TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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Here is my attempt at a high-flow air lid for TPI Camaro's.....
I felt a nice increase in power from this mod.
This is the bottom view before I reattached the bottom piece.
Notice the 1/2" raised walls on the bottom perimeter, also the 4" O.D. 3 1/2" I.D. outlet with no bottle neck step down.
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I used a 4" I.D. x 10" silicone hose w/ thin wall aluminum insert to attach the lid to the throttle body. The main restrictions in the lid (the factory 2 5/8" outlet neck and the thin bend over the core support) have been eliminated. The best part is, it clears the factory hood! I made this last winter. Sorry it took so long for me to post the pics. I've picked up a few more lids and I'm almost finished modding those.
I put it together with a two part epoxy that takes a specific gun and mixing tube to shoot the stuff. The rest of the materials are ABS plastic strips (1/4" thick) for the raised walls and sheet ABS for sealing the seems where I cut and modified. The outlet neck is a PVC coupler from Lowes.
I'll dig up some pics of it all painted and installed on the car. I think it turned out pretty nice and I definitely felt an increase with it. It felt like more of an increase than the Ram-Air boxes made.
Very nice. I really like the idea of a higher flowing factory style dual snorkel lid.As far as I know there's no such thing on the market right now. What exactly are your plans for your "spares?"
I heated mine and raised the roof at the pinch with a torch and a screwdriver. This combined with other mods helped my car quite a bit and I'm still running a stock long block L98 with a gutted MAF. The air lids on our cars do hinder flow and can use some work. Does this clear a stock hood? I raised mine only about 1/4 of an inch and the hood rubs at a few spots.
The plenum area is raised about 1/2" throughout the entire body. Yes, it does clear the stock hood.
The only restriction now is the surface area of the factory size square air filters because I reused the factory lower filter housing so the bigger lid will snap in like the stock lid.
I figured that 4thgens have highflow lids, so why can't we?
I really would not worry about sucking in water. I have a very similar setup and for the first two years of daily summer driving I did not have a single issue. My car is also very low, so it was a good test car in some of the storms I drove through!!
__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2753481/1
MOTOR--355, SR Upper&Lower, ported AFR 180's wt comp 987 springs, 1.6 comp pro mag RR's, 6'' eagle forged rods, forged eagle crank, Pro true forged pistons, 9:1 comp, TES 1-5/8 headers, 3" hooker cat back, 4th gen tips. Best time:13.2 wt a 2.3 60FT. NO TRACTION!! (Forced ind. is next)
I'll buy one!!! I've totally megaported my entire TPI and it would LOVE to breath through one of your boxes!!! I'd even buy one that wasn't 'finished', just roughed together!!! Any thoughts? I'm hooked with Paypal and could send you $$$$ at the snap of your talented engineering fingers!! Nitro-Nicky
__________________
Started IROC project in 2006 thinking to mimic a modern day stealth Mad Max's police Interceptor. Am attempting to maximize every possible cfm out of the TPI system. /Just replaced ENTIRE suspension with Spohn-Moog-UMI/ //Dying to learn PROM programing
Still haven't dyno'd the car or ran the 1/4 with my current combo, but when I do, I'll make one pull with the stock lid and one with the high flow lid.
If you can physically "feel" a postive difference in acceleration when you mash the gas pedal, you've most likely made at least a 10 hp gain at the flywheel. Most people can't feel anything below a 10 hp increase. I personally felt a nice gain on my car.
This is a tech question response to a few members' PM's (cause a few guys had the same questions):
I hope this helps..
I added almost 1/2 inch to the bottom, (not a 1/4). I did not have to adjust my hood at all. If your factory lid touches the hood on the topside, then you probably have a 1/2 inch or more space between the bottom of your lid and the core-support (provided that your car has never been wrecked in the front). You won't gain much by just opening up the mouth because the biggest restriction is where the first bend is where the lid is formed starting to go over the core-support torwards the motor. That part on the factory lid is very thin as far as air flow goes. This is where I started to add about 1/2 inch to the whole underside of the lid intern increasing plenum volume. Then I opened up the mouth by grafting on a 3 1/2 inch I.D. 4 inch O.D. pipe to get rid of the 2 5/8 inch D-shaped factory mouth which is also a restriction. You should see a gain even on a stock motor, but you will see an even bigger gain on a built up motor that needs more air to begin with.
