What would be a good set of heads for my 350 TPI? Mostly stock with ZZ4 Cam. My problem is its more expensive to get my stock L98 heads worked and honestly I don't trust the shops around here to do them. I've been looking on ebay at a set of Darteagle heads for around $400 but I really done know what I'm looking for. I want lowend torque and more HP so what would be a good set of heads. I found these.... what do yu think? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dart-...spagenameZWDVW

Go with 180cc heads... 215cc is too big for stock even w/ ZZ4 cam.

Plus, you will see more power if you upgrade the intake & runners AND get better flowing heads.

Do a search and see what others are running with similar setups.

Hope this helps.

new vortecs are less than 700, modified vortec for higher lift cams from scoggin dickey is like 630$ new.
im sure u could find some and do the upgrade.

other than that u gotta look around, but be careful buying used heads bc they could be cracked or warped in which if they could not be fixed u will have wasted your money. new patriots are the same as vortecs but flow better in higher lift ranges are aluminum and i belive 800 brand new shipped to your door.

Very true. But keep in mind you will need a vortec intake and those run around $350+

I believe there are some companies out there taking the basic vortec casting and drilling and tapping them for older style intakes, I can't remember who is doing this though, maybe someone can help out with the name...

So you want to choke a good flowing set of new vortec heads with an older style intake???

you can get a good pair of aluminum heads assembled for that much, get 190cc ones too, look around for the aluminum ones

The heads will already be in place though for updating the intake at a later date.

patriot heads for just under 800 seem to be the BEST deal BUT are 1206 gasket size and i dont think stock TPI bases can be matched to that large size...i know my old HSR cant be

As formula_novice started to say, Vortec heads also have different shaped intake ports as well as a different intake bolt pattern than stock TPI stuff. You need a specific Vortec intake so you dont have mismatched ports.

u can get the vortec bases for 400 i believe from scoggin dickey but im sure u could find one used for 200 or so.

newer castings with vortec style heads.... i stated it before PATRIOT FREEDOM SERIES, is based off the vortec head, combustion chamber etc, and i believe is drilled for both chevy and vortec style intakes.
i kno i got a pair of patriot performance 195cc aluminum heads for 860$ and they are tapped for both intakes as well as centerbolt/perimiter valve covers. Oh and they accept the 1205 felpro gasket... mines the 195cc and it takes the 1205. and my new style HSR does fit so im sure the smaller 180cc will fit as well.

another person who sells heads to look at is Larrys perforance, track pro aluminum 190cc heads fully assembled is 860$ i believe. could be wrong but i know there pretty cheap.

are you sure? Everywhere i've seen these heads for sale say they must use 1206 gasket size??

how big are the ports

ummm i can tell u its within the ports of the 1205, i believe its 1.25x 2.125. this is me with a ruler lol so who knows, i posted the same question on a thread not to long ago and everyone said that the 1205 would fit fine, and since mine is the newer HSR it will also accept the 1206 bc it had material added. they said the 1206 is for larger heads like the 215cc etc. or ported HSR's and ported larger runner heads.
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i also read in my HSR instruction sheet that it uses a 1205 felpro gasket.

thats what i was wondering cuz i measured my intake and i have NO room for porting without material. my ports are roughly 2.0 x 1.2 and a felpro 1205 is like 2.09 x 1.28. 1206 is 2.21 x 1.31

i could widen my intake but never touch 2.1-2.2 inches tall

i wont be using traditional gaskets, i use liquid stuff called RIGHT STUFF...its awesome and seals very well so maybe i can squeeze the intake on those heads

In case the question comes up, "Can I use my old intake with the vortec heads?" Here is your answer.

yea thank god the HSR came out with an updated verson with alot more material around the runners to port that bad boy for the 1206.

vortec heads need vortec base plain and simple and alloys pic explains it for all the tards out there.

i thought it was mentioned here that the patriot heads are based off the vortecs? is this correct? does it have that intake port setup?

I would be patient and try to find a used aluminum head. Maybe by the time you run across something you'd have a few more dollars saved up too. If you're going to spend 600, you might as well spend a bit more and get an aluminum head.

