TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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ok, I bought a 350 block that was just bored .040 over.
I'm going to get it looked at a local shop to make sure its been magnafluxed or pressure tested so I know 100% its all good.
I have the Edelbrock high flow runners and intake. With the SLP air intake kit now on my 305.
I was also thinking of getting AFR heads also.
My main question is...will my Edelbrock hi flow combo flow enough for a 383 stroker kit?? I want to plan this out as much as I can before I do anything.
I'm painting my car this year, my 305 runs great.
I just want to get my ducks in a row when I start my build. Maybe in 2009.
I was thinking Stealth ram, but then I would have to get a new hood.
Any thoughts or ideas.
I know people are going to say vortech heads ect. But they wont fit with my intake.
The Stealth Ram fits under the Firebird hood, just not the Corvette hood.
Also, a 383 is a 350 30 over and a 400 crank, 40 over is like a 385.
No, it won't flow enough and you'll have a overly biased torque motor due to the natural torque of the 383 and the runner length of the TPI.
Are you sure? Because if this is correct....that's the route I'm going.
I was told It wouldn't fit. That Id have to get a cowl hood to make it fit.
And I wasn't going to do that.
What if I have everything ported to the max?
I know my plenum can be ported more. And the Edelbrock's can also.
1.The factory plenum is a good unit and can be opened up to flow any amount of air you will need.
2.The Edelbrock TPI intake manifold can also be opened up to flow well over 300 cfm. That should be enough to get the job done. Threads on this subject.
3. The Edelbrock TPI runners is where the problem will come in. I have seen them opened up somewhat but not nearly enough for what you are doing. If they were mine I would siamese them in as far as I could at the top. Then I would find a way to open the runners up to an inside diameter of between 1.75" to 1.80". You can open the Edelbrock Intake manifold runner entrance to 1.80" to match with no problems. I have done it.
What we do here locally in SoCal is to use the SLP runners. Many threads on this for details. Out of the box the 2nd version of the SLP's are not that great. However they can be opened up to flow a good amount of air.
Are you sure? Because if this is correct....that's the route I'm going.
I was told It wouldn't fit. That Id have to get a cowl hood to make it fit.
And I wasn't going to do that.
What if I have everything ported to the max?
I know my plenum can be ported more. And the Edelbrock's can also.
2. Will it fit under the stock hood of my car?
Yes on the Camaro. Yes on the Firebird. But, it will hit the underside of the hood on the structural support. removal of that and should be fine.
So, yes, I am sure it will fit :-)
The StealthRam is a better option then porting the TPI system, imho.
as said above, you can get some performance out of those TPI parts but it will not want to rev much over 4500 rpms. YOu'll have to keep head size down and smaller cam.
depends on what you want out of the combo. most TPI 383's just make huge torque numbers and just ok hp numbers
HSR will fit with some clearancing to the hood bracing. you'll have to see. Much better intake choice tho.
thx guys.
I think thats the route I will be going then. I can imagine the $$$ to get the things I have now ported to flow better. Prabably cheaper getting the stealth ram set up.
If I go with the stealth ram then I can get a set of vortec heads. Unless I want to save more $$ and still get the AFR heads.
But the aluminum vortec heads I heard are pretty good.
I just want a good running motor. I'd like to see 450 - 500hp #'s
If I'm going to build it....I want to take my time and build it right.
My little 305 runs great now.
This Spring, I'm welding in my SFC, and painting my car.
I can't afford to build this motor all at one time. So I'd like to start a list and buy things when I can.
But my 1st step is to take the block in and make sure its 100% ready to go.
if you want 450-500hp, then go AFR heads and stealth ram. that what i'm gonna be running. big cam like the comp 282 or 288hr will make that power.
When are you doing your build? I would like to be informed on how your doing with it. And how much things cost ect.
Specially the outcome.
Even if I make 400hp on motor...ill be a happy thirdgener!
i'm working on it now...started collecting the parts, and have the old L98 shortblock laying in the car ready to be yanked out. Not sure if i'm gonna build the L98 block or buy a Golen Shortblock with a 4 bolt main block. I'd like to hang onto the original block just in case
I cant tell you when its gonna be done but i can tell you what i'm gonna run. Basically AFR 195 heads, custom hydraulic roller cam from BRE (probly similar to the comp 288HR), Stealth ram intake, probly eagle forged rotating assembly with SRP or mahle forged pistons, either hooker 2210 longtubes or the stainless steel Hawks longtubes, and custom 3inch dual exhaust or single 4 inch...not sure yet on that. shooting for if not over 400whp thru my auto 700r4
any other details or cost of things so far, give me a PM. we'll talk there or we can share it hear in the thread
Thats great, I appreciate you sharing that with me. Theres SO many options out there. I'm scared to jump into something I have no clue about. Then change my mind and spend more money.