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
After a light sanding, I used epoxy primer to cover the whole lid (minus the snap fasteners that I masked off). Then I hit it with a satin black, and then with a clear coat.
I bought a 4 inch I.D. x 12 inch silicone straight sleeve and 4 inch O.D. x 6 inch piece of aluminum intake tubing all from www.intakehoses.com
Then I cut the aluminum piece down to a hair under 5 inches and shaped one end to match the oval of the front of my throttle body. Then I wedged that piece in to the middle of the silicone connecting sleeve (to keep it from sucking flat under acceleration). I attached the newly made boot to the lid and to the throttle with factory throttle body hose clamps that I had laying arround.
If you have a MAF setup, just get a 4 inch I.D. to 3 inch I.D. reducer rubber coupler from the plumbing isle at Lowes or Home Depot. This should adapt the lid to a MAF sensor.
Heck, at that point, the MAF would be the only restriction!
Hmmm..... maybe I should modify a MAF sensor?
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Mustang MAF's use the same 5 volt signal layout do they not? Either that or an LS1 maf would rock. I know you can buy that Maflator thing but it's like 200 bucks... and a big ugly box. It would be nice if we could find something that we could build or convert over ourselves.
do you think i could get away with jst using the top peice and making some duct work that attaches to it? if not, does anyone have a bottom peice for sale>> Thank you
I'll buy one!!! I've totally megaported my entire TPI and it would LOVE to breath through one of your boxes!!! I'd even buy one that wasn't 'finished', just roughed together!!! Any thoughts? I'm hooked with Paypal and could send you $$$$ at the snap of your talented engineering fingers!! Nitro-Nicky
Well, I'm (Nitro) still up for one when one's available; roughed out or fully finished! I'd like to end up getting enough air in there with my mega bored out plenum intake to support a 383 someday instead of just the ZZ4 I'm putting together.....
__________________
Started IROC project in 2006 thinking to mimic a modern day stealth Mad Max's police Interceptor. Am attempting to maximize every possible cfm out of the TPI system. /Just replaced ENTIRE suspension with Spohn-Moog-UMI/ //Dying to learn PROM programing
I haven't forgotten about you guys. I have one more car to finish before I get started back on the air lids. I should be finished with that Formula in about 2 weeks. Sorry for the delays!
it has to be away to make this work on our maf cars could you take out the internals on the maf and somehow put them in a 4 inch piece of pvc pipe I have a couple laying around and will try something
it has to be away to make this work on our maf cars could you take out the internals on the maf and somehow put them in a 4 inch piece of pvc pipe I have a couple laying around and will try something
sure can problem is your maf will then be flowing an exponential ammount more than the factory smaller tubed 1 would under the same values. In other words it will need tuned. A user on here did just that with a 3 1/2 inch pipe and he had to increase the tables 36% for the added flow.
Actually, all you would need is a rubber 4 inch I.D. to 3 inch I.D. reducer that you can pick up at any Lowes or Home Depot. That is how I would adapt it to a MAF car....
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Again, sorry guys..... I wish I could clone myself that way I could get them finished faster! I will post pics here on this thread when they are done.
Thanks for all of the continued patience!
Mike
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Last edited by 1bad91Z; 02-01-2008 at 08:34 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Very nice piece of work. Having a MAF car and recently built 395 cu. in. stroker, I was in search of a larger MAF and air lid. Having nothing to buy in the aftermarket, I fabricated this combo, along with a custom Eprom, My car is a little faster and I removed the air restrictions that I thought might be holding me back.
My thumbnail pic failed because I have included it into any thread here on TPI. I inserted the guts of the MAF into a 3.5" OD aluminum tube. On this board we are calling it the Mega MAF. I estimate that it should flow 900 CFM, minimum.
Now my restriction, as you know, turns out to be the air lid. I had purchased extra 3.5" tubing, so I pressed one end into an oval. I never took the air lid apart. I cut away a small piece by piece of the air lid, untill the oval tube fit into the air lid. With a bit of body filler, I had it fixed into position. After dealing with some alignment issues, I added fiberglass cloth and epoxy. I still need to sand and paint. You will find a pic in the post below:
[quote=doc;3624802]My thumbnail pic failed because I have included it into any thread here on TPI. I inserted the guts of the MAF into a 3.5" OD aluminum tube. On this board we are calling it the Mega MAF. I estimate that it should flow 900 CFM, minimum.
