TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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Hi guys, I'm looking to buy my first third gen Camaro. I've mainly been looking for one with a 350 but I found a late 80's with a 400CI TPI. I called the guy and he said he got the car as a trade for a motorcycle so he doesn't really know too much about it. How do the 400's do with TPIs? Obviously I know by now the TPI will limit top end power but I'm not going to be drag racing, just havin a little fun. I haven't gone to look at it yet but I plan to some time this week.
Here's a picture of the engine compartment, incase anyone can help identify the after market TPI parts used.
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I have a 406 ci with all the good stuff.
Runs real well, just looking at the pic the runners are after market,
SO you would think every thing is port matched but you
never know
I have a 406 ci with all the good stuff.
Runs real well, just looking at the pic the runners are after market,
SO you would think every thing is port matched but you
never know
The fact that the runners are after market was the only thing I was able to get from the pictures, but that's only from shopping around for the past 4 months and looking at stock setups. I just wasn't sure if there was anything else that stood out to the TPI pros here.
Like I said, I'm not really going to be doing a whole lot of racing so top end isn't a major issue, just looking for a daily driver with a lot of nut. No way you would ever get me into one of those hybrids! I hear the 400's have decent low and mid range power which is what I'm looking for.
what you will need is a trailer with a gas pump attached to it permanently in your tank.
400+ ci will suck it down like you have a hole in the bottom of your tank.
that aside it is a pretty strong engine and you will have more than enough power to carry the tank around with you.
but all the tree huggers are going to be riding bikes and cooking with sun light and drive a preus - i hope i spelled that wrong - which means only one thing!
i would be concerned if it actually is a 400ci, that may just be talk from his end or the other guys end... run the numbers to see if the blocks core is a 350. from the pictures you can see that the valve covers are not centerbolt, so that means its not a factory block or it has aftermarket heads, either case pull a valve cover, you got tbars so its quick and easy, and u shouldnt need gaskets. (if you buy tbars hopefully you are smart enough to buy rubber gaskets)
get the head numbers..
really depends if its sleeved, 400ci displacement makes your sidewalls really thin so id recommend NEVER letting it overheat. i know its easyly possible now to get over 454ci out of a small block...
as far as the tpi setup... the intake plenum was designed for a 305, and you have a 400ci
you are restricting flow by up to 32%, so if your injectors are matched for your engines displacement vs your tpi, youll be running too rich... the runners will help a bit though. depends if its tuned properly and all that too.
Thanks for the replies guys, currently I drive a Jeep which gets 13 or 14 MPG so I'm not too worried about the gas, I only drive about 7000 miles a year and this would only be for summer driving anyway.
I went and looked at the car this afternoon and it will need paint but I can probably pick it up cheap. It has a 700r4 trans with a 2500 stall converter and 373 gears posi. The guy wouldn't let me drive it on the road, just around the parking lot, but he did take me for a ride down the road. It definitely has nut, rolling at 15mph he left a 30' posi strip, and he was able to break them loose again doing 35 or 40. I know that's not a great way to determine power, but I'm not able to put it on a dyno. Never having owned a Camaro before, would a stock 350TPI be able to do a similar burnout? Just curious as I'd rather have a 350 versus a 400 if they both have the same amount of power.
Besides the paint it needs an altenator, possibly a new starter, the speedometer doesn't work, and it has an exhaust leak. The rear end was also making a noise and the guy said he's pretty sure its the ring gear. He said the odometer wasn't original but he's pretty sure it has less than 100k on it, not that you would be able to tell with those 5 digit odometers anyway.
What price would you guys be willing to pay for a vehicle like this? I know the prices of stock Camaro's fairly well as I've been looking at them for the past 4 months, but as far as something like this goes I'm not too sure. Feel free to PM me if you want.
if its a 9 bolt rearend noise is a sign of wear on them. with a 350 you should be able to break em loose with the car rolling being a auto you can use the brake to help you, he might have done that. stock 350s cant break em loose higher up in speed unless its a corner or wet out. sounds like it has alot more power then stock 350. my 305 roasts the tires no problem and loves donuts. i would assume 200k would be more accurate if it needs paint. run the vin number to see if its a stock carbed model or look on the underside of the hood itll show a diagram u should be able to figure out if its stock carbed. only saying that cuz the harness could be hacked causing problems done the road. i couldnt tell you what its worth since prices in BC are alot different then there. but if a 9/10 camaro was 5k id put this one around the 2-3k mark
IMHO the plenum is not the weak spot in a factory TPI system. It easily can be opened up for plenty of air flow. It is the runners and the intake manifold itself where the restrictions are because in the case of the runners there is not much that can be done. With the intake manifold you can open it up some but not all that much.
So you need aftermarket runners which the poster has and an aftermarket intake manifold which he may have. These can be opened up for good airflow.