I would like to get a list like you have.
And one by one buy parts and save everything up.
I have not thought about exhaust yet. I installed the sportline springs. I'm a little scared to go with long tubes. I'd like to go with the 4" single.
My buddy has that on his 4th gen HOSS camaro. It sounds really good! very much!
yeah you gotta do your research and know what your building so you buy the parts the first time through. You dont wanna have to change plans down the build road and end up spending more money than you have to.
Like i said, i'm buyin up parts alittle at a time so i dont rush into something yet. Gives me time to really think this thru. I'm looking for a max effort HSR 383 here, revving to over 6500 i hope. we'll see what happens. There are alot of options and ways to do this.
I too am building a 383 stroker right now. It is in the shop with the bottom end completed waiting for the rest. I am going to go with a pro comp head like the same design as the eledbrock heads. The cam is a nitrous cam as I want to run a 150 shot on the car. I want to run the Stock TPI setup. It will be ported and what not but its my understanding that from this thread that it will not flow enough for more than 4500 RMP? That seems real low. I don't have all the engine specks yet but I will soon I am going to run larger injectors and would like some advice on that as well. Let me know what you guys think, I will keep you updated on whats going on with mine. I will not put the engine in until the car is painted with the ram air hood and all. So that will be the slowdown in my schedules. I have enough to complete the engine as of now and that should be done in the next month. But like I said it won't go in the car till its painted and the ram air is all ready to go. I am putting lots and lots of money into this build. I want to stick with my TPI for two reasons, one is I bought an IROC Z just for the TPI and two I like the look of the TIP so even swapping out the runners is not appealing to me. If I get it all done and I feel I do not get the power desired from it maybe I will look at another system. But I am deff going to first run and tune my TPI system. ANy advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't think any comments or concerns are dumb.
I too am building a 383 stroker right now. It is in the shop with the bottom end completed waiting for the rest. I am going to go with a pro comp head like the same design as the eledbrock heads. The cam is a nitrous cam as I want to run a 150 shot on the car. I want to run the Stock TPI setup. It will be ported and what not but its my understanding that from this thread that it will not flow enough for more than 4500 RMP? That seems real low. I don't have all the engine specks yet but I will soon I am going to run larger injectors and would like some advice on that as well. Let me know what you guys think, I will keep you updated on whats going on with mine. I will not put the engine in until the car is painted with the ram air hood and all. So that will be the slowdown in my schedules. I have enough to complete the engine as of now and that should be done in the next month. But like I said it won't go in the car till its painted and the ram air is all ready to go. I am putting lots and lots of money into this build. I want to stick with my TPI for two reasons, one is I bought an IROC Z just for the TPI and two I like the look of the TIP so even swapping out the runners is not appealing to me. If I get it all done and I feel I do not get the power desired from it maybe I will look at another system. But I am deff going to first run and tune my TPI system. ANy advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't think any comments or concerns are dumb.
Brad the Superlative!
Dont even waste your time with Stock runners and base. IT will NOT make power. It will choke out. You probably wont make more than 275rwhp, if that. When you could be making 350rwhp. Its a waste of your time and effort. Do a search, or be stubborn and find out for yourself.
Dont even waste your time with Stock runners and base. IT will NOT make power. It will choke out. You probably wont make more than 275rwhp, if that. When you could be making 350rwhp. Its a waste of your time and effort. Do a search, or be stubborn and find out for yourself.
How can it be that bad? I thought that the TPI was good, I like the look of it a lot too. I just looked up the stealth ram and man their pricey.
TPI SuKKs! You havent been around here long enough and havent experimented yet. Stealth Ram's are CHEAP by comparison to building a decent TPI or SuperRam intake, or a MiniRam. A Stealth Ram on a STOCK L98(Tpi 350) long block will extend the powerband at least 500 usable rpms. That How RESTRICTIVE the TPI intake is. It RESTRICTS EVEN A STOCK MOTOR! It only flows about 200cfm. Stock cylinder heads flow 200cfm. Anymore and its a HUGE RESTRICTION!
Why do you think the LT1 was born? Look at the differences. NOT much difference in camshaft or cylinder heads.(yes theres a difference but not A LOT). Look at the intake 17 inch long TPI runners and 3 INCH LONG LT1 runners. Slap and LT1 intake thats converted or a Stealth Ram on a L98, and it'll run 'bout as good as an LT1.
