91GTABird

UPDATE: Its been 4 years and 6 months since ive done this. The car have since been gutted, 8point caged, tubular k-member/a-arm/torque arm/lca/phb, moser 12bolt and fitted with a monster 13.1 383 and raptor 700. Still no leaks This is now my neighbors car which we built together. Sorry for bringing back a dead thread but i wanted to update anyone who knows how to use the search function. I havent been on in a long time and i had a ton of messages regarding this.


I have the acces hole cut out now and was wondering do i need to cut the lines or is there another way of pulling the pump out. Im not up for flames so dont start it. If you have a problem with what im doing then you can come to my apartment, bring your tools and jack and fix it yourself.

Any links will appreciated also. Thanks for anyones help.

bulletboy29

You have to cut the lines.

Guest

Yea, if you dont want to continue cutting away at sheetmetal thats what you have to do.

2 of those lines are high pressure fuel (one's a return, sometimes little pressure). Since you are cutting, do yourself a favor and fix them right.

91GTABird

thanks for the info guys. And thanks for not flaming.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

to reattach the lines, intead of doing rubber lines, i might suggest going to the hardware store and getting some brass compression fittings for 3/8" line. they will hold the pressure and won't dry-rot with time.

91GTABird

thanks nova

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

i used commpresion fittings that i bought from AutoZone

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

what address? time although I don't like this idea you made a very clean job so far and I would like to see it finished in the same manor




It would be very good if you could use a small pipe cutter and double flare the lines.

then get some thick sheet metal and make a ring (similar to the welded in one for the 5-speed cars)

rivit it in (since welding will be out of the question) (maybe even use a rubber gasket or sealer sandwitched between the body and the ring) and then make a solid plate that bolts in (even some rubber seal on it's edge). the ring would be a good reinfocment. if you did it as well as the hole you cut it would look like your car came that way and would be better vapor resistant than most of the rear seams in the car already



the way I stated above is how the cars come now.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

oh, if you do listen to me please slide a sheet of metal between the tank and body when you drill the holes to attach the ring

91GTABird

Thanks TPI Formula. Im gonna be posting some pics of it done tonight. I haven't done the cover plate yet but i was thinking of rivets. (?) You idea aint bad im gonna impose it when i do drill the holes. I do want it to look good and thanks for everyones help.


Brian

FIREBIRD7777

good post

Im about to upgrade my fuel pump with my new motor.. going to order a access door from jegs and weld it in,, but that picture you posted gives me the right location of where to cut at. Thanks for posting that.

91GTABird

No problem firebird.

*Attention* I am not recommending as a cheap fix or anything of that nature.

In my situation i live in apartments and im not well off. I have a family of 2 i have to take care of and i dont have acces to tools or a location to work on stuff. I didnt feel right about cutting but this car is in the progress of becoming a weekend warrior deal and its no showcar for sure.

This is the 3rd pump that has been in this car and im looking into the future so i dont have to pull the rear, exh, and tank again.

This CAN be done or it CAN be done right. Its your choice.

Here are some pics starting from the car all the way to final hookup. This last pic of the high pressure hoses are only temporarly until i can get my hands on a flare tool and some fittings. Until then the cover plate is still up in the air.

Again thanks for everyones help.


All my thanks to Bruce who provided the tools and help. Thanks Man.

91GTABird

Its just center of the console. Not hard to find.

91GTABird

First remove the lock ring. Youll have to twist the lock ring counter clockwise about a total of 2-3 inches and there is 3 tabs that pertrude out on the lock ring that you get lined up with the 3 slots on the tank. After that the pump assembly is loose.

91GTABird

After you have disconnected the harness behind the backseat and infront of the gas tank. Dont worry about pulling the fuse because this has to be disconnected anyways.

I cut the lines using a Makita Sawzall. As i was cutting it i had a shop vac right next to the blade to suck any shavings or other stuff including sparks, dust and dirt. I stuffed a rag around the lines to catch any fuel but none really came out. Just take your time and cut slow. Its not hard but you dont want to cut the tank.

You could do this before you remove the lock ring but you might end up twisting the pump assembly at the same time.

91GTABird

When pulling the pump assembly out you will probally have to 1) pull straight up 2) then tilt towards passenger side 3) then lift up sideways and the float and strainer will be at the top. You will have to work with the strainer and float to get it out of the hole. The strainer will bend at the ends so you can pull it through the hole. Once out youll have the whole assembly. Fuel will spill out.

