Quote: Originally Posted by S10Wildside I suspect that many will opt out of the MAF sensor. As long as the PCM is tuned right, it can be eliminated. The harness I built for my S-10 has the MAF wiring in it (as shown in pictures above), but I plan to take it out. I AGREE, but WHY? Having it makes tuning things so much simpler.

Both my cars are MAF free and they are perfect.

Then again, I am working with a TBI setup that will never be as acurate as a MPFI setup due to the wet manifold. The fuel vaporizing in the manifold also directly effects intake charge density and makes for fueling changes due to weather, engine temp, etc.

are the express van 350s 4 bolt or 2. I am in the market for a 350 to biuld and if they use 4 bolt mains than i can go to a junk yard and just pull everything at once.

Over 8,600 lbs GVW use 4 bolt mains. The rest are 2 bolts

I was wondering. For knock sensors they list one for under 8500 lbs and 1 for over 8500 lbs. Both for Vin R though. My GF and I ended up using the under 8500 GVWR one. Think the other one would have a differant effect.

S10, we tuned Erins car just a little on the street and we got knock with hers so we know it works. Its weird mine never showed a count anywhere.

This thread needs to be made into a sticky. Another reason for the conversion is I plan on running the 4L60E transmission. Got to have those perfect shift points if I'm going to get that 11.99 et.

Can someone make this a sticky..... This sounds like the future for Thirdgen ECM tuning unfolding before us.

Can i got a question. Do you need to change to a 4L60E tranny for this new ECM style. What about the Throttle Body do you have to use a LT1 style TB instead of the L98 Style.

I am not sure, but I doubt it. I know the TBI PCM used from 1993-1996 and the LT1 PCM can be used without the 4L60E being attached.

how about retaining cruise, how does that work on the new ECM?

On my formula I run the 700R4 BUT There is no lockup available. I am installing a 79 dollar kit from TCI to correct this. MPH and cruise work perfectly. Its independent from the pcm. B

The PCM doesn't know what kind of throttlebody you are using. The PCM uses 3 wires for the TPS and 4 wires for the IAC ( idle air control ) motor, so it's the same as an LT1 or L98. The 411 has 2 speed outputs, use one of those for the cruise. You don't have to use a 4l60 or 80 trans, but the cool part of using one of them is that you can tune shift points, line pressure, and when the torque convertor locks up, and more.

One more question. Is the ALDL connector the same as on my 1989 L98 Trans Am? Do I have to change it out?

The 411 system uses a different aldl connector. The complete system is OBDII. You'll need EFILive or Tunercat II to work with the newer system. There's a lot of stuff to learn about the new OBDII system, but it works much better.
You have oxygen sensors for each bank, map and maf, tunable trans functions, and a host of other stuff.

Thank you for the information. So I would have to also snag that portion from the donner car and fit it to mine.

Looks like I need to start hitting the local junkyards for Express Vans wiring harnesses. Are there any others wiring harnesses that will work? Like the Tahoe and Silverado's?

I think someone on one of the threads used an S10 harness.
There is a thread on about 4 different forums that I know of. It seems that this changeover is gaining momentum.
I got S10Wildside to build one for me.
I have since pulled one from a 2001 Savanna in case I ever need it. The junk yard guy gave it to me to take it out. Kinda hard to turn down.
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By the way, there's more on the DIY board at
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/di...ml#post2801225 (Sequential Injection on a Gen I Motor!)
69ghost and I started discussing this a year of so ago, and started looking for a way to make the changeover before we found out that other people had already done the change, or were working on the same thing.
The swapping of info from everyone is helping everbody.
Thanks, guys.

You can use an Astro/Safari van harness too. Like 2003-2004 year model.

That's great to know.
I am doing the 411 project in a 41 Chevy pickup and wasn't sure if a stock harness would work, so I got some measurements and S10Wildside helped me out.
I have my PCM and all relays under dash hidden.

Checking EFI Live it looks like one would need around $700 to get started. I assume this includes programing and datalogging.

I didnt connect anything to the 411 for the cruise. It worked itself from the bufferbox I assume. Also when S10 made my harness he built in a ALDL for me. Everything bolted right in and worked perfect on both cars

The 355 with blower should be running this weekend. We'll let you know how everything goes. I also just purchased a 4L60E for my Formula. its going to get a once over in January and should work perfect. I'm really diggin the electronics of it.

Also this seems so eay but its funny how I look back in the days of chip burning and alll the other crap that goes on in the DIY board lol.

EFILive has an auto tune feature for volumetric efficiency that requires their custom OS (operating system) that's speed density mode only. You can enable the MAF later, but I've been told that enabling the MAF after the speed density auto tune requires changes to the MAF table. It's my understanding that the MAF is a redundant source of information for air/fuel values and is really not necessary.

Yep, I just purchased a 4L60E myself. Getting things ready for that project. Maybe in 6 months for the 411pcm. Two things ahead of it. Installing my new long block and then installing the First intake with SLP runners and factory style plenum.

I was all set to convert my car to SD, but I guess I will have to do this mod instead.
does fuel economy go up at all?

Well Before my swap my best with SD was 16mpg with the 411 now we achieved 19 with NO converter lockup yet and a AF ratio of hi13's low 14's its not even tuned for highway yet. I expect mid 20 numbers from the 383 and high 20's even 30 for the 355 since the 355 was pulling 22mpg before the 411 swap.

