I know the TBI guys already have a thread about this, but I feel that the TPI guys have enough extra crap in the way to justify their own thread. Anyone have any ways to clean up wiring/hoses/etc etc? I've done the throttle body bypass which eliminates a hose, and I'm thinking about deleting the heater valve all together. Other than that, my bay is pretty full with random stuff.

You can remove the A/C and the heater if you want, but pretty much the rest is emissions related and has to stay. I dont think its that bad.

Here we go again This guy cracks me up.Lets just say that for all intents and purposes that this thread is just for those of us who do not plan to street drive our cars and trailer them to the track.How then would you clean up the engine bay.I may have to start a whats this wire go to thread for for everyone that does these "procedures"I`ve had a bunch of those questions since I bought my car.Anyway,Make sure you hang onto anything you take off your non street driven car just incase you decide to put it back on the road.

Well, I'm asking about cleanup, I know the AIR has to stay, but who says it has to stay where it is? Maybe replace the pipe with something smaller, I dunno.

Edit:

You can remove the charcoal canister in your engine bay if you install a 98+ F-body fuel tank. It's almost a direct swap, and gets you two more gallons of gas and a cleaner engine bay with most of the fuel-in-tank related electronics on the tank!

Find a non A/C heater box. Cleaned up the passenger side of my motor nicely. Also a bonus when changing plugs.

i did not know that...and to think i went nuts trying to find a gas tank for my 86...

Would you be able to use the fuel pump with tpi? I am converting my car to tpi and have an external mallory FP i was going to put in the engine bay....id rather put it in the tank but im not sure i want to go through that pita again.

Minus AC, A.I.R., Charcoal and headers I think gets you pretty far. Get some wirelooms and valve covers, and then the only thing left to worry about is wiring. I need to clean up my wiring a lot:

I put on headers without the air tubes, took all of the A/C stuff out, put on an A/C delete box, throttle body coolant bypass and that opened it up a good amount.

Ive taken the ac out, headers, air. Its cleaned it up alot, but with the headers its still a bitch to change plugs.

So for the folks who have deleted this stuff do expect to get the same price for the car when it comes time to sell?

Yea, it will only work with TPI, TBI uses WAAAAY lower fuel pressures than us. Get the whole thing, and because you'll already have it out, get the Racetronix 4th gen tank kit. The wiring is almost the *exact* same, like most things on 3rd and 4th gens, so you can hook it up. Walbro pumps are the best, and Racetronix hooks them up with some good kit. I believe the 4th gen tanks also have a "pickup in box" kind of setup so you don't starve fuel in the corners.

You'll also have to cut off the gas neck, and put on the parts store gas neck that usually comes in a 4' length, and you just cut to fit and clamp it on. You might even be able to find a better gas cap opening, like the newer trucks, where it's a better feel to the cap.

From my understanding on the tank swap. The fuel sending signal is different. Has anyone come up with a good clean conversion for that? Then IIRC the LS1 is a returnless system, so how do you go about fixing that? But I would like to get rid of the canister so I can make a nice air-intake.


As for value. I plan on dying in my car, so I dont care what the value is. The ac was broke when I got it, and with a convertible, it never would have been used. I took it out. Airpump was already gone when I got it. I sure aint puttin it back on.

If I was to sell it, I doubt anyone would notice or care about the airpump. I kept the AC stuff and can put it back in.. just needs a compressor and I think 1 line?

Dont plan on getting rid of my cars either but if I do I'll sell it to another TGO member But yeah I got rid of my A/C since it was broken and I dont use it, I used a heater box out of a G20 because it looks better than the f-body one IMO. I also removed my air since MA did away with OBD I emission testing.

On the tank, one of the Grand Prixs used the same scale we use with the 99+ assembly. It's a direct swap, but it's not cheap ($100), and it should be done with the assembly out of the car.

As for the "returnless"

Did some more research on the fuel tank and the returnless.

