Acceld Z

Super Rod did a decent TPI shootout in their Feb. issue. It has:

Stock TPI (410hp, 500lb-ft)
Edelbrock High-Flo (431hp, 501lb-ft)
Extrude Hone base & LTR (451hp, 534lb-ft)
TPIS Big Mouth System (460hp, 534lb-ft)
ASM Siamesed Runners (464hp, 510lb-ft)
SLP T-Ram (466hp, 495lb-ft)
Accel SR (480hp, 506lb-ft)
Holley single plane (493hp, 480lb-ft)
HSR (501hp, 493lb-ft)
MR (505hp, 471lb-ft)

The engine was a 10:1 383 with Trick Flow heads and the Comp XR288HR (236/242, .520/.540)

The article is mssing a few things that I would have liked to have seen. They used different size TB's for a number of the tests and the cam is better suited for the short runner stuff. All of the combos made decent power though. I would have liked to have seen a RPM Air Gap and properly sized carb tested as well.

AFAIC, the HSR is the winner as far as numbers:$. And i'm a SR guy, lol.

If you want the RPMs and graphs you'll have to buy the mag.

It would be nice if this thread could manage not to turn into a massive cluster **** of stupidity and ignorance

__________________
1992 Z28
1987 Turbo T

Click here to visit my Cardomain.com page

Orr89RocZ

HOLY hell thats a huge cam for TPI. it made sick numbers tho. thats impressive. i wasnt sure if TPI LTR setups could make that high horsepower. LOL some of those combos could be potent low low 12's and maybe high 11's in some cars.

i wonder how easy it is to tune those LTR combos and how streetable that cam is. also wonder how power would suffer from a smaller cam like a 224/230 or so

kairles

is this issue in store's yet

1989GTATransAm

I'll have to pick up the issue. One would have to see the dyno graph's to really see what was going on. Peak numbers do not tell the whole story. Allen

BadSS

I agree,,, and you guys thinking about an intake need to check this article out. It's on the shelves and is a nicely done article even though there were different T/Bs used. Each intake gets its own graph (per page) and is compared to the stock TPI. Great visuals.

Stock TPI - stock 47mm T/B and stock plenum
Edelbrock High-Flo Base and Runners- stock 47mm T/B and stock plenum
Stock GM extrude Hone base & TPiS LTR - 52mm T/B and Extrude Plenum
TPiS BigMouth Base and TPiS LTR - 52mm T/B and ported plenum
ASM Siamesed Runners - 52mm T/B BigMouth Base and ported plenum
SLP FireHawk T-Ram - 47mm stock T/B
Accel SuperRam Upper- 1000cfm Accel T/B and BigMouth base
Holley MPFI Single Plane - 1000cfm 4bbl T/B
Holley StealthRam - 58mm T/B
MiniRam - 52mm T/B

There were no real surprises.

It shows that a fully ported stock intake can hang with an aftermarket intake. Although if you couldn't do the port work yourself it wouldn't be cost effective to pay someone to port it (or have it extrude honed).

It shows that StealthRam put out more power than the MiniRam everywhere until 5800 on this 383. The MiniRam peaked 3 HP higher, but gave up as much as 23 HP and 28 TQ at 4400rpm.

The StealthRam's tunnel-ram design also put out more power at all points than the Holley single plane intake used. However there are better single plane intakes out there that could be converted to EFI and show better results when compared to the single plane used in this test.

If there was a "winner" among these tested, IMO,,, it was the StealthRam with the SuperRam running a close second --- FOR THIS COMBINATION. HOWEVER, if you wanted to keep gearing and the stall speed to a minimum,, the SuperRam would probably be the better choice. The old SLP T-Ram did well also,,, and would have been close to the SuperRam numbers with a larger T/B. I've also gotta say the TPiS long tube runner system showed very well. If you didn't race the car much the LTR system would be an absolute blast driving around town with approximately 47lb/ft more TQ at 4000 rpm compared to the StealthRam and around 28lb/ft more than the SuperRam at 4000 rpm!

Acceld Z

The magazine also has a small writeup on Barry Grant's new 3 valve SBC heads

83BlackBeauty

wow, this sounds very impressive? Were you just wandering around at your local grocery store (like I do and just happen to read every magazine you want. If you tell me where these things are available all over the place I will definitly buy it.

This will help people feel their options out and starting with their intake. These cars sound heavily modified. I have a HSR sittimg in the box - the fuel rail. If I don't get my hands on another car I plan on picking up for cheap I think I am going to buy the fuel rail. I might just wait to get some aluminum L98 heads, though before I slap my HSR on cause I think with some port work I could really crank out some happy N/A power!

This magazine sounds very hepful to the average thirdgenner. Maybe you can get this stickied? Or at least in the magazine article section!

Sorry for the long post, but I am sure 99% of you have seen the Full throttle everyone is talking about. I just want to here some input?

__________________
83 Trans Am: 88 350 TPI Swap (finally done)

gta324

Can someone scan the article, dont have that magazine over here..

/N.

__________________
GTA -89:415cui 749ECM+$59code+ p/h injectors+Procharger F1

Pro-Built "limited street"TH700 ACT 9.5" 2400rpm.......
http://medlem.spray.se/gta324 Updated 2007-02-07

Soundclip 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXI5r86p5es

Soundclip 2007 *new exhaust*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMWfjD-l280

Acceld Z

I buy Super Rod every once and a while. They have it at quite a few places here. They should have it at most corner stores. I only buy it once or twice a year. I wasn't able to see the Full Throttle episode because we don't seem to get the same programming you guys do. It doesn't sound like I missed much though.