"intake plenum" is the intake manifold, runners and top plenum, its the entire thing as far as i know, not just the top piece. but yes the weaker part is deffenitly the runners and base manifold, as thats were the real restriction begins
rom the pictures you can see that the valve covers are not centerbolt, so that means its not a factory block or it has aftermarket heads, either case pull a valve cover, you got tbars so its quick and easy, and u shouldnt need gaskets. (if you buy tbars hopefully you are smart enough to buy rubber gaskets)
get the head numbers..
First few years of TPI on Vettes, were perimeter bolt valve covers, so it could just mean, thats an early TPI setup, which would make sense on a 400.
Or it has perimeter valve cover adapters, on center bolt heads.
First few years of TPI on Vettes, were perimeter bolt valve covers, so it could just mean, thats an early TPI setup, which would make sense on a 400.
Or it has perimeter valve cover adapters, on center bolt heads.
That's not correct. 85 (first year for TPI) and early 86 had cast iron center bolt heads. Late 86 and 87 they got aluminum centerbolt heads (casting 128). 88 and up got the revised 113 aluminum centerbolt heads.
I doubt it has adapters as well. It looks like the TPI is on top of an older engine. The alternator is on the left side and it looks to be be a V belt setup. So perimeter style valve cover heads would make sense if it was a 400.
That's not correct. 85 (first year for TPI) and early 86 had cast iron center bolt heads. Late 86 and 87 they got aluminum centerbolt heads (casting 128). 88 and up got the revised 113 aluminum centerbolt heads.
I doubt it has adapters as well. It looks like the TPI is on top of an older engine. The alternator is on the left side and it looks to be be a V belt setup. So perimeter style valve cover heads would make sense if it was a 400.
Yes...85 & 86 got TPI...with perimeter bolt valve covers. The 85/86 did NOT have center bolt heads, as they didn't exist yet. Center bolt heads did not come out until 87.
"There are also minor differences on the intakes as far as the mounting to the cylinder heads. The 1985 and 1986 intakes will fit on 1986 and earlier heads. Starting in 1987 the angle of the two center bolts on each side was changed and these intakes will fit 1987 and later heads, unless you want to drill the angle steeper to fit."
What's this pic show, on an original engine?
Perimeter bolt valve cover heads, under a TPI.
I've got both the 128 and 113 castings in my garage and they are definitely centerbolt.
Had an 86 vette and it was most definitely had centerbolt valve covers.
I am NOT incorrect. I know the history of these & your thread makes no mention of valve cover style. Yes, it mentions casting #s, but I'm not going to spend the time researching each casting # (the last 3 digits don't go very far in searches) on information I already know.
Whether it was 85-only, or 85/86, I don't care. Early Vettes came with perimeter valve cover heads. Period.
"Keep in mind that you need an intake that will bolt to your cylinder heads. The bolt pattern changed in 87, so if you have 86 or earlier heads, you need an 85 or 86 manifold base. The four center bolt holes are angled differently on the 87-92 intakes. A stock TPI intake with not work with Vortec, or LT1 heads. However, you can run TPI on Vortec heads if you use an aftermarket intake manifold from Scoggin Dickey. "
I am NOT incorrect. I know the history of these & your thread makes no mention of valve cover style. Yes, it mentions casting #s, but I'm not going to spend the time researching each casting # (the last 3 digits don't go very far in searches) on information I already know.
Whether it was 85-only, or 85/86, I don't care. Early Vettes came with perimeter valve cover heads. Period.
So now your story changes from 87 to only 85 or 85/86 having perimeter style
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
Center bolt heads did not come out until 87.
.
Like I said above I had an 86 that had centerbolt valve covers.
Yes the thread mentions casting number's and here's the pics from castings in my garage where you can read the whole number.
Starting in 86 there were Corvettes with centerbolt heads, they are the aluminum heads. The earlier cast iron heads (also used in 86) were perimeter bolt. On a Corvette, has exactly nothing to do with the angle of the center 4 bolts on the intake manifold, because every single one of them had the 'early' style angle on the bolts. It was the 'later' iron heads that had a different bolt angle, only used on the F-body with centerbolt heads. And neither of those have a single thing to do with the block under it, the blocks dont care what heads are bolted to it.
That plenum and throttle body in the first picture is an 88 or earlier. The car is obviously some sort of mix+match but when you say "late" 80's what year? I suspect that car is 87 or older looking at other items under the hood.
So now your story changes from 87 to only 85 or 85/86 having perimeter style .
Like I said above I had an 86 that had centerbolt valve covers.
Yes the thread mentions casting number's and here's the pics from castings in my garage where you can read the whole number
My "story" never changed...I said early Vettes...85-only/85/86-Vettes...WHATEVER.
Point is...EARLY VETTES HAD PERIMETER VALVE COVER HEADS.