Basically, to get an adjustable FPR on a 4th gen, you need to run a new fuel line to the tank, connect it to the return line, and remove/gut the FPR in the tank pickup assembly, then install an AFPR on the fuel rails up front.

We already have the return line, and a regular fuel pressure regulator on the front, so gutting/removing the one in the back is all that's required before install.

Oh, and as a reference, the part number for the 0-90 Ohm pickup for the gauge is 25319676. It's $100 from GM Parts Direct, and every GM from 96+ uses the same pickup style, just a few use different resistance values. Word is they are EXTREMELY prone to failure, and that means dropping the tank to fix them. I'd just install a universal (not too sure on how to do that thought) and be done with it. VDO makes a universal sender in our 0-90 ohms.

Not all 4th gens had the in tank fpr.Could you not just get an earlier 4th gen tank?

Earlier 4th gen tanks (93-98) are smaller in capacity (I think) and metal, not plastic. I dunno if the canister is mounted on the top either.

So whats the use of swapping other than a larger capacity and maybe remove the evap canister.From what I`ve heard the plastic tanks are heavier than at least the 3rd gen metal.Dont get me wrong I`d like to have potentialy more fuel capacity but it seems like alot of trouble for a couple extra gallons.Then to have to do this to get an AFPR.

You'll never have to worry about your tank rusting. And the design for where the pump sits is superior for cooling (longer pump life) and fuel starvation (because it always keeps the pump submerged in fuel, you don't die in the corners when you're running low) Other than that I guess it's because you can pick one up with everything from a 4th genner that is going fuel cell for like, $125, and it's not as terribly hard as I make it sound to install. Direct bolt in, gut/remove the FPR in the tank, either use the grand prix sensor or a universal sensor, hook up your lines and wiring and off you go.

It's something I'm gonna do when I swap from my 9 bolt with iron calipers to my 10 bolt with PBR calipers. Might as well while most of that crap is out of the car.

I was consideing doing this when I have to change my fuel pump just starting to sound more involved than its worth.If I have my car long enough for the tank to rust my grandkids will prolly be driving it.From my searches I`ve found the later 3rd gen tanks had the baffles to help with fuel starve,are lighter and it is a direct bolt in.Then you dont have the option of the returnless and removing charcol canister.Glad rust isnt an issue here then I`d for sure get a plastic fourth gen one.I guess its all in whats more important to the owner.

I was consideing doing this when I have to change my fuel pump just starting to sound more involved than its worth.If I have my car long enough for the tank to rust my grandkids will prolly be driving it.From my searches I`ve found the later 3rd gen tanks had the baffles to help with fuel starve,are lighter and it is a direct bolt in.Then you dont have the option of the returnless and removing charcol canister.Glad rust isnt an issue here then I`d for sure get a plastic fourth gen one.I guess its all in whats more important to the owner.

Well, if the later ones had them (I do recall someone calling BS on the swinging pickup and the baffles supposedly in the 1LE tanks), they sure didn't start with '87, because when I'm below half tank and take a hard turn, the car wants to die pretty bad from lack of fuel....

Baffled tanks only came in 1-LE's and B4C's. And yes, if you pull the fuel sending unit out of a 1-LE or a B4C, you can see the baffles. Cars without those options codes came with a non-baffled tank. I have yet to see a "swinging pickup tube" on ANY thirdgen, and I've done MANY fuel pumps on 85-92 TPI cars. The fuel "sock" is pressed or snapped on to the bottom of the fuel pump itself (nothing to move or swing), it's a pretty solid connection.....

Ah. I read that after 89, all cars got the baffled tanks same as the 1LE, and I've never even seen pictures of the tanks from a B4C or a 1LE to prove that there were baffles, but I have seen pictures of the insides of 89+ tanks and definitely had no baffles.

Either way, back to topic! Engine bay cleanup!

Anyone got some simplified routing on the emissions hoses? They're EVERYWHERE. I know the AIR hoses are pretty much stuck, but for the EGR and stuff there has got to be a way to at least make the lines a little smallers.