Acceld Z

I'll try and find the software for my scanner this weekend. I'll scan it if I can find it.

gta324

That would be great, THX!

/N.

__________________
GTA -89:415cui 749ECM+$59code+ p/h injectors+Procharger F1

Pro-Built "limited street"TH700 ACT 9.5" 2400rpm.......
http://medlem.spray.se/gta324 Updated 2007-02-07

Soundclip 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXI5r86p5es

Soundclip 2007 *new exhaust*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMWfjD-l280

Ragtop89

I've never heard of Super Rod.
Now I'm going to have to go and find it!

POOP!

__________________

Orr89RocZ

any one else think that cam is too big for TPI?

Ragtop89

Was this done with a stock PROM?
If there was tuning done I see the cam being alright.

__________________

Orr89RocZ

i almost assume tunning had to have been done extensively too. maybe not even stock TPI ecm, but digital fuel injection like Accel Gen VI or FAST or something.

red87iroc

They used an Accel DFI (supplied with the superram) as the engine management system.

BadSS

For those that don’t have 1/4 simulation programs, I though I would plug in the numbers from this article to showing the potential ETs with different 3rd gen combinations. I’ve found the ¼ JR program to be a very useful tool over the many years I’ve used it. I have also found it to be within hundredths of seconds to what I’ve expect to run at the track when I’ve made a KNOWN change. So,, these estimates should be fairly accurate assuming traction.

3510lb car with driver, 70 degrees, 30” bara, 70% humidity – 26x11.5 slicks

Typical stocker - 2.77 gears, 2000 rpm stall, 700r4
TPiS LTR system-- 12.48 @ 110.6
SuperRam-------- 12.52 @ 111.8
StealthRam------- 12.55 @ 113.7

Typical streeter – 3.42 gears, 2600 stall, 700r4
TPiS LTR system-- 12.20 @ 113.6
SuperRam-------- 12.18 @ 113.9
StealthRam------- 12.16 @ 114.2

Typical racer – 4.11, 3600 stall, TH350
TPiS LTR system-- 11.88 @ 111.8 (over revved)- 28” slicks – 11.82 @ 114.2
SuperRam-------- 11.79 @ 116.5
StealthRam------- 11.74 @ 118.3

Let me end by saying,,, in reality,, it’s hard to get a LTR car to hook and the estimated ETs for the LTR and SuperRam (to a lesser extent) are harder to actually run than the estimated time for the StealthRam. I know this to be a fact. Never the less the potential to run the times are there and it also shows how the ETs and MPH are not effected all that much with the intake change on the “middle” combination. However, note how it becomes more apparent as you move away from the middle,,,, when the terminal rpm better matches the particular intake’s inherent rpm range / characteristics.

Orr89RocZ

those are about what i expected although i figured with all that torque and 460 hp, i would hope to think that motor would run consistant 11.8's especially with superram/hsr/miniram. i know of a 383 superram vette doing 11.3's with 4000 stall ( i thought that to be too big tho) so with a race weight about 3350-3400 lbs, 11s should be possible and consistant.

BadSS

It's all about the combination of engine and car. Weight, stall, and temps have a huge impact on the ETs -

Using 3350lbs, 700r4, 3.08 gears, 4000 stall, 45 degree temp Quarter Jr estimates with the SuperRam combo above:
11.52 @ 117.1 mph

When you start getting on up in stall speed, the efficiency of the converter will make an impact on the ET and MPH (A $300 converter with a 4000 stall speed is not going to perform as well as a $800 converter with a 4000 stall speed,,, at least it shouldn't,,, lol). Also there's no factor for the lock-up that can mean ET and mph. So,,, it is not easy to get it nuts on with an unknown combination. However, once you get the car's actual known info and ETs dialed into the program, you will be extremely close on estimates for any changes you want to make. So long story short,,, the differences in ETs when going from one intake to the other should be close,,, again assuming traction and you don't run out of RPM with the LTR systems (over geared).

Orr89RocZ

yeah, i was figuring that.

how about the stock ecm? with a tuned chip. is it possible to achieve those results? or atleast get close?

robsgta

Thanks Acceld Z.
Another magazine that tends to have an abundance of useful TPI 3rd gen upgrades is named "GM- Hightec"

D's89IROCZ

Geese I wish they had this mag here ! I can't believe they got that out of a TPI ( LTR) ...gives me hope .

__________________
PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load....
http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip

Orr89RocZ

yeah, me too. i wonder tho about the stock ecm and chipping the car. not using DFI or another type of EFI

madmax

So run SD and tune it yourself. I'd bet you can get the same results.

xtremeirocz

i wouldnt think the torque would suffer too much but the hp might be down a little. that cam isnt that big as long as it is tunned and has a modded intake

Acceld Z

LOL, go to a Chapters, Beckers or Macs. That's where I got mine.

83BlackBeauty

I bought the magazine earlier today, I saw it @ pipes & pages (where my girlfriend applied today) I asked the lady and nearly pooped myself when i saw it. I read the whole article on Barry Grant's 3 valve heads and they look AMAZING! I am assuming this will allow more air and definitly some performance boosts. The greatest part of it all: They are a stock replacement that uses the stock head gaskets. There were no mounting issues and I can only imagine what these will cost. I personally hope they aren't too expensive! They did have a website listed on the mag too, here it is Barry Grant's Website

This thread is getting hot!

P.S how are those scans coming Accel? I want everyone else to be able to see this. I would do this myself, but I have no scanner.

P.S.S. I start attending school Monday! I am on my way to becoming a mechanic!

__________________
83 Trans Am: 88 350 TPI Swap (finally done)