91GTABird

You now can disassemble the pump from the assembly. Youll have to remove the strainer from the bottom. Just pull straight down. Its kinda tuff but itll come off. You can now slide the pump up some and remove the black thingy off the bottom of the pump and then slide the pump back down and off. Remove the BIG o-ring if you want. Remove the black sleeving around the pump if you want. the new pump should come with them (2) parts new. I just used the old ones.

91GTABird

Now just reverse the process. When hooking you lines back up you a few options. I use (2) 2" long 3/8" high pressure hose and specific EFI hose clamps for the 2 big lines. I used (2) 2" long 1/4" vaccum lines and EFI specific hose clamps on the 2 small lines. This is for tempory purposes only.

Im going to flare the lines and some type of HP connectors compression fitting like the others have said. I dont know b/c i hant done it yet. I will post pics though when i finish the lines perm. and make the cover plate.

I have more pics if anyone is interested.

Good Luck

91GTABird

By the way. When the lines were cut i grinded the rough edges off of them and roughed up the contact areas.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Might want to keep an eye on the main feed line, in case it leaks.
Does your sender still work?

Vader

It is apparent that there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. While I probably wouldn't cut the floor to access a fuel pump myself, this particular example is a lot "more right" than some of the hack jobs that I've seen. Provided you get a rigid cover installed with a very good seal, and treat the exposed bare metal edges to prevent corrosion, you should have a good installation. The compression or flared fitting adapters should make it a much cleaner job.

Incidentally, since this thread actually has some technical merit (as opposed to those that show six views of "my cool new wheels"), it is exempted from the "three-attachment" limit.

It will be good to get a complete photographic record of the project in one place.

91GTABird

Thanks Vader.

Tibo, the sender does still work and being that im not done on the lines the cover plate is off for a few days which helps me keep and eye on it.

TPI-454

Excellent work so far!

If you finish up this process the proper way (eg: flaring the fuel lines, riveting & sealing the trap door), this would (should) definitely be one of the better sticky's.

Question though, you stated that you used a sawzall to cut the fuel lines... did you use this to, to initially cut the floor? Did you also relieve tank pressure before-hand, by removing the gas cap?

Again, excellent job so far!

91GTABird

Thanks 454

I tryed to relieve pressure but there was none due to the bad pump. I used tin snips. Heres a pic.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Have you decided on what your cover will be and how to mount it?

91GTABird

Naw i sure dont. Prolly wont know until Saturday morning and wont have pics until Sat. night.

ALL suggestions are welcome. Pics also.

I have decided to go with compression connectors.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Nicely done so far. I agree that I'm a little apprehensive about the long term reliablity of the hose-clamp/rubber hose connections. It would probably be fine, but I think you'd be on the right track with the compression fittings instead.

Have you considered using short sheet metal screws to attach the cover plate? I would go with some steel that is somewhat thicker than the existing material, make it liberally oversize, silicone it on, drill holes around the perimiter, and screw in sheet metal screws that are dipped in silicone. They are solid, and the pop rivets are hollow, so I would expect that they would not only be a stronger, more secure attachment, but would be easier to remove if you had to access the area again. Just my 2 cents...

HalfInchWrench

I woud use rivits insead of sheet metal screws. In the event of a crash, the screws could rip the tank open buning you to a crisp. Seal it up with RTV or body sealer. Kinda like the Crown Vic's that burned a few cops because of a bolt in the rear end that would puncture the gas tank in a rear end crash. Took ford a few years to even address a simple design change.

FIREBIRD7777

Check in Summit and Jegs catalogs they sell trap doors, that are for this purpose. Jegs specially sells like 3 to 4 diffrent styles and shapes.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

Bri3212

After dropping my tank twice in one week because a parts store sold me a TBI fuel pump for use on my TPI conversion and a month ago my fuel pump went bad again I to decided yesterday to cut my floor to. So lets see some more pics of how to make a nice sealed cover.

91GTABird

Sorry it took so long to get back but i finally got the plate on now.

The HP hose have held up so well with no leaks or fumes i decided to just leave them be.

The plate i used is from Home Depot. Its a 28"x16" sheet metal that i cut down to size of 13"x 8". That gives me about 3/4" around the outer edge of the hole. I used a silicone type silly putty to seal it up. I didnt have my camera and it was a spur of the moment thing so i dont have any progress pics but i do have the finished product.

I wasnt real enthused with the outcome but it did turn out nice. I originally wanted to sand the plate and paint it black that way you could see the aluminum rivets. But like i said it was a spur of the moment thing.

91GTABird

And here is a close-up

91GTABird

Since i have some tools at my apartment, im going to try and sand it real good and them polish it. I had my buffing wheel (fits a drill) in my car and i buffed it alittle with some mothers and it really shined. So i might give it a try.