So Blackbird, are the aluminum Patriot heads a perfect fit for my Scoggin Dickey Vortec TPI base? I was going to go with these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-V...0411QQtcZphoto

It's an aftermarket casting of the stock Vortec head with some inprovements for durability. But if those Patriots work with a Vortec base then I might consider spending the money for the Patriots.

Dart Eagles, new, are $400 EACH head. You can't get much of anything new under $700 assembled. $750+ is entry level for Dart Iron Eagles and World Sportsman IIs, fully assembled. If you go through Summit they start around $800+

Don't buy used heads off ebay, or even here, if you can help it. I got totally screwed over by a member on here (see my sig line) who sold me "like new" Sportman II heads that had valves bent like 1/2" and the seats were all collided with. The machine work to fix the heads brought the cost up past new, and they are still not as good as new.

There is nothing wrong with the 200cc Sportsman /Dart Iron heads on your engine. I run them on a little 327 and I did not lose any low end grunt. The thing just flat runs w/ 200cc Sportsmans and a roller cam.

would always recommenhd using real gaskets they seal much better and look a hell of a lot nicer than RTV ooozing out all over the place if it would be a good idea to use that then GM would have done it like that from the factory and saved a whole lot of money on manufacturing cost

just my

Oh my god. This guy thinks he can make up the difference between vortecs and regular ports using RIGHT STUFF? Not to mention the huge port mismatch problem.

LOLOLOLOL. Make sure you add some baling wire while you're at it.

Occasionally a post comes along that just makes me smack myself in the head and wonder. Here's one of em.

i cant see how a real paper gasket would seal better than RIGHT STUFF... it fills everything and if done right, there is little oozing.
my local LTx/Lx1 shop been using it for awhile and they recommended it. i tried it and my HSR never leaked at all, and they were notorious for china wall/rear head seal leaking. My manifold never really matched well to the china wall and around the rear of the cylinder heads, but the RIGHT STUFF did the job well.

NOOOOO!! i meant 1206 port heads to my ported HSR. HSR intake to a 1206 leaves VERY little material left on top to cover the head port. NOT talkin about vortecs

still havent confirmed if the patriot heads are just aluminum vortec castings or not. if they are vortecs then obviously i cant run them

soooo i have a bad head gasket on my neon should i just use that RIGHT STUFF and i wont have to worry bout it anymore that would be awesome instead of replacing the gasket every 50,000 miles i wouldnt have to to do it ever again AWESOME!!!!!

go ahead and knock the RIGHT STUFF....if you havent tried it i wouldnt type a response.

do a search you'll find many that use it with great success

I have used the right stuff many, many times. But trying to mold it to cover up a 1/2" port mismatch between Vortecs and regular chevy intake is just plain stupid.

It's not the RIGHT STUFF that is the problem now, it's the user.

i totally agree....I never said i'm trying to cover that up nor have i recommended trying that

you guys are misreading what i'm saying. Again, go re read what i've said above

now back to topic.... ARE the PATRIOT heads a VORTEC intake port?

this is what i'm refering too
i have not been able to confirm this from either patriot or online ebay sellers that this is a vortec head

lol patriot heads are tricky.... i kno they are based off the vortec head... basiaclly it is a copy but in aluminum and they fix all the lil problems. im not toally sure if they bolt up to both intakes the freedom series.... i kno for sure they accept center bolt/perimiter valve covers. im basing this off my Patriot performance 195cc aluminum heads that supposidly bolt up to both style intakes and both types of valve covers.... i bought mine from skips white performance. go to there ebay site and call them to find out the specs for sure.... im gona be running my patriots with the chevy style HSR.

i would have thought that patriot would be able to tell u lol.... thats weird.

i emailed patriot.. they dont have much info listed on their site. Also, i've seen skip white's page on ebay and read it a few times over, nothing mentioned of vortecs so i dont think its a vortec head, atleast not a vortec port head for vortec designed intakes

yea i remember that CHP did a test very recent id say last 6 months or so where they tested stock vortecs vs the new super cheap patriot freedom series... i think they used the same intake for both, i havent been able to find the article