TPI OBDII - Thoughts/Opinions - Page 2 - TPI - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

S10Wildside · 09-21-2006, 03:39 AM

Diagrams can be purcahsed at ALLDATADIY.COM - Do It Yourself Automotive Diagnostic & Repair Information. ($25 for first subscription, $15 for each after).

Lextech · 09-21-2006, 07:44 PM

I got my PCM and harness off of E-Bay. It was 95.00 and was from an 01-02 S10. I got the 01-02 Express van wiring diagrams from a Chevy technician buddy. You could probably sweet talk and give a CHEVY TECH 10.00 to print them out for you. Since my PCM was from a V-6 S10 it was not programed to work with my truck, I got a VIN number for an 01 Express Van with a 5.7 engine and a 4l80e trans. I had my buddy reflash it with this VIN so it would run my truck. The VIN determines the programming on factory stuff.

scuzz · 09-22-2006, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lextech

I got my PCM and harness off of E-Bay. It was 95.00 and was from an 01-02 S10. I got the 01-02 Express van wiring diagrams from a Chevy technician buddy. You could probably sweet talk and give a CHEVY TECH 10.00 to print them out for you. Since my PCM was from a V-6 S10 it was not programed to work with my truck, I got a VIN number for an 01 Express Van with a 5.7 engine and a 4l80e trans. I had my buddy reflash it with this VIN so it would run my truck. The VIN determines the programming on factory stuff.

I didn't know that about the VIN. Thanks for the info.
Ron

1989GTATransAm · 09-22-2006, 11:35 AM

I just got a vin number off of Ebay.

S10Wildside · 09-23-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1989GTATransAm

I just got a vin number off of Ebay.

Here's my experience with the VIN in the PCM. I put a 12200411 PCM in my 2000 Firehawk without changing the VIN. I immediately got an air bag light. When I scanned the car to detect all modules (with EFILive), only the PCM was available. The Traction Control Module, Air Bag Module, and Body Control Module were not even listed. When I put the other PCM back in, all the problems went away. I could then retrieve a trouble code from the air bag module that read, "Configuration Mismatch". All I had to do was correct the VIN in the 12200411 PCM to fix the problem.

So it appears that the TCS, BCM, PCM, etc have the VIN programmed in them so they all play nice together.

Lextech · 10-01-2006, 01:29 PM

Just to update. In post 47, I said there was 1 A/C wire not used. Well, there are 2 wires. I will figure them out later on. The truck has about 150 miles on it with the 411 and it runs perfect. I tied the 2 green wires that go into the truck for speed input together and connected them to the 1 speed output on the 411--Speedo and cruise work fine as do all the gauges. I had to cut the ground wire from the fuel sender and connect it to its proper place on the 411 for the fuel gauge to work. I also have a 54 Chevy p/u with a 557 Cadillac engine and 4l80e trans and I know for sure that I will be using a 12200411 on that project.

Lextech · 10-14-2006, 07:59 PM

Well I finally figured what the 411 wants for crank relearn. I did the relearn today. The 411 uses 4 inputs from the Park/Neutral switch. If you do not use this switch then you need to ground Pin 32 and 34 of C1 Blue 80pin connector DURING the relearn procedure, so the PCM thinks it's in park!

LittleNo · 10-15-2006, 02:42 AM

guys, i'm looking for a (GM PCM) way to run 4L60-E/4L80-E together with TPI now for 2 years - you gave me the answer! that sounds so damn cool, i'm immediately starting to look for all the needed parts

S10Wildside · 10-15-2006, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lextech

Well I finally figured what the 411 wants for crank relearn. I did the relearn today. The 411 uses 4 inputs from the Park/Neutral switch. If you do not use this switch then you need to ground Pin 32 and 34 of C1 Blue 80pin connector DURING the relearn procedure, so the PCM thinks it's in park!