TPI-454

Finally, Jeeez, been waiting for you to finish this freaking thing up for well over a month now! j/k

I'm honestly a little nervous that you chose to stick with the HP hose, but if you've been monitoring it, and it's been holding strong.... <fingers crossed>

Excellent work on the fabrication!

91GTABird

Thanks alot 454. People like yal make people like me feel better about their own work.

Thanks Guys.

brutalform

Now that was an interesting thread! Great pics. and explanations!

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

So are you going to have to drill out the rivets every time you want the access door off?

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

It's a lot safer than having 20 pointy screws a quarter-inch from your gas tank.

vladicore

very nicely done i must say. i did almost the same thing as you did. but i built the access door on a hinge. i then drilled holes and ran bolts upward and put holes in the access door. and used nuts to secure it down. i used old weather stripping fron a deck lid to secure the fit. i was going to use rivits but then i thought what if this new pump goes bad in 2 moths like this one did. and this way its easy to check the hoses every now n then. first time i changed the pump i did it the correct way and thats when i saw that the car had been cut. me personally i wouldnt have cut it but since it was already done i decided to make it at least look decent.
i think this is an awesome thread explaining how and why you did it and that nobody came in flaming. sometime you guys are decent

JB97C5

Another idea is to use sections of socketless hose from Aeroquip. There is always the use of AN fittings (my favorite over compression). You pay a little now but they are a lot less prone to leaking.

As for an access cover, I would use POR-15 around the access point after I sanded it down smoothe and removed any burrs. Rust is the enemy, followed by moisture and noise.

Depending on how often you want to get into the access point, you could use the POR-15, a slightly oversized cover, and a couple screws and call it a day. Paint the panel with POR-15 and then attatch it to the car while it is still tacky. Use the screws for back up and the POR-15 as a kind of adhesive/gasket. Its thick, kinda like epoxy and with the properties of an all pupose sealant.

Pricey option: Use a thick piece of continuous aluminum to go around the access point. Use very small carriage bolts to anchor the panel to the car with a relief to allow the nuts to sit under the plane of the top of the surrounding aluminum. Then, use machine screws and tapped threads in the surround to anchor the cover plate down.

I really agree with the access hole concept. It is a PITA to drop the tank for what could be a 20 minute repair. Are you violating the sanctity of the unibody? Yes. Are you makiing less a less traumatic situation for any future repairs to the tank? Yes. It is up to the guy who does this. Do it right and it is a great help. Do it "billy-bob" and no one will ever appreciate it no matter how practical.

The rivets add a nice touch! Looks good as-is.

91GTABird

I used some weather stripping that come from a body shop. They use it for sunroofs so i figured it would be fine for this.

Theres alot of things that i would have like to do but it cost money. I did this for

(free) Fuel Pump -warranty
$6-hoses and clamps
$4-sheetmetal
$1-rivets
$2-weatherstripping

--------------
$13 total.

The weatherstripping & rivets was provided anyways from the guy who helped me.

I can always go back though.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

BRI

I did the same thing on my car to, I went to a bone yard and just cut the section I needed from another f-bodies floor, then did the same as you and pop riveted in place but I used caulking compound to seal mine up and said finished and it hasn't been a problem since and I highly doubt the floor is any weaker.

So now if theres another problem it will be a quik change for me, you guys can have your perfect floors and spend the day changing your pump, I'de rather spend 20 minutes changing my pump and then spend the rest of the day with my son.

great work bri

MrDude_1

TTT

thanks.. the pics help tell me where to cut..


normally, im 100% AGIENST cutting up the car.. but i scored a V6 car with a bad pump for $300..... and since i had it towed to my apartment compex, theres no way i can get away with pulling the tank...... but if i just sit inside the car and pull the pump out this way, i doubt anyone will say anything to me

thanks for the writeup. the TTT is so when someone else searches for it, its not on the 5th page like it was for me.

91GTABird

Thanks Mr. Dude

Is the V6 car a donor for another LS1?

MrDude_1

naa, just a cheap car that fell onto my lap... im going to give it to my sister as her first car.. its staying stock

o2b18

Thank you!

I need to replace the pump tomorrow, and this is the way to go!

This post saved my life!....well at least 5-6 hours!

Mark

Kat

iTrader: (4)

heh takes me two t three hours to do a fuel pump the right way. Any other way is a hack.

Kat

o2b18

Congratulations,
You must be a very skilled tech, I'm not. I don't consider installing a 'access panel' properly a 'hack job'.

Mark

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Not skilled, just have done quite a few of them in friends cars over the years. One time me and JaysZ28 did it in about an hour on his car.

Kat

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I knew that there would be at least one person that couldn't resist.