S10Wildside

tenplus1...keep your eyes on this thread. I may be very close to a distributorless setup for this application. The parts should be ready in a few weeks.

I'm working on a Ram Jet 350, LS2 90mm electronic throttle, coil pack setup with the 411 PCM. This is going into my AWD S-10.

A few early pics here: http://www.eficonnection.com/ramjet350obdii/default.htm

tenplus1

S10Wildside = Da Man!

How serendipitous... I just called my engine builder to finalize the order for my new short block and other assorted goodies. So by the time you get that RamJet LS2 setup going I should have all sorts of shiny new things in my garage to bang my knees on . Guess that's just more motivation to keep the project movin'!

-Dave
...dang, just realized I still have NO idea how I'm going to deal with the exhaust. < thinking out loud > Do LT1 headers fit Patriot Freedom 195cc heads? Or will 3rd gen F-Body headers fit in a 4th gen Camaro?? Hmm... off to do more research!

soultron

This is exactly why I've been watching this thread. Coilpacks.

SABLT194

S10,

I visited your website and your distributorless project is very interesting indeed. I had a thought. How about turning and milling a custom smaller diameter reluctor wheel that would fit in the timing cover. Would the resulting tabs on the custom wheel be too small for the crank position sensor to read? A new reluctor wheel doesn't look all that hard to make. A little turning and some work on the mill with an indexing head.


Steve

S10Wildside

Steve,

That was my first thought...until I saw the reluctor. I don't think it can be reduced to 4 inches and still work.

tenplus1

I had similar thoughts as well. I even got to thinking that one could, theoretically at least, use a smaller/different reluctor in conjunction with a simple little interface module to read the CKP output and "translate" that signal into something that the PCM could use.

EXAMPLE: You stick a small, relatively low-resolution reluctor (4X?, 8X?... whatever suits the application) and sensor under the timing cover as suggested. Then you pipe that CKP signal out to your fancy little translator module. That module reads the simple low-res pulse train coming from the sensor and interpolates missing pulses, changes pulse widths, etc. It then spits out a new (more "complex") signal that the PCM can read. I don't think designing such a module would be that hard, but I haven't really stopped to think about it (yet).

Of course, there are many considerations with doing this. Not the least of which is the fact that if your "universal translator" module ever decides to take a crap on you, all sorts of ugliness may ensue. Wonder what the PCM would do if it suddenly got a stream of completely random garbage halfway down the 1/4...???

Anyway, that was just another one of my goofy "what if" ideas. Anybody want to fund a development project???

scuzz

This is getting to be a great subject.
Good luck, Wildside.
Ron

SABLT194

s10,

I did a quicky little CAD layout. A .250" wide tab on a 7.5 reluctor would end up being .142 wide on a 4" reluctor. That may not be all that whacked out. Do you have real dimensions for an LS1 reluctor? I could easily draw one up and scale it down to see what it looks like for real. I would gladly post results. It's just a little curiousity project.

Steve

jwscab

going to a smaller diameter wheel is OK as long as the reluctor sensor head is small enough. If it's too wide, all that will come out of the sensor is a little blip, which may not be a wide enough trigger.....(might not even get a blip)

likewise, using the existing wheel right next to a balancer may not work, becuase the balancer is iron, and will affect the sensitivity of the reluctor. Your best bet is to build the wheel slightly larger than the balancer. If you make it thin enough, you might even sneak it behind the balancer, on some studs/spacers, and bolt the pulleys on with the studs sticking out of the front of the balancer with some nuts.

no matter what you do, just make sure you scale the notches by degrees, (if the notch is 10 degrees wide, it's ten degrees wide, regardless of the diameter)

I'd like to see the reluctor too, if you have one and can snap some pics.

SABLT194

Im with you on that. My plan wuould be to draw the existing LS1 reluctor to scale, then do a scale down in both X and Y axis to retain the proper angles on the tabs.

Steve

tenplus1

SABLT194-
Not sure if you're trying to actually design the smaller reluctor or just get a measurement of the arc length as it varies with diameter. But if the latter, it seems easier to just calculate it, no?...

s = t*r

...where s is arc length, t is arc angle in radians, and r is radius


So, to find new arc length given existing arc length and diameter:

EXAMPLE:
8" diameter reluctor (r = 4")
1/4" arc length reluctor tooth (s = 0.25")

t = s/r = 0.25/4 = 0.0625 radians (or 3.581 degrees)

pick new reluctor diameter, say 4" (r = 2")...

s = t*r = 0.0625*2 = 0.125" or 1/8"

Incidentally, running the example you gave through this same calculation, I get 0.13333..... Maybe I missed something? Anybody wanna check me on this stuff?

Justin89Formy

ahhh!! math!!!

Mkos1980

Well for those of you wondering about running a 4L60E. The PCM with the express van tune and 4L80E configuration wont work. LOL. I am trying the 4L60E configure tongiht so we will see how it works out. With the 4L80E PCM My car when put in OD Would start off in a locked 4th gear, shift to third then shift to 2nd lol. It was completely backwards lol Hopefully it'll start off in 1st to 2, 3, 4 and so on lol Well see.