Awesome! Thanks for the info.

scuzz · 10-15-2006, 09:14 AM

It looks like we might have a break-through.
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
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Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleNo

guys, i'm looking for a (GM PCM) way to run 4L60-E/4L80-E together with TPI now for 2 years - you gave me the answer! that sounds so damn cool, i'm immediately starting to look for all the needed parts

I pulled a complete harness from a 2001 Express Van a couple weeks ago. If you can find a 2001-2002 Express Van or Savanna Van, I think you would have an easier shot at changeover.
I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron

Fast355 · 10-15-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuzz

It looks like we might have a break-through.
Are you talking about the switch connector on the side of the trans around the shift lever?
Thanks,
Ron
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I pulled a complete harness from a 2001 Express Van a couple weeks ago. If you can find a 2001-2002 Express Van or Savanna Van, I think you would have an easier shot at changeover.
I started with a 97 Vortec truck which S10Wildside basically had to start with just the connectors to build a harness for me, but the harness from the van looked much easier than the way I went.
Ron

The 411 PCM started in late production 2000 model Express vans as well. The astro vans used the same 411 PCM with a different harness as well.

scuzz · 10-15-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast355

The 411 PCM started in late production 2000 model Express vans as well. The astro vans used the same 411 PCM with a different harness as well.

Would you not have to run two extra injector runs from PCM?
This is getting interesting now.
Thanks,
Ron

Fast355 · 10-15-2006, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuzz

Would you not have to run two extra injector runs from PCM?
This is getting interesting now.
Thanks,
Ron

Yeah, but thats not a big deal. My 411 and harness was from a 2000 Express with a 4.3 Thats after I got tired of messing with the Black PCM and its lack of support.

Mkos1980 · 10-17-2006, 09:16 PM

Sounds very very interesting!

s10mods · 10-19-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S10Wildside

Sure...

Here's a list of parts (this will be revised until the engine is running and I know the list is complete):

12200411 PCM (LS1, Truck, S-10, Blazer, Express, others)
Wiring Harness for 12200411 (must follow Vortec L31 schematics)
Vortec 305/350 Distributor (has camshaft sensor in it)
Vortec 305/350 Harmonic Balancer
Vortec 305/350 Timing Cover
Vortec Timing Reluctor Ring (goes behind timing cover)
Vortec Crank Position Sensor
Vortec Ignition Module
Vortec Coil
Knock Sensor (2001 Express Van w/ 5.7 engine)

I just installed the Vortec distributor into my TPI engine. It completely clears the runners, but will require relocating the coil. The distributor is offset just like the runners are (bank two is set further forward than bank one).

Can you add the vortec crank sensor to the old TPI style blocks and if so how? I thought the timing cover had a diffrent bolt pattern?
My friend has a tpi and was wondering if their was a diffrent type of computer to run his engine with out going aftermarket. I thought of the Vortec computer but the Tpi has no crank sensor.

scuzz · 10-19-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s10mods

Can you add the vortec crank sensor to the old TPI style blocks and if so how? I thought the timing cover had a diffrent bolt pattern?
My friend has a tpi and was wondering if their was a diffrent type of computer to run his engine with out going aftermarket. I thought of the Vortec computer but the Tpi has no crank sensor.

Use the ring and cover from a 96-99 Vortec motor, I think even the 4.3 is the same as V8. I got mine from junk yard off core 305 in junk pile for 5.00 and me take it off. The sensor was still in cover also. Be sure to get bolts also, they are different, but it will bolt on a TPI motor just fine. There are two holes in the TPI block at about the water pump that you do not use on the plastic cover. The cover says not to reuse but that's BS. Just clean well and use a little sealer when you re-install. Get the dist and coil from a V8 96-99 while you are there. Or, of course, from an Express Van. If you are lucky enough to find the 2001-2002 Van, I think someone else used a 2001 S10 harness, get it.
I got a 97 truck harness and got S10Wildside to convert it for me.

S10Wildside · 10-19-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuzz

Use the ring and cover from a 96-99 Vortec motor, I think even the 4.3 is the same as V8.

The 4.3 cover is different, but the sensor is the same. A new reluctor ring is $10.86 (GM list). Part number 10190917.

Lextech · 10-20-2006, 09:27 PM

I am ALMOST positive that the 4.3 V-6 distributor is the same part number as the V-8. It just uses a different cap---cause it's a V-6. Remember the distributor is a 1X signal per dist. rotation.