Let's see....what have I removed:

-AC
-AIR
-Heater valve for awhile, then heat alltogether. Even if you feel you need heat, you can still relocate all the hoses along the frame rail to look cleaner.
-I've moved the charcoal canister UNDER the tray where it sits from the factory.
-Removed cruise control
-removed wiper fluid bottle, and all wiper fluid lines.
-Removed coolant overflow and relocated it with a new smaller tank.
-TB bypass
-rewired, and rerouted a lot of the harnesses.

It makes quite a difference. Everyone has to remember though, I'm not 16 anymore, and don't drive it everyday. "most" of the time, underhood/show appearance is more important to me than creature comforts. Too hot or too cold and I'm not driving it. Rain? -not driving? State Inspection? -you're kidding, right? This is a toy for me. I understand it's not the case for everyone.

Did you just extend the wires and flip it upside down or would that even work.In other words do you have a thread or anything on how you did it. Most creature comforts are gone from mine but I decided to hook my washer bottle back up.Really need it certain times of year with bugs and stuff.Gives it a little more stock look than haveing my msd digital6 mounted on the fender.I moved msd box where charcol canister and cruise controll where(cruise didnt work,may try to fix it later and replace it)Only time I drive it in the rain is if I get surprised by it or my DD is broke down.I would like to clean up the wireing some but that may be outa my league.I have rerouted some heater hoses and tried to make all the wires/hoses atleast run in straight lines.I`ve removed..
Everything a/c related
installed 1LE heater box
Smog pump
TB coolant bypass
charcol canister
everything emissions related
cruise control
Looks much less cluttered and it`s easier to work on.I do get state inspection just to avoid a ticket when I drive it on the highway.I only drive it once or twice a week,maybe.I did however keep everything I took off so I can replace it if I need/want to.

I pretty much just extended everything so it would reach below the tray. -wasn't real hard. I fabbed up some brackets with some aluminum angle stock from home depot. The canister still sits upright.

Sorry, never made a thread.

My biggest worry is the people who say to "remove that smog crap" to someone who doesnt know better. Then that someone gets the notice in the mail he has to go to a smog check.

Yes that would suck and be unfortunate for that person.I dont recall ever telling anyone to remove there stuff,just shared what I`ve done.And actually most of mine was off when I bought the car.I do however have replacements for everything I or someone else removed.Thats why I told everyone to hang on to anything they take off.I dont think I`ll ever sale my car,but you never know.I realize I may not sale it in this area.Rust free cars my be worth more in other areas in the future.Plus,Goodluck finding a "sports car" or truck older than 95 with all or most of its emissions equipment around here.Especialy a chevy.Hell the kids around here dont even run mufflers on there damn 4x4`s.Sounds like s**t.Anyway,I understand what you`re saying and why you`re saying it.I even agree with you in most cases.It just seems almost big brother or dictator like in your approch.Legal or not a good many people who can get away with it will.I know you know that.Let people make there own decisions and suffer ther own consequences.I`ll say this and shut up.Our government and bussiness have polluted our enviroment way more than if I drove my car 24/7.Now they want to tell us how to live.

Gee Shady, sounds like you live here with me... o wait, your just a few hours away

All but the air pump was removed off mine when I got it. Then shortly after I started hearing a grinding sound and it was the pump. So I removed that and it was damaged so much, Id never put it back on a car.

I would like to find all that stuff because I do plan on moving to another state.. and I dont know where. Right now I'm working on trying to hook an egr back up

My egr decision was a uneducated one.Not having the luck of finding this site yet I didnt really no what it did and didnt know how the corvettes were set up.I chose to take the "easier"way.If I had it to do over again,I would prolly keep it for a near stock car deffinatly on a DD.If I go HSR though it really doesnt matter then.Smog pump wasnt hooked up,so I bought a belt and it made a hell of a noise.Took the whole thing off.With no cat on the car it was doing nothing anyway.

