i got the car and brought it home, it was hard to start but not impossible, so i tried doing some routine maintenance like checking spark plugs wires oil/filter, fuel filter etc.so i was checking the fuel line and noticed it was twisted completely around so i thought this must be it, so i got the fuel line problem fixed and it wouldn't even try to start after, the engine turns over but it doesn't try to fire. it smelled like gas fairly bad so i looked into it and someone said if a couple of injectors were broken it would send more fuel out of the other injectors so i replaced them and the strong gas smelled stopped so i thought it was going to be good but still, NOTHINGl. ive tried getting the trouble codes and the only one it can give me is that the car isnt on because i cant start it. my timing should be good, ive been doing stuff by the haynes manual but im not having any luck, on a side note: will taking most of the emessions system out effect anything other than annoying false engine lights.

welcome to the board.

first thing you need to do is see if there is spark, you can do this by taking the plug wire 1 d side front and put a spark plug in it, place it on a metal part of the eng (away from gas) and crank the car. if there is no spark then i will tell you what to do next.

if there is spark your going to want to check your firing order of your wires 18436572 V8 order

yea i checked the spark first and the orders good still

another thing that some of my injectors are doing are rattling and sounding like a short although it was doing that while it still actually ran

Hm, this is a tricky one, you said you checked the spark, and the order is still good, but did you check to see if the spark plugs are actually giving spark?

I'm 99.7% sure this is a problem in the ignition area. If you're getting good fuel pressure, and the engine is turning over, yet not even coming close to starting, it's basically going to be an ignition problem. Possibly since it's an older car, you should pick up some new spark plugs, maybe wires also.

Makes me wish I could dump $4,500 into the FAST EFI fuel injection kit for SBC's, I'll have a new distributor that I'm most likely going to be needing!

A couple days ago, I posted on a thread saying how good my Accel ignition has worked, now my IROC will barely fire. Eh, it has been cold though, I let it sit for over a month, probably have to charge my battery also.

yea i dont get it theres spark, new wires, new spark plugs, new injectors, lots of fuel

i am considering swapping the tpi to a carb because theres so much less to go wrong and theres no stupid censors to make me broke although i assume it will be a pretty penny to finish that change so its a maybe

NO no no no, noooooo. Do not convert the engine to a carb, you will HATE it. Unless you have an ample amount of cash to go playing around on a dyno, and re-jetting the carb numerous times to run just perfect at your elevation, it will run horribly.

I'm not telling you this because I have some grudge on carburetors, I live with the horrible throttle response problems, I live with absolutely 0 decent drivability once I leave my area, since my town is at a whole 54 or so FT. elevation, I'm right near the ocean.

Try using a couple sprays of starting fluid, then if that fails, everyone has the typical mechanic friend, or friend that's smarter when it comes to engines. Have someone look at it.

I can tell you from personal experience though, get the word carb out of your head, pretend that they do not exist. It's for your own good.

haha k

i was just curious cause my dad was saying how awesome his was he had a 72 formula 400 fire bird

You should say this is in your matter of opinion because if the guy wants to go to carb he can do it. IMO. I hate TPI IMO. The carb is much simplier as I been around them my whole life. So if he wants to change to that let the guy do it. One thing to check is your neutral safety switch that might have gone bad. But one thing is first are you or are you not getting spark? that could be another location to look at.

I honestly do not care what he does, but I would not like to see a fellow TGO member go down a route that will lead to bad driveability, and cost him extra cash for nothing.

Auto makers evolved from the simple carburetor to fuel injection, for a reason. Efficiency, better driveability, increased power, efficiency, did I mention efficiency?

I don't want to turn this into a little Carb VS EFI fight.

Here's a nice little link for the O.P.

http://dtcc.cz28.com/history/vs.htm - Nice to read before considering some ridiculous conversion that will barely run in the winter, I know, I deal with it.

No fight but You say efficiency. Well imo we all have these cars not for the efficiency. I don't call getting an extra 3 to 5mpg effiency. Compared to what carb gets. IMO just more extra junk on the vehicle to go wrong. But in his case in canada probably yes to cold to drive in the winter for it. But not alot of people drives these cars in the winter anyways. As he says in this linkhttp://dtcc.cz28.com/history/vs.htm a little biased. :P. I am neutral on the case by case. For a new car yes for muscle again depends on what you want. Good point thanks for pointing the factors of this out Shadow. there is alot against carb's but i see falls in efi. I see carbs cost efficient which will in turn go into for more gas :P. But enough said Just wanted to make sure he has his options. and welcome to TGO bud.

pull some of the spark plugs and look them over to make sure they aren't fouled pretty badly (if you've had too much gas for awhile they could be in pretty bad shape). Change them if they are gummed up with crud.

If they are gummed up I'd also check the compression on a couple of cylinders to make sure the rich conditions hasn't ruined the rings - it doesn't take long. My oldest son ruined his 400 SB in his 74 Camaro in just 3 days of driving it back and forth to work (about 15 miles each way). After 3 days of the choke being stuck almost closed it was blowing the dipstick out of the tube and fouling out some of the spark plugs every day or two. It started and ran, but changing a few plugs twice a week is a pain.

If it was running rich and you smelled gas then you know the fuel pump is working (those are a real pain to change, did mine last year).

WD40 works as a starting fluid, too.

The codes on the computer are checked with the engine NOT running and the ignition switch turned on. It should have codes in it if it was running badly prior to you buying it. They don't go away based on time but based on how many times you started it since the code was set, right? (for you guys more experiences with reading codes).