Just because you have an 86 with center bolt heads, does not mean it was built that way on day 1. Or that it wasn't modified later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
Starting in 86 there were Corvettes with centerbolt heads, they are the aluminum heads. The earlier cast iron heads (also used in 86) were perimeter bolt. On a Corvette, has exactly nothing to do with the angle of the center 4 bolts on the intake manifold, because every single one of them had the 'early' style angle on the bolts. It was the 'later' iron heads that had a different bolt angle, only used on the F-body with centerbolt heads. And neither of those have a single thing to do with the block under it, the blocks dont care what heads are bolted to it.
That plenum and throttle body in the first picture is an 88 or earlier. The car is obviously some sort of mix+match but when you say "late" 80's what year? I suspect that car is 87 or older looking at other items under the hood.
And now I have back-up, that early Vettes had perimeter valve covers.....
That plenum and throttle body in the first picture is an 88 or earlier. The car is obviously some sort of mix+match but when you say "late" 80's what year? I suspect that car is 87 or older looking at other items under the hood.
Sorry, I lied in my first post, its not really late 80's, mid 80's would have been a better statement. It's an 86.
Could be a 305 too, in fact I'd be more inclined to believe that over anything. Lots of people have 400's and "Corvette" motors in their Camaros and Firebirds. Anyone see the dipstick tube? I dont see it.
And that would explain perimeter bolt valve covers under a TPI. And could very well be a 400.
Sorry for Jason89RSs confusion, over the valve covers & TPI.
I don't need you to apologize for me ! I already admitted that I incorrectly posted that the cast iron vette heads from 85 to 86 were center bolt not perimeter. Why don't you take responsibility for your misinformation now!
I don't need you to apologize for me ! I already admitted that I incorrectly posted that the cast iron vette heads from 85 to 86 were center bolt not perimeter. Why don't you take responsibility for your misinformation now!
My story never changed, nor did I misidentify anything anywhere.
I'm done. Proven my point. Took you long enough to see your mistake, despite being so adamant that you were right.
I'm done too and proven my point. FWIW I admitted I was wrong about 8 posts up...quite awhile ago.
You missed me admitting, I missed yours(except that you admitted it to somebody else, not the person who actually said you were wrong).....WHO REALLY CARES???????
Bottom line is. The OP has the correct information now. That is what counts.
Let me give another viewpoint to back up verifying the engine block numbers.
I put a 400 SB in my 88 GTA back in 2000. Since I was poor...I used an Edelbrock base to mount my stock TPI to my stock late 70's 400 heads/block. It looked stock, unless someone saw the "Edelbrock" cast into the base. Now we can't see that from the pics.
I am having a tough time seeing someone put aftermarket runners onto ANY stock base...but who knows.
Also...there are a lot of misinformed people selling cars (idiots). I have seen a stock TPI setup labeled as TBI, LT1 and even LS1.
Bottom line: Check it out in person, write down the casting numbers and look them up. The info is easy to find on the web.
Good luck...
__________________ Adam
-on hiatus- 88 GTA- 406/700R4, HSR, Pro 220cc alum heads-Griffin- Victor Jr. WP
-91 RS/Z28 - 350 TPI, T-5, 3.73 posi, DFI to 730 swap, SLP CAI/Full Exh, etc
I have a 400/TPI set up in my 81 Stepside 4x4. The motor was rebuilt to stock specs(nothing hi-po) and the TPI was installed using a Painless wiring harness and all new GM sensors. As far as power is will spin the 35" tires no problem on a good day(I'm still working on some intermittent code 33 Issues).
My concern with this set up was that everyone tells me to run the 400 on the cool side (mine runs at 185 degrees) and my only other TPI vehicle (86 Vette) liked to run on the hot side(225-230) Time will tell how this set up will work once completely sorted out.
I just found this site and will be searching past post on how to solve the code 33 issues..
I have an 86 that I bought with a 305 TPI. It got 18 mpg at 65. Changed to a 400, TPI keeping the stock 305 chip, but with a 2200 stahl converter. Went up to 20 mpg. Went to custom chip, still 20 mpg. Changed to a 1900 stahl, now getting 24 mpg at 80 mph. I built the motor for all torque with no regard for horsepower. I use 4500 rpm as a max. It is daily driver, I take it everywhere (Detroit, Minneapolis, etc). It pulls hard from 2000 rpm up past 4000. If you want a fun car, 400 TPI is a great way to go.
Also...there are a lot of misinformed people selling cars (idiots). I have seen a stock TPI setup labeled as TBI, LT1 and even LS1.
I just bought an 87 Z-28 with a "350 Corvette engine" according to the guy that sold it. I knew right off the start he was BSing me but the car has a straight body and minimal rust... easily worth the $600 I paid.
! I already admitted that I incorrectly posted that the cast iron vette heads from 85 to 86 were center bolt not perimeter. Why don't you take responsibility for your misinformation now! 
