ad duration 276/282 duration at .50 224/230 lift 502/510 110lsa is this cam to big for a tpi? and with 083 heads tpis springs and roller rockers in a 350 bored 0.020 over with shorty headers 2.5 duels with super 44 flomasters and reprogram prom, any idea on how much hp it would produce?

With a stock TPI intake im going to say yea its got a little bit too much duration. Which isnt hard to imagin seeing as how stock TPI intake on a 350 dies out at 4500 or so. If you were going to upgrade the intake with large runners and an aftermarket base or something like that I think it would match a bit better. However that wasn't the question. As is, I think you want to cut the duration back a step to say the next smaller cam at the most.

Ok, thanks for the imput. i think i may just go with replacing the tpi base and runners with the stelth ram. that seems to be what everyone is saying to do

If you go to a stealth ram that cam would be a good match for that intake anyways. Personally i have mixed feelings on the stealth ram. Although it will produce higher hp, the sacrifice is a fair amount low end tq. Keep in mind this loss of tq is multiplied by the gearing in the trans and rear diff. A good long tube runner set up generally is only out performed by the stealth ram somewhere in between 4-5k and above band. For a street car that spends 99% of its time in the low RPMs and on factory motors whos max RPM is 5.5K its a lot of sacrifice with virtually no gain except for the idea that your producing more HP and that occasional blast down the drag strip. Where as on the other hand the long tube runner set up will perform better the other 99% of the time and even though the 1/4 miles wont be as good by a few 10ths it will feel faster due to the harder acceleration. For a real drag racing car whose primary purpose is the 1/4 thats a little different story because there the big number rule but as far as having a fun car low end torque is where its at.

083 heads will not accept that much lift without machine work.
Besides that, you could use that camshaft with a TPI system if you get extensive hands-on tuning.
If you run it with an automatic transmission, you will need a very good torque converter with a fair amount of stall speed.

with the last post.....

and I have to agree that a good LTR setup should be better around town than a HSR.
Torque = Power
Don't get me wrong.... I love blastin the HSR from 4000 to 6500 RPM and I gained over 130 Hp with a Intake, Cam & Head swap on a crappy computer tune (which I'm workin on...) but honestly, how often are you spinning your engine that high? I don't get the chance often.....

thats one of the main reasons why i didnt get an hsr intake with this build... my car is a daily driver and these cars are heavy.. my car is 3640 pounds heavy... the tpi's insane torque moves my car like its a 2400 pound car.... i dont spin past 3700 often so the LTR setups is the perfect choice for me.....

The TPI makes great power where you will most likely use it..... when driving repsectively

this is some good info...... so i think from reading this i'll keep the tpi and upgrade the runners becuse most of my driving will be on the street (weekend hotrod) but any suggestions on a cam that will work with the 083 heads with the most hp numbers? one guy said the next cam "size" down would work well ? what do ya think?

Couldnt agree more! Stick with the tpi get runner and base, port the plenum and your good to go!

what did you mean by 083 wont accept that much lift? what kind of machine work?
porting? cause i have springs and roller rockers that will hold up to.600
and i plan to port the heads.

Probably means the valve spring retainers or the valve locks (keepers) will contact the valve guides at or approaching max lift, unless the guides are trimmed to provide additional clearance.

Bill

oh ok. well i may go with a cam with a little less duration like rollin thunder suggested. i found one on summit that is more in the rpm range of the tpi and is just a little smaller cam.
ad duration 264/269
duration at .50 212/218
lift 488/495 lsa 112
rpm range 1200-5200

i went with a 480 480 lift magnum cam from comp cams. it will work just fine i belive

i went with a gm hot cam on my 083 heads.... im using 1.5 rockers so the lift is 492 492... i have done head work to accept the lift.... my car still has plenty of torque with this cam.... im happy with my build..

so do you think i should be alright using the cam i listed at the top of the thread if i use 1.5 rockers?

no... at that lift you need screw in studs and better spings and retianers....