As for carbs. vs. TPI? I really like my TPI 86 IROC Z. Runs good, starts good, gets great gas mileage even the way I drive.

On the other hand we pulled the TBI 305 out of my son's 91 RS and replaced it with a 331 SB. We put an Edelbrock 650 electric choke carb on it. No starting issues, 19 mpg around town and 25 on the highway (the way a 21 year old kid drives). We did put an aftermarket O2 sensor/gauge in it so we could set up the carb.

My 86 IROC has 186,000 miles on it now with no serious engine/sensor issues over the years so I don't have much experience working on that stuff. All I've ever replaced is the gauge temp. sending unit, the temp gauge itself, the tachometer and the oil pressure sending unit. Other than that the factory stuff is all still there.

When you're cranking yours over don't stay on the key switch too long without a break to let the starter cool down some as you don't want to be replacing a starter, too.

Oh yeah, changing over to a carb would also require a fuel pressure regulator and some "piping" to drop the fuel system pressure down to what the carb can handle. The TPI puts out what, 40 to 45 psi or there abouts, while the carb needs about 3 to 5 psi?

You'll probably also want to add a switch to cut off the fuel pump unless you have oil pressure and you'll need some way to bypass the fuel pump relay (it's been a few years so I don't remember all the stuff we did to my son's RS to make it run on the carb. vs. the TBI setup) so the fuel pump will come on long enough to pressurize the system before the engine starts and gives you oil pressure. His was a special case due to the VATS system and other issues.

Good luck with your troubleshooting. I think mine is the best car I've ever owned.

does anyone know anything about the 9th injector cause i saw a small blurb in an article about removing the cold start injector and putting a plug bolt on the end of the fuel rail

it didnt say much except it would start better but if i did that would i have to get into the computer

You can take delete the Cold start injector (9th injector) but you would have to go to a DYNO shop and have them delete it off of you PROM (computer). I dont believe that your Camaro would start better, atleast in cold weather. Its function is to add more fuel into the combustion chamber at start up. Its basically a "primer" if you would call it that.

If you take out the TPI system and drop in a carb, you might aswell take off the IROC-Z emblem from the dash board, rip off your Z-28 rear bumper emblem, tear off the Z-28 emblems next to you front wheel mud flaps area, remove the IROC-Z style hood, take off your fog lights, switch your IROC rims to Berlinetta rims, and get a berlinetta front grill, and take off your striped rear lights and put in the single black line lights and finally, remove all the lower ground effects kit. Y mess up the reputation of the 1986 IROC-Z, 305, TPI, MPFI, Z-28. Its a work of art. Think about it, International Racing of Championships, Z-28 model at that. Call me a hater. I dont care. One thing that gets under my skin is seeing a Firebird with 16" IROC wheels.

lol well i really dont want to but ive tried so much to get it running

if i can get help getting it started i wouldnt but it just seems so much easier to work with and less to go wrong my dad had a 72 firebird 400 formula which had a carb obviously and it rann great all year round being +30 or -30 or in any elevation and its just costing me so much to replace all the damn sensors and fiddle with it get code readers and such and the injectors cost $900.00 i could have had a carb.

I know how you feel. I cant get my 86 IROC-Z to run right either. I rebuilt my engine (LB9-350) yup, I switched out the 305 for a 350. It starts nice, Idles good without a miss. But once you begin to open up the throttle, I tbegins to sputter and backfire and eventually it dies. Just recently I thought I burned out the fuel pump because without my knowlegde, my uncle was stealing my gas. Ends up that I might have a faulty wire that powers the MAF Power relay, MAF burn off relay, and the Fuel pump Relay. WHAT A HEADACHE. But for what its worth, Im going to get my IROC on the road no matter what it costs.

Anyway, turn the key to on position. You should hear the Realyas click and you should also hear the fuel pump prime for about 2-5 seconds. Do not turn on Camaro! head over to the fuel rail, on the passenger side, is the pressure nozzle thing (looks like the plug to air up the tires). push on it with something pointy. The fuel should spray out, not trickle or pour out. If It does not spray out, then your fuel system doesnt have enough pressure to spray fuel from the injectors. Let us know what your results are from the pressure test. Good Luck.

When the engine ran did it give you a trouble light?
Code 42 is the code for the EST (I think est is the name) it is located under the distributor cap, fastened to the distributor base plate. I have not had a lot of trouble with these but have replaced two. On the Monte Carlo it just went stone dead and would not fire at all. On the 88 IROC, it started acting funny..could smell gas...but it ran ok for a few months. Then started throwing code 42. I replaced it Sunday and knew it was better as soon as I started the car.

I don't know how to test one to verify operation without replacement. Maybe someone here does, in this group at least one person knows the answer to any given problem.

As to cost, it is all about fuel and spark. With fuel and spark it will run, may run bad but it will start. As mentioned above, check for fuel spray, check for blue spark, the injector clicking is normal and you can get injectors for less that $900.00. All of the injectors are not bad, if you have fuel pressure and spark it will run with a bad injector or two.

I beat myself to death trying to get the 89 to run. Dude said it was running great before the transmision failed. I replaced the transmission, found the distributor loose after two weekends of Sherloking under the hood, distributor cap was not fastened, number 2 and 4 wires were crossed, TPS was oout of cal. Fixed all of that and it still did not run well. It turned out to be the ECM....last resort unless you are positive as they rarely fail.

Hang in there dude, let these guys help you.
When it starts just be sure you have someone to high five and share a beer with.

Dude, you must hate "racing seats", I know I do.

thanks net coma