Justin89Formy

the weather is too bad to work on cars :finger:

Mkos1980

Theres a big differance between pulling the front of the motor off and installing the pcm and just putting it in gear in the garage. Justin = 6 hours. Matt = 3 minutes :finger:

SABLT194

I was just going to do a quicky cad design just to see how funky an LS1 reluctor would look scaled down to fit under the timing cover. Probably only take about 15 minutes if I had the real LS1 OD , all of the LSI tab and slot angles, and slot depth.

Steve

Mkos1980

With the 4L60E flash the car shifts in order now lol

Justin89Formy

all packed and gassed up for the trip to ohio

Mkos1980

Let the fun begin lol. We should have Justins car done by mid tomorrow afternoon and dynoed by tomorrow night, and with a good street tune Saturday. He'll be all set for a cruise home on Sunday .

scuzz

About how long is it taking you guys to change over a thirdgen car?
Ron

Mkos1980

To do the entire thing, harness and all and make it look perfect. We got about 20 hours into justins car. We just fired it up last night at 11:30PM (Yea the cops came over to yell about the noise lol)

It would have taken less time, but we all thirdgen guys know theres always problems that we run into. As in a broken bolt, missing bolt (why the **** doesnt this fit and so forth lol)

We still have another 4 hours with justins car probebly tying in the fans and making it all look good.

scuzz

It seems that every project I start takes 3 times longer than I expected.

Justin89Formy

Got the LS1 PCM swap complete today. HUGE thanks to MKOS1980 for that! Car idles perfectly at 750 RPMs, accelerates perfectly smooth too. All gauges work, AC works, Speedo works and is 100% accurate. Took the car to Akron Horsepower today to have Jamy of LS RacingChips dyno tune my car.

338.63 RWHP and 342.94 RWTQ done on their dynojet dyno. I was looking for 300rwhp so im really happy. Jamy had a blast tuning it since I was his first tune with the trick flow twisted wedge heads, and he learned some stuff as far as hooking the speedo up to the T56. I have some crappy cell phone videos that I will post when I get home, and I have my dyno charts here that will hopefully scan later tonight so I can post them. That might have to wait too, since its late and I have to hit the road at like 5-6am to go to Syracuse.

Again, the driveability is so much better, and the car is a damn rocket on the highway now. It would lose power in the upper RPMs because it was running so rich, but now its just smooth, powerful acceleration until about 6000rpms. Jamy's tune is awesome. He had it nailed within 4 pulls!

Oh, and I gained about 7rwhp by taking off the stock air intake. Im going to have to replace that next.

CashMunson, nice meeting you! Dwayne, nice meeting you too! S10wildside, again...great job on the harness. Everything worked perfectly and was superior quality! Im sure you put a ton of effort into these harnesses, and it sure shows. I know I ordered the harness a month or so ago, but I saw it for the first time the other day and I was amazed!

Car is finally running how I wanted it

Justin89Formy

heres my dyno results

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tenplus1

Hey Justin - congrats on the great numbers and successful tune.

>300 RWTQ from 1800 to dang near 6k... Very nice. I bet that's one fun (and fast) car to drive, esp. with the T56. And just in time to take advantage of the spring weather.

I'm still trying to decide exactly what direction to take with my project. Think I'll be yanking out the old v6 in the next week or so, and the new 383 short block should be complete around Tues. or Wed. Aside from ordering parts here and there though, I've been waiting (patiently... with eager anticipation) for S10W to sort out his RamJet LS2 DIS setup in the hope that I can glean some useful bits of info from his experience. [*Hey Wildside, any updates, eh???] In the meantime, I think I'll buy a 24x reluctor to play around with. I plan to design up a smaller version of it and fabricate one on my buddy's CNC. Then I'll do some experimentation to see if a standard (or other type) sensor can reliably detect the smaller teeth. Should be interesting. I'll be sure to post any results.

1989GTATransAm

Justin, what cam are you running? Nice numbers.

S10Wildside

On Friday I made a few observations with the oscillicope connected to both the crank and cam sensor signals with my 00 Firehawk. I'm also observing crank reluctor and cam position with #1 TDC on a LS1 short block. I'm waiting for a friend to machine an adapter to hold the reluctor. I'm also very busy with harness work. This is a priority to me and you can be sure that I'll post results after it's all figured out. Unfortunately I can't spend much time making a big discussion about my findings while I'm still working it out...I've been pulling a lot of late nights lately to keep up. But I'm excited about this and will do what I can to make it happen soon.


Justin - congrats on the results! I heard you made an LS1 car on I-90 look slow today.

__________________
http://www.eficonnection.com


1991 Trans Am Convertible (Project)
5.0L TPI Engine, T5


2000 Firehawk
Trans Am, SLP Firehawk, LS1, 4l60E