TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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theres not 5 ports, just 2... in n out. Its controlled via 5 wire. I'm going to guess that its for "4 positions", plus a ground. But I'm just guessing on that.
My drawing looks like a block of something with a few holes drilled in it. I can post a picture if people really want.
The 5 wires for the linear EGR valve are for two seperate functions combined in the linear EGR valve. Two wires are for the linear EGR pintle control motor, switched 12V and EGR control from the PCM, and three wires are for the EGR pintle position feedback, sensor 5V and sensor 5V return from the PCM, and the pintle position signal to the PCM. HTH
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Thanks guys. So they use a pintil motor like on the idle air control. It sounds to me that this could be done by a 12V double pole relay. One set of coils to close the relay and feed back to the ECM if necessary and the second set of coils to open the relay and feedback to the ECM if necessary by contacts on the relay. Then of course another set of contacts to operate the TPI EGR solenoid.
On second thought maybe two relays would work. Maybe even the old MAF relays could be used since I converted to speed density. That way it would look stock.
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Dale, were you thinkin of using the newer style EGR and that was the reasoning for machining a part?
Last edited by 1989GTATransAm; 09-05-2007 at 12:38 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I have a few thoughts on these posts about 24 & 58X timing reluctors to eliminate the distributor.
One concern voiced is that reduction of diameter will reduce the period of the signal to a 'blip'. However, the smaller the diameter, the lower the tangential speed at that diameter.
The two are proportional: v (tangential velocity) = r (radius) x w (angular velocity in radians)
So as long as the sensor has sufficient resolution, it should not be able to distinguish any difference since the period of the signal should remain constant even though the reluctor diameter has been changed. The trick here could be identifying the right sensor.
The other option is to mount the reluctor on the OD of the crank pulley and space out the sensor to match its location. You can wire EDM out the ID of a reluctor and fit it onto the OD of a crank pulley. Once location is established it can be welded into place. Granted its timing location may not be as accurate as placing it on the balancer but it seems that the balancer diameter is too close to that of the reluctors. This could also be a good excuse to use an underdrive pulley.
86L69 - great observation on the tangential speed of the reluctor teeth. I knew something didn't seem right about the thought process expressed earlier (shorter pulse duration), but I couldn't put my finger on it. And I assume what you mean by finding the "right sensor" is that it would need to be one sensitive enough to pick up the smaller amount of ferrous material in its field. I tend to agree with that also.
As far as putting this stuff into practice, I have only done so in my head. I keep intending to buy a 24x reluctor to look at and take measurements from. Then I can CNC a reduced-diameter version in the race shop. Of course, if someone already has a dimensional drawing of the reluctor, that would be even better (anyone?).
I'm supposed to pick up my new 383 next weekend, so I'll have that to goof around with soon. Problem is, my job just got outsourced to Mexico and as of Sept. 28th I'll be unemployed unless I find something else pretty quickly. Magic 8-ball says "outlook not so good" on that though. I guess on the bright side, I'll have lots of time to work in the garage... but with zero income I expect progress will grind to a halt rather quickly.
Interesting concept putting the reluctor on the crank pulley. Hmm... now ya got me thinkin' again...
cant have 2 knock sensors, so I need to remove the 2nd wire.
Install only knock sensor
wire up ac system(basically, only wiring left)
damaged dash temp gauge wire, so fix that.
install belt
install runners, upper plenum, TB.
mod my ignition coil wire since I'm running old style coil
Get VSS plug, install
plug up o2 sensor
test to see what fuel pump I have
solder wires to dash cluster and ALDL port
wire loom all this crap (cant decide what color to use)
waiting on maf to TB boot to come in
after running, take to shop and have other o2 bung installed.
tune!!!!
original plan to start date was 19th. That shouldnt be any problem unless this fuel pump is the wrong one :scared:
The car was orginally a 305 TBI. When I got it, 350 TBI with a hole in the hump over the rear axle so I was thinking they had installed a new fuel pump for the 350(305 one isnt enough). Reading on here ppl recommend installing the TPI pump. Guess thats not what was installed.