Well I am sure with the LTI modded intake you would have to change a lot of other things as well as get the harness and ECU and everything. How hard it to modify the intake and then what all ells would you need. Can you use the stock distributer with the Stealth system, What about and MSD 6 box?
so can i buy the stealth ram intake and use my stock computer and tb? cause if so i will do that. I like the idea of the stock computer and distrib and tuning it with all that. I am thinking i can do that.
yes, the stealth ram comes with plenum and lower manifold. then you order the fuel rail kit with either adjustable fuel pressure regulator or non adjustable regulator.
then order fuel line parts to connect the fuel lines. Now your car is originally a TPI car or is it a TBI? Tht will change a few things
STock TPI throttle body will work. I'd recommend a 52mm one tho for a 383.
HSR with nitrous is MUCH better for ANY 383 than TPI, unless you dont mind making power to only 4400 rpms or so and making soo much torque you cant use it
As far as I know, the HSR does NOT have a provision for EGR. So it is NOT smog legal. If this is an issue where you live, bear it in mind.
LOL i dont have cats, egr, air, or chachol canister on my car now. I can get lick and sticks when needed but the car wont see more than the 5000 for exempt anyway. I did see that however and thanks for brining it up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
yes, the stealth ram comes with plenum and lower manifold. then you order the fuel rail kit with either adjustable fuel pressure regulator or non adjustable regulator.
then order fuel line parts to connect the fuel lines. Now your car is originally a TPI car or is it a TBI? Tht will change a few things
STock TPI throttle body will work. I'd recommend a 52mm one tho for a 383.
HSR with nitrous is MUCH better for ANY 383 than TPI, unless you dont mind making power to only 4400 rpms or so and making soo much torque you cant use it
I think i will go with the 58mm but then can i use my TPS and all that stuff? I would also need the throttle cable kits.
Last edited by bshade; 02-14-2008 at 04:55 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
TPI style throttle body will bolt on to the HSR. Reusing all the stock sensors. It has ports for CTS sensor too and ports in the back for all your vacuum lines and MAT sensor. you can put your TPI throttle cable bracket on the HSR, it has holes drilled/tapped for it.
Its a complete bolt on for TPI thirdgens. other than the fuel lines and no egr/heat crossover passage for egr.
1.The factory plenum is a good unit and can be opened up to flow any amount of air you will need.
2.The Edelbrock TPI intake manifold can also be opened up to flow well over 300 cfm. That should be enough to get the job done. Threads on this subject.
3. The Edelbrock TPI runners is where the problem will come in. I have seen them opened up somewhat but not nearly enough for what you are doing. If they were mine I would siamese them in as far as I could at the top. Then I would find a way to open the runners up to an inside diameter of between 1.75" to 1.80". You can open the Edelbrock Intake manifold runner entrance to 1.80" to match with no problems. I have done it.
What we do here locally in SoCal is to use the SLP runners. Many threads on this for details. Out of the box the 2nd version of the SLP's are not that great. However they can be opened up to flow a good amount of air.
tenpin842, I think your setup should be fine. I myself am running the setup in my sig (see below). I'm running a TPIS base, siamesed SLP runners, a hogged out upper plenum and a 58mm TB. All of this on top of some decent sized heads, cam, 383, and Procharger.
I too am building a 383 and am trying to be stubborn on keeping the TPI on top. While the only thing stock with the TPI I am keeping is the plenum to be ported out, after reading many magazine aritcles, I'm hoping to get at least somewhere between 350 and 400hp at the crank. Scoggin Dickey has their vortec TPI motor rated at 360hp, that's a 350. I've seen magazine aricles where a shop in Pensylavania took at 355 TPI over 400hp. I'm a little nervous as to what I'm gonna get, but it should be good.
Keep thins post alive. My buddy said he might have a steel 400 crank for me. So thats a really good start for me if he wants to sell it cheap enough.
My 385 stroker wants to come alive lol!!
I just purchased a 383 before i heard about this vacuum issue if the cam was too big. So does anyone know how big I can get the cam before it becomes an issue? Ill still be using a TPI unit thats mass ported. Low end torque is not a problem as Im still using the 3.23 gears and would maybe go higher.