S10Wildside · 10-21-2006, 03:05 PM

Let's go back to the transmission range switch. This switch is not used in the f-body.

Range Switch Equipped Vehicles
PCM Connector C1
32: Range Switch A
34: Range Switch P
72: Range Switch B

PCM Connector C2
62: Range Switch C

F-Body (no range switch)
PCM Connector C1
32: Clutch Pedal Position Signal
34: Park/Neutral Position Signal
72: Not Used

PCM Connector C2
62: Not Used

I assume the range switch is optional. I'm going to have to check to see if my 2000 Firehawk has a wire in C1, pin 32. It's an automatic car. If it does not, then I would think only C1, pin 34 needs grounded for the crank relearn. I should mention I've already swapped to the 12200411 PCM in the Firehawk.

Does everyone see where I'm going with this?

S10Wildside · 10-21-2006, 03:25 PM

I just checked. On an automatic LS1 f-body, C1, pin 32, is not used (empty). So, that should mean that only C1, pin 34, has to be grounded to incidate park and perform the crank relearn.

Lextech, what are your thoughts on this?

Lextech · 10-21-2006, 10:54 PM

I understand exactly--your dilema, but you have already grounded just pin 34 and it wouldn't relearn. Why not try grounding both pins 32 and 34 during the relearn and see if it works. I know you will have to add a piece of wire but, that's all I can think of. I am not a GM tech. Is there a parking brake input to the 411 on the LS1 F-bodys?

S10Wildside · 10-22-2006, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lextech

I understand exactly--your dilema, but you have already grounded just pin 34 and it wouldn't relearn. Why not try grounding both pins 32 and 34 during the relearn and see if it works. I know you will have to add a piece of wire but, that's all I can think of. I am not a GM tech. Is there a parking brake input to the 411 on the LS1 F-bodys?

I never did have the transmission attached, so there may have been some other problem on the test stand.

There is no parking brake input to the PCM.

Lextech · 10-22-2006, 11:12 AM

S10Wildside, I have been told that the cam sensor ( CMP ) has to be within +/- 2 degrees or the relearn won't work---Just a thought. Also, since the LS1 engine is a whole different animal, The 411 may only need 1 signal input for the relearn. So the LS1 scenerio may not apply.

Mkos1980 · 10-31-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lextech

S10Wildside, I have been told that the cam sensor ( CMP ) has to be within +/- 2 degrees or the relearn won't work---Just a thought. Also, since the LS1 engine is a whole different animal, The 411 may only need 1 signal input for the relearn. So the LS1 scenerio may not apply.

I also read this on the new distributor instructions that I bought for this swap. Also, since my motor was balanced with my current balancer and its a 6 3/4, I didnt feel like spending another 50 for a bigger 8in specific balancer for this application.
I simply took my balancer to my machine shop and they removed just under an 1/8 (90 thousanths) off the snout and it works perfect.

Mkos1980 · 11-07-2006, 10:41 PM

The swap is done. My 383 should fire up tomorrow on OBD II

Mkos1980 · 11-08-2006, 07:07 PM

Its alive and running super smooth. We did the crank relearn procedure outlined a few posts back and it works flawless. No SES light no nothing. We didnt have the time to tune yet so its still running the express tune but with the 383 and miniram its silky smooth, no hesitation, no nothing. And my MPH and cruise work perfect.

1989GTATransAm · 11-08-2006, 07:34 PM

Good to hear. Right now I'm planning on this as my next years mod along with a 4L60E. This has been a good thread for the conversion.

Mkos1980 · 11-13-2006, 06:20 PM

Well the dyno numbers were just a "tad" higher. I was up 5hp and 3lbs tq. It only pulled 325/330 at the wheels. I was hoping for a tad higher. Air fuel was dead on 12.8 across the graph. Max HP was at 5800 rpms. I figured with the 383 the tq would be around 350ish maybe. Cam isnt that big of duration. 219/219 560/560 112. I am still running a single cat (which after 43 dyno pulls) was ratteling and smelled. So I bet its on its way out. I am also running stock firebird intake tract. I dont think the tranny is slipping at all. Its got 90K on it with a reman s-10 converter.
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Only thing we have to figure out now is the TCC lockup