dart pro 215................2.14.............215
brodix track 1 .............2.30.............221
dart pro 1 230..............2.40.............230
edelbrock 23 high port .....2.53.............238
edelbrock 18 deg............2.71.............266
tfs 18 deg..................2.80.............250

Thanks for the info

So uhh, I wonder when one of these would be for sale. I wanna do the motors swap soon, but don't want to change intakes after I put it in.

...

Judging by how long it took Edelbrock/Scoggin Dickey to put the Vortec manifold out to the public, I'd say these are at least 18 months away. They just got a working prototype people, relax! These things take time to test and make sure they are right. You wouldnt want it to be rushed and have a failure, would you?

But, dont hurry too much!

OK it's been straped to a dyno. Now where's the pics! I'm dying to know what this thing looks like. Adam :-)

I'd be interested in this, should really wake up my combo!

Another vote for Vortec (style heads)--I am not giving up my aluminum e-tecs

Well said. The research and development is just beginning as they have to test for leaks and everything else that goes with it.

soooo what would happen if hypothetically speaking one day you came to work and you found that the prototype was missing and in its place was 500 dollars...all hypothetically of coarse....

I wish someone would hypothetically upload some pics of it. Followed shortly thereafter with a hypothetical release date of later this year.

looks good, results are as expected. figured the shorter runners would keep power after 4500rpms where TPI drops dramatically. nice power band now.

i'm sure a tune will show more power. the A/F Ratio has to be off, running lean up top and rich down low. probly good for another 5-10 hp everywhere

I'd probably get one of those hypothetical phone calls a few days later on the tech line asking hypothetical questions on how to install it.

When can we get a picture of it

Pics or BAN

Interested in some flow numbers and a comparison to the HSR, I have the HSR on the car right now and am looking for something to match or out perform it yet still have the EGR so the smog police will leave me alone.

412ci, XFI292cam, AFR 195comp port heads, 58mm TB

i guess ill just hypothetically wait then....

^

I'm glad you have a sense of humor. I would have made a post about the hypothetical three-dog alarm system keeping a watchful eye on the place. And they hypothetically havent been fed in a day or so.
And the local police need something to do other than crush the cars of local street ricers.

i second the "pics or ban"