Hey Doc!! .....Gotta Love that Mega-MAF you built!!!! His lid, your reinvention, my ported TPI.... can't wait till it's all in and hooked up to a Dyno! Nitro
__________________
Started IROC project in 2006 thinking to mimic a modern day stealth Mad Max's police Interceptor. Am attempting to maximize every possible cfm out of the TPI system. /Just replaced ENTIRE suspension with Spohn-Moog-UMI/ //Dying to learn PROM programing
My engine builder has been dragging his feet on getting my new 355 built for over six months now, but the crank is in the block and he's doing the porting on the heads and intake base right now. Most people who have done porting on their TPI systems don't seem to bother porting the base; but since I'm experimenting with how much flow I can get to the heads, every possible inch has been worked. I should have weighed the plenum and SLP runners before and after to see what % of initial weight was carved off! Now the Edelbrock Base and WORLD Torquer Sportsman heads are being opened up together.
~1bad91Z~, who mentioned to you about his air lid modification, has me on the top of his list for one of his modified units. Hopefully he'll get one finished and sent to me in time for me to build and add your Mega-MAF by the time my engine is done. So I'm just waiting for him and my engine to be finished; guess I should start on building one of your units while I'm waiting. I'd be happy to share the before and after DYNO pulls with the two of you once it happens.
I ALSO need to set some time aside and learn how to start programming my PROMS. I had CHIPSforLess burn my first one with amazing results. I'm sure I won't need a PROM for the Dyno testing, although I've never had an actual engine professionally tested before it went in a car.
How would you feel about getting me some of the PROM data from your MAF build/experimenting that I could use as a baseline starting point????
If I've got my PROM burning part's list correct, it should run me about $400 to get completely set up; unless I find some of the equipment used here on our "For Sale" board...... Kinda a long answer to your question though........
Nitro
__________________
Started IROC project in 2006 thinking to mimic a modern day stealth Mad Max's police Interceptor. Am attempting to maximize every possible cfm out of the TPI system. /Just replaced ENTIRE suspension with Spohn-Moog-UMI/ //Dying to learn PROM programing
I will tell you exactly what I put in for the scalar value for each of the 6 MAF tables. These values you will want to use to get the MAF to read correctly, other adjustments can be made with the fuel injector constant and the fuel pressure. Remember, I stuffed the MAF guts into a 3.5" aluminum tube. These MAF scalars will not work if any other size tubing is used.
Good Morning doc, Yes, I totally understand- I was thinking that it would give me a good base start once I've finished these extra air-flow modifications. Plus, I saved your cfm info from your original post answer to my MAF education question. I'm doing a lot of subtle changes and will need to come up with a couple different PROM's for street/strip/smog.
When I started planning out the long-term build on my IROC two years ago, I was fairly adept at R&R, but had no knowledge of fuel injection, camshaft art, power ratio's, etc. It's been quite a learning experience! I'm sure learning how to do my own PROM programing is going to be a total candy-store experience!!!
I have been using one of the G-Tech devices to measure and record each step of the last year's changes to be sure I'm going forward and not backwards. I keep tuning on my worn out L98 engine so that I have the basic's down before I transfer in the new long-block. I'm just glad that I didn't get suckered in on buying some Kragen Auto 'Hyperchip' PROM:~]!!!
NITRO
__________________
Started IROC project in 2006 thinking to mimic a modern day stealth Mad Max's police Interceptor. Am attempting to maximize every possible cfm out of the TPI system. /Just replaced ENTIRE suspension with Spohn-Moog-UMI/ //Dying to learn PROM programing
Scalar values for each MAF table, first two characters is what was stock, second set of two chararters is what i program for the Mega MAF.
1 17 1F
2 30 40
3 53 6F
4 87 B4
5 CF FF
6 FF FF
Yes, I max out the 255 gms/sec flow in table 5.....
Also, you must realize that the '87' above really represents 135, and 'FF' is 255. Save this stuff somewhere safe.
I really like the idea of a higher flowing factory style dual snorkel lid.
As far as I know there's no such thing on the market right now. What exactly are your plans for your "spares?"