On the 41 pickup I'm using, I used 92 S10 Blazer tank and bought 98 Vortec truck fuel pump and it was a direct fit from the S10 pump. I don't know if it is any better than the TPI unit, but it was the same price and we're sort of using the same vortec stuff.
Ron
Got the pump swapped. Attempted to start the car tonight, it starts, runs for about 5 seconds then stalls. Instantly can start again, but then dies again.
I have 52psi of fuel.
I have not modified the ECM/PCM yet.
Anyone have ideas or suggestions?
Got the pump swapped. Attempted to start the car tonight, it starts, runs for about 5 seconds then stalls. Instantly can start again, but then dies again.
I have 52psi of fuel.
I have not modified the ECM/PCM yet.
Anyone have ideas or suggestions?
Could the VATS need to be turned off in PCM?
Just a thought.
Also, the injectors in the 0411 are set for 19# if I remember correctly, even though it wouldn't have anything to do with your problem.
Ron
Do you have any data logging tools? I would try to log what's going on then post it here and a tuning forum. If I recall the ecm switches to 'after start enrichment' once it stops cranking and starts running. Could be as simple as working over this value.
another forum thats been helping me says its vats/passlock. As well some searching on the net says so too. Nothing on the ecm wire diagram shows a theft system on here or I would have been working on that a while ago.
tpiselli, no logging system at the moment. Planned to get efilive next month. I do have an obd2 scan tool, shows no codes. However, I am not sure I wired my diagnostics port correct. Going to check that tonight.
another forum thats been helping me says its vats/passlock. As well some searching on the net says so too. Nothing on the ecm wire diagram shows a theft system on here or I would have been working on that a while ago.
tpiselli, no logging system at the moment. Planned to get efilive next month. I do have an obd2 scan tool, shows no codes. However, I am not sure I wired my diagnostics port correct. Going to check that tonight.
another forum thats been helping me says its vats/passlock. As well some searching on the net says so too. Nothing on the ecm wire diagram shows a theft system on here or I would have been working on that a while ago.
tpiselli, no logging system at the moment. Planned to get efilive next month. I do have an obd2 scan tool, shows no codes. However, I am not sure I wired my diagnostics port correct. Going to check that tonight.
Cavity 2: Serial Data
Cavity 4: Ground
Cavity 5: Ground
Cavity 16: Battery
Hey folks,
My '86 4bbl LG4 engine is finally all torn down and ready to go to a machine shop which means I'm in need of some information from you folks for this conversion. One important piece of information about the engine I want to put together. It's going to be used as a daily driver which will see 140-170 miles a day of which 98% are highway cruising. Thus, I'm looking for durability and fuel economy rather than quarter mile times. I'm going to swap in a 4l60E transmission and probably keep the 2.73 rear. So, with that the questions:
- Camshaft: I've read on numerous forums that the '86 "peanut" cam has to go. So, I'm looking for recommendations. I've seen the Crane compucam 2040 and the Comp XE262H suggested on other threads, anyone have any other thoughts?
- Heads: I'm planning on keeping the stock heads (casting 14014416) but was wondering if upping the intake valves from 1.84" to 1.94" is worth while?
- Pistons and CR: The stock pistons have what looks like 4 valve reliefs in them so I'm guessing they're the dished type and the engine had a 8.5:1 CR. Should I change to flat top pistons and push the CR to 9.5:1 to match a 305 TPI motor?
That's all for now. Thanks for any information you can share. I'm really looking forward to this conversion as this is my first tear down and engine build up.
I have done some reading, and it sounds like the EGR valve opens up a bit at crusing speeds to help in MPG. As well it will need lots n lots of tuning to get the best mpg out of it.