If this tells you anything, after the 411 swap and tuning, my PRODUCTION LT4 cammed Express is knocking on 20 mpg. 4L80E and 3.73s.

Pics!!! First pic is the 411 ECM and Mikes Custom Harness. Second pic is the Accel Billetech Distributor and Taylor Spiral Pro wires.
Third pic is the Crank Sensor and the last one is where I put the stock bracket from an S10 pickup. I also added an MSD coil to replace the GM one.

Number 4

Keep um coming.
A great way to go.

Just for you Justin

Is the wiring harness going to be made available? Would sure help speed things up.

You might try getting intouch with Mike at www.eficonnection.com.
He built a complete 411 harness for me last summer, but I know he has a lot of other stuff going.
A really good job, by the way.

Mike made both my harnesses. Since the Formula one was the first thirdgen one ever made its missing the Crank relearn wire and a few wires had to be lenghtened, but when I got the second harness for the RS (Girlfriends car) it was all good to go with everything. You do have to mesh your current harness in with the custom one as well. With doing it correctly and making it look factory it took me about 3 hours making sure the connections were good, wire loom was on and it was taped good. I imagained I could have done it in 1.5 but I took my time and watched TV at the same time in the basement lol. I also highly recommend him as a harness builder. I am also going to be swaping everything over for "Justin89Formy's" car as well in about 2-3 months. HIs I believe will be the first thirdgen with the OBD II and a T56 combo. The RS is running with the 700R4 and thats good too. We shall see about the 4L60E in my car in about 3 weeks when the tranny comes back from the builder.

BTW All 3 cars will be SD only. No MAF

Thanks guys. I will be running the 4L60E also. I plan on doing this after my First intake manifold mod. So it will be in the 2nd half of the year. I will contact him when the time gets closer.

This does sound like an intriguing conversion......

If you don't mind I'd like to stop by and see that swap in progress.
Not seeing myself do it this year but, you know how that goes. Always wanted the E trans, this conversion makes that possible.

Couple Q's,
Did I see that this PCM code handles boost?
Anybody do any code work on this for adding a WB?
(or just hacking code in general)

No prob. I will let you know when we do it and you can help with everything if you would like. You can even come to the machine shop if you like to see how to get the balancer reworked. (Victory Engines 130th / Lorain ) Yes, this ECM handles boost. We are running a 2 bar on my GF's car. As for tuning and code work, I am unsure. hit up Jamy at info@LSRacingChips.com

Just sent Mike off the quotation from his site. I was wondering about the ALDL connector and using a lot of the existing TPI harness.

If you look hard at my pic of my ecm, he builds you an fully funtional aldl that can mount in the same spot
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/827967 Supercharged Car Pics with 411

Thanks, you have been very helpfull.

You gotta love going to autozone.... After we did the swap with blower into Erins RS it was throwing a code and before blower it wasnt. I was like hmmmmmm. So I go to autozone and was like my ses light is on and I need a code pulled, but its an OBD II and they were like HEH???? LOL Gotta love the look on their face. I ended up with a Code P1045 (P1035 maybe) which was Manufactor controlled ignition error. (Turns out my dis was loose and moved passed the -2 +2 degrees zone meaning the crank and cam sensor were not in sync anymore)

Anyone here familiar with EFI Live for the tuning? I visited their web site and see that they have a V2 hand held programmer. Is this all that is necessary or do you need a loptop computer which I have?

Sounds good, don't mind getting a little dirty
Victory did my heads for me last year, know right where he's at.
Shoot me a PM when its time.
I'd like to see a program out of one of those, can anybody point me to a bin?

I love working with those guys at Victory. Ray built my shortblock and Erins also. Accually theres no bin anymore. Its called a PCM Flash. You need EFILive , HP Tuners or Tuners OBDII to read it.

I have uploaded the cal files at http://www.monodax.com/forums/tunercat-files/ for the L31/4L80E and L31/4L60E Express Van under two different files. Anyone is welcome to do what they wish with them. There is a vin # in the file also.
You will need TCII and def file for 2001-2003 GM truck to work with them though. This is the same PCM that works the trucks, vettes and F body cars also, but a different flash. I bought one S10 PCM and re-flashed it to the Express flash. I don't have anything else to read OBDII stuff with.
I'm seriously thinking about buying EFILive this spring when I can get back on my 41 truck/OBDII/Ramjet project.
The more that work on this stuff, the more we all know.
Thanks,
Ron

I cant wait to try to flash the tune with a T56. I wonder what all is involved on making the T56 VSS work.

I'll be building a third gen length 411 harness this weekend. If I have enough time, I'll take pics and get them online.

I wish I could say the stock TPI harness could be easily converted to the 411, but it would be a pretty big job...absolutely nothing like converting from the 165 ECM to the 730 ECM. If someone were to ask me to convert their TPI harness to the 411, the labor would be worth much more in the conversion than building a new harness.EFI Connection has all the items you'd need to do the conversion, but keep in mind it would be a really big job.

Different values for the VSS in the PCM.

I have decided to by a complete harness from EFI connection down the road. Will also go with EFI Live and the wideban O2 option.