I wouldn't think you would have a problem with vacuum as long as the lobe separation was high enough, right?? As far as duration and lift, there are a few other posts that go into quite a bit of detail on 383 TPI cams on the site. I just chose a 224/230 @ 0.050 for my 383 TPI, the lobe separation is 114 deg, which should be friendly to the MAP system and I hear it's a better separation for Blowers, if I choose to do so in the future. I do not have the motor finished yet, so I can't tell you how things will end up for sure. From reading other posts and seeing what different manufactures recommeded, it seemed like something suitable for TPI, but on the higher end of the spectrum. I figured if it did end up being too big of a cam, I could always hack away further at the TPI system or eventually go to an aftermarket LT1 style intake (last resort) if I could not get things dialed to run right.
i would say overlap in the mid high 50's to low 60's is all the higher you want to go with TPI to be somewhat street friendly and have good vacuum with brakes
some go as high as mid 60's low 70's without a problem. That being said my cam has 78 degrees overlap and i hope it runs good
A good tune will help some of that vacuum stuff but once your in the mid high 60's and up on the overlap your into a fairly hot street/strip setup
specifically its 250/258 @.05 with 108 deg separation. Its a killer engine and i would hope not to have to change cam. I just want to be sure theres vacuum before I have it set in and the labor $ hits the celing.
i have yet for this verification to get to me from the builder anyway, this is just the biggest effort cam available for the top end he was using and power he was claiming. whats your opinion on the best streetable cam say 2500+ rpms for TPI?
Last edited by OutriderDriver; 06-02-2008 at 10:50 PM.
I hope its somewhere around that area. But if not ill try to replace it with what I think I can get away with. I really need to find a true experienced tpi whiz...
OutriderDriver, make sure that 108 is actually lobe separation, and not intake centerline. From what I've researched a low degree separation of separation like that is great on high RPM's, but you are really going to have to do some major mods to your intake if you are running N/A in order to get to those RPM's, and yes, unless the rest of the engine and tuning is designed around it (can't say I know what's involved with that though), I would think you would have some vacuum issues. I'm not saying for sure, 'cause I'm still in research mode myself, but after talking with my engine builder and seeing most Cams out there designed for the TPI motors (Comp Cams, TPiS, Lenginfelter, etc.) have a lobe separation of 112 or higher, I'd look into things a little more.
Okay! He has the results:
Adv duration: 281/281
@.05: 225/225
480 lift @1.51
..But all he has is lobe centerline @ 113 doesnt know the separation. any way to tell?
One more question guys, with stock* settings on a 350 tpi is the fuel pressure @ 48psi? and is this decided by a regulator located ON the engine itself? the prom will be change no matter what. I just want to make sure everything is in place. I lucked out that the builder actually thought about my application instead of just sending me a huge cam. Thanks in advance guys! -Brannon
Okay its in the car and running.Theres an exhaust leak and vacuum leak. its easily fixable when I have the time but this thing is weak as hell. Wheres the power?! I wanna "pop" tires @WOT, not that Ive tried this not being broken in yet and all. But this long runner system has got to go! Ill be looking for a super ram in the very near future for sure. Man what a let down! $6500 for something like 50 more HP......damn.
Okay its in the car and running.Theres an exhaust leak and vacuum leak. its easily fixable when I have the time but this thing is weak as hell. Wheres the power?! I wanna "pop" tires @WOT, not that Ive tried this not being broken in yet and all. But this long runner system has got to go! Ill be looking for a super ram in the very near future for sure. Man what a let down! $6500 for something like 50 more HP......damn.
How you tuning it, doing you own chips? I kind of have a hard time thinking a 383 TPI engine wont spin the tires unless your using the stock heads lol
Maybe go over your engine build if you don't mind.
__________________ 89 T-Top GTA 5.7L T-56
ATI Procharger D1sc, AFR 195 Eliminator heads, ZZ9 cam, AS&M SS runners, Accel base, 58mm TB, 60Ibs injectors, Stainless Works LT 1 3/4 headers, Mufflex 4" catback, McLeod Street twin clutch, Moser Ford 9" with 3.70, 18" Boyd Smoothie II wheels 8"/10", DIY prom with code59. Stock short block
Miniram & Monoblade throttle body soon to be added.
TPIS BigMouth atop 200cc/64cc Strike Force heads
225/225 @ .05 (non-roller) .480 lift 11:1 compression stroker 3.75 crank
and im using 27 pounders at 49psi @800rpm idle flowing 95 octane
Headers are 1 5/8 hedmans which are leaking because they suk, getting coppers..
Check your actual wot AFR, it is my experience that a 24# Ford/Bosch injector at 50# fuel pressure runs good at 29.5# ECM injector constant (6E chip). Bet you are drowning in fuel.
very much! 