Get a cam with little to valve overlap, IIRC around 111 or 112. Roller cam and roller valves to reduce friction.
not to throw a wrench into your plans, but if you are already building a motor from scratch and aren't looking for super performance, rather than build up the old lg4 and have to adapt things (as well as build a fuel injection system), you should figure out how much all this will cost, vs finding a low(er) mileage vortec motor out of a truck or suburban, and consider using it complete, with fuel injection system, and just upgrade the ecm. It might be a cheaper and easier path.
if you have already dedicated yourself to rebuilding the LG4 and have all the fuel injection stuff already, just disregard what I'm saying.....
not to throw a wrench into your plans, but if you are already building a motor from scratch and aren't looking for super performance, rather than build up the old lg4 and have to adapt things (as well as build a fuel injection system), you should figure out how much all this will cost, vs finding a low(er) mileage vortec motor out of a truck or suburban, and consider using it complete, with fuel injection system, and just upgrade the ecm. It might be a cheaper and easier path.
if you have already dedicated yourself to rebuilding the LG4 and have all the fuel injection stuff already, just disregard what I'm saying.....
Really not a bad idea.
You could find 97-98 L31 truck in yard and get motor/trans/harness/PCM and use it all. The 97-98 PCM is okay for normal driving.
Change the cam to stock LT1 or LT4 for about 20-50.00 and you'd have a pretty great running car with OBDII.
The stock truck harness could be dressed up a bit if you are on a budget.
The truck guys are re-pinning their harness's to run the 0411.
Check out this site http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewto...53890c55fdf9fa. But a basically stock setup would be fine for normal needs.
I think Fast355 did that in a van. I remember reading a post on here about it.
Ron
Just days ago I spoke with someone doing this conversion with an older block (400ci SBC). He had clearance problems with the timing reluctor and timing chain. He decided to mount the reluctor outside the cover. The car has several problems (which may not all be related to the external sensor/reluctor):
Engine won't rev past around 4500rpm. This is not a tuning issue. With adjustments to the sensor position, 5200rpm was possible. It was very unpredictable and unreliable.
Serious Radio Frequency Interference. Running the car caused the dyno, Moates Road Runner, and shop lights to shut down and/or behave strangly.
I didn't experience this first-hand, but maybe Jamy will chime in and share additional thoughts.
first order of business-check and recheck all grounds.
then check-rf suppression ignition wires?
then-reluctor gap?
then-if not done already, it's probably an excellent idea to run the reluctor wires for the crank sensor as a twisted pair. it might even be a good idea to tape them up with some aluminum tape and ground just one end of the shield.
one other funny thing....maybe something funky with the plugs themselves? throw some good 'ol delcos in there, if they aren't already.
if the cap and rotor are not new, check for really funky corrosion/contamination on them. I just had major misfires on my pickup that cleaned up with new cap, rotor and plugs. there is a tsb about removing the filter element in the distributor for improved airflow.
beyond that,other than gross harness problems, there shouldn't be any reason why its acting this bizzarre.
very interesting. Id more like to know why the ring didnt fit on the 400 like all the 305/350s? I'm still new to v8's, but I thought the outter block design was the same?
I am also wondering how all this is mounted up "on the outside". As to me that would require tons of maching on the balancer causing risk of low end vibration???
I'm following this with great interest, as many others are as well. Jamy Lippencott tuned my current MAF/383/Superram setup, dealing with him was a pleasure. He mentioned this swap and ever since I've been interested and I may have the cash this winter to swing the swap. My few questions are as follows...
1. will the crab dizzy cap fit with my super ram intake?. I'm assuming I'll have to just run it rotated out of the way.
2. Does the 411 ECM have a provision for a rev limiter? currently I'm running an Accel 300+ ignition so that I have a rev limiter, but if the 411 has it I'll take it off to keep things simple.
3. I know the 4.3 dizzy will work, but will the 4.3 timing cover work as well? It should but I thought I read somewhere in this huge thread that it was not the same.
4. I haven't heard many guys running manual trannies doing this swap. I have a TKO600 and a cable drive speedo. I read somewhere on here that there was an adapter that you can buy that was used for the 92 B4C cars to calibrate their radar. I'd probably try to get this to feed the ECM and still run my old mechanical speedo. Anyone done this?
I have a manual trans, but still uses an electronic VSS. There are adapters that you can put the cable speedo on, and still send a signal to the ECM. May want to look into say s10 v8 swaps, and things of that nature.
I would think the software would include a fuel cutoff that could be set at any rpm you want. The OBDll software in my OBS 2000 Tahoe has it. Don't know about the crab style distributor and the Superram.