Couldn't you just move the evap canister to the back of the car where the LT1 4th gens have it located? I believe it is next to the filler next, behind the rear wheel well panel.

Bumpin an older thread.

So i got the A/C out, delete box and pulley in. All smog/air out, waiting on pulley. How can i make the heater hose not look so cluttered? I'm doing the TB bypass, so can i take the diverter valve thing off the hose and just run it from the heater core to the motor?

Also, the wireing for the a/c and smog, can i just cut them back in the harness and have no ill effects? Thanks

EDIT: look at post #7, he's got the hose how i want to run it. What exactly does the valve thing do anyways?

Id like to know myself

I got most of it done now.

When you turn on Max AC it prevents coolant flow to the heater core, stopping heat soak into your vent system, giving you maximum performance. Cars were built for years without this plastic piece of crap. I wouldn't run one if I didn't get like six from the junkyard the first time it broke. I'm just waiting till I run out. :P

If it breaks i'll just bypass it. Thanks for the info

Hey 89Roc-Z or anyone, could you post a couple pointers on what you did like for instance take this off but cap it with this blah blah blah. Im converting to carb after the season but i want to start taking the emissions and a/c stuff out. Before I do the delete box, what can i do? Don't tell me to just take it all out, im a polish blonde woman, i'll just take it off haha

Any tips would help, here's what im looking at. I know what needs to come off just need a little procedure.



This is a show car/hobby car, please no smog safety school.

Your car is pretty nice looking sadler!

But, I agree with Kevin91Z 300%, you can still use the AIR
without the ugly diverter valve and whatnot.. custom up a
or cut the flange from the ugly duck and bolt it up to the back
of the smog pump! run a hidden hose down to the cat..

Dummy up the headers, or reinstall the OEM for smog inspections.
I just saw the smog school comment, Im sorry, but this trick helped me a ton.

Just take it all off.J/K

Here's what i did.

Took off a/c compressor and install delete pulley, all lines, and the big a/c blower box. With the a/c delete box (i have one for sale if you need it) you have to remount the relay. I cut my mount in half and mounted it right to the box (its in one of my pics). With the wires that used to go to the compressor, i cut them off and taped them, then put electrical tile on it. I think thats all that is associated with the A/C IIRC.

Take off smog pump and install delete pulley, Take off all hoses that go to the cat etc. with the box i cut the wires and did the whole hiding process again. I put my headers on with no air and put a cutout in place of the cat. Everything with air is gone now. Anything else just pm me.

Remember changing/modding anything thats not from factory makes it illegal to drive in all 50 states.

I recently converted one of my projects to TPI from carb, and I pulled the entire harness out and trimmed it down to fit snug. Once finished, you won't see any wiring exposed, as it will all be tucked away, even the spark plug wires, coolant hoses, and vacuum lines. All you'll see is an engine and two turbo's. Once the turbo's get plumbed in, everything gets pulled out, bay gets smoothed, then painted....

Thanks guys!

double lag post of doom!

btw, I miss Newburgh and pretty much the whole county for that matter...
(Poughkeepsie guy!)

Good luck with the clean up!

Well, on my 85 T/A I removed the heater core but I am an old wuss... Something about removing the A/C from a car in az and then sitting on black leather seats when it's 120* outside, just dosent appeal to me.... Maybe it's just me....

One of the many main reasons why I miss NY! teehee.

I used to travel all over NY on business and I always loved the backcountry.

Im with you man ! Ive deleted alot of crap from under my GTA's hood but the AC and heater will never come out. Honestly i dont get why people do it to street cars...all built for the track but driven 90 percent of the time on the road. Funny watching them squirm in 100 degree heat with the windows up because its been poring rain all day.

Mines gone cause I rarely drive the car.Its not my dd.I work outside in the heat all day so usually in the summertyime my car only gets driven at nite.And not in the rain.DD has a/c would never remove it on a dd.