Hey folks,
Thanks for the thoughts on picking up a Vortec but I already have many of the TPI parts (intake, runners, plunum, TB and so on) so I'm sticking with rebuilding the LG4, it's at the machine shop right now.
I have a question about the cam sensor on the Vortec ditributor. What is the sensor looking at? If it's something on the cam do I need to consider this when I purchase a new cam? Right now I'm looking at 3 cams: Lunati's part number 60100, Crane's part number 113502, and Compcams' part number12-256-4. Summit lists all of these cams as non computer controlled compatible. Is this something I need to be concerned with or can I go with one of the above cams for this conversion?
Thanks again,
Tony
Man, i want to do this swap. Im just afriad it wont be worth the effort. My car runs really well and has great drivability with the 749 ECM in it. I just want the great tunability of the 411 ECM. I need to read through the whole thread when i get time. So far it looks pretty sweet. Jeff (lextech), joe's truck is running great. Thanks for helping us out.
__________________ Boosted and intercooled L98 with 749 ecm
10.78@128-1.5 60ft(new best time july/06)-570rwhp@13lbs on pump gas. Est. 600+rwhp@16lbs on 100 octane. Capable of 18lbs, but havent done it, ok maybe once.
Featured in GMHTP mag July 07
Man, i want to do this swap. Im just afriad it wont be worth the effort. My car runs really well and has great drivability with the 749 ECM in it. I just want the great tunability of the 411 ECM. I need to read through the whole thread when i get time. So far it looks pretty sweet. Jeff (lextech), joe's truck is running great. Thanks for helping us out.
My Camaro we did turned out beautiful with the Procharger and 2 bar map. Took about 30 minutes to tune on the dyno.
after 2 months (1 waiting on someone to send an ecm thats still not back) it freakin runs!!!!
Idles like crap, I know I for sure have some tuning to work on. But atleast I can possibly pull it out the garage on its own power. Its 10:30 so I'm going to bed and will check codes tommorow.
My Camaro we did turned out beautiful with the Procharger and 2 bar map. Took about 30 minutes to tune on the dyno.
I believe it. The 411 is an awesome, tuneable ecm. Just for comparison, what kind of power is the procharged camaro putting down? Our cars are pretty simular from what i can tell you have done to it.
__________________ Boosted and intercooled L98 with 749 ecm
10.78@128-1.5 60ft(new best time july/06)-570rwhp@13lbs on pump gas. Est. 600+rwhp@16lbs on 100 octane. Capable of 18lbs, but havent done it, ok maybe once.
Featured in GMHTP mag July 07
We were hoping for more, but the best so far with cold weather was 359 rwhp and 441 rwtq. We hit max of 7lbs boost with a 12lbs pulley. Once 4000 cam around boost levels were dropping as I think the belt was slipping. Its loost on there now with max tightness. i'm going to have to look into another gates belt. I figure its not that bad coming from 238rwhp and 336 tq the day before the blower.
No, thats not bad at all. With some more boost, it should come alive!
__________________ Boosted and intercooled L98 with 749 ecm
10.78@128-1.5 60ft(new best time july/06)-570rwhp@13lbs on pump gas. Est. 600+rwhp@16lbs on 100 octane. Capable of 18lbs, but havent done it, ok maybe once.
Featured in GMHTP mag July 07
which one of you are tuning your own ecm if either?
I may need some help as I have never played with an ecm before this week.
I tuned my 749 ecm. I havent messed around with a 411 ecm yet.
__________________ Boosted and intercooled L98 with 749 ecm
10.78@128-1.5 60ft(new best time july/06)-570rwhp@13lbs on pump gas. Est. 600+rwhp@16lbs on 100 octane. Capable of 18lbs, but havent done it, ok maybe once.
Featured in GMHTP mag July 07
Jamy tunes all my stuff. (Lives down the street) Gotta love tuning 24/7 I think my Formula has been on the dyno over 150 or so runs with all his creativness trying new stuff. We used to make sure tunes were good on my car at least before he mailed them out. lol
I guess on the bright side, I'll have lots of time to work in the garage... but with zero income I expect progress will grind to a halt rather quickly.
sorry, just happy to see it this far. 