OH...... i'm sorry i forgot to mention i have 1.6 roller rockers, new springs, seats and retianers from tpis that can handle .600 lift. I dont have the studs though.

you dont need the studs but with lifts around 470 and higher the press in studs will sometimes pull out at higher rpms.... its just for peace of mind to get screw in studs... but yeah you can run that cam with your head mods..

Personally that cam I think is a better choice especially if you upgrade the intake. I think you would be much happier with that one than the larger one selected earlier.

Ok, well i thank you guys for all the good info. and i think i will go with the smaller cam.

For a street driven TPI, this cam is one of the best out there in my opinion.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C30

The stock 083 heads cannot physically accept that much lift without machine work. The retainer would smash through the valve seal.

The stock retainer-to-seal clearance with all stock parts is:
intake = 0.452" (with 0.150" seal)
exhaust = 0.481" (with 0.120" seal)

If you get rid of the stock retainers, metal oil shields, and rotators, and you are still using stock diameter springs, you can swap to stock Chevy 4.3 liter retainers. Then your retainer to guide clearance increases to:

intake - 0.546" (with 0.150" seal)
exhaust - 0.550" (with 0.150" seal)

So, you could get your lift without machining, however you may still run into trouble with stock studs pulling out of the heads due to increased spring pressure.

Generally people have stock heads machined for screw-in studs & guide-plates, and they have the guide tops and bosses machined down for more valve lift, and to accept 0.500" (actually 0.530") positive type of valve seals. Then they swap to non aligning rocker arms, - usually rollers with posi-locks. Some people also get the spring pads machined larger to accept larger diameter springs. It is common to resurface the heads while they are off, and also a refresh on the valve job. Most of the time used heads will need new guide inserts or sleeves.

People often take the opportunity to port their heads before this machine work begins. Even just "decent" porting can add 20 HP.

Some people who don't want to port, or to spend so much money machining stock heads decide to upgrade to aftermarket heads that already flow well, don't need machining, and come with bigger springs.

I don't mind working with stock heads, but then I do most of the machine work myself.

Here's a link to some info on the 8mm valve swap that I prefer over re-using the stock valves.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...rings-l98.html (LS1 Valves and Springs on L98 Heads)

this may be a retarted question. but what are rotators?

dude go with the highflow tpi... my hot cam ported highflow tpi and unported 083 heads can do 0 60 in 5 seconds and still pulls strong to about 95mph... i have a probuilt 700r4 and when i shift from 1st to 2nd my speedo instantly goes from 20 to 35 mph under full acceleration..... tpi is super strong and i think is the best daily driver street intake...

The stock retainers for the exhaust valves are larger and contain an internal bearing that promotes more rotation. They are heavy and not actually needed.
No performance aftermarket heads I know of come with rotators.

The newer (late 1990's & up) 4.3 liter V6 Chevy retainers are much lighter in weight and do not use retainers.

Stock 083:
intake retainer + oil shield = 32 grams
exhaust rotator + oil shield = 47 grams

Stock 4.3 V6:
intake retainer (no shield) = 15 grams

If you are going to be using single springs that are the same diameter as your stock springs, then the V6 retainers are a good option.

To clarify about the guide seals, the positive seals require an interference fit. If the guide top has an O.D. of 0.530" then you use the 0.500" I.D. seal.
If the guide is machined to 0.500" O.D. then you use a seal with between 0.470" and 0.480" inner diameter.

ok so i need to find out if the springs i got from tpis are the same diameter as the stock.

Is this the cam your speaking about? http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=188&sb=2

I have this cam in my L98 along with AFR 195 heads and a Stealth Ram intake. I drove the car all last summer with this setup, along with my stock stall and 2.77 gears. Believe it or not, the car still had plenty of torque and had no problems roasting the tires.

I honestly didn't feel a huge difference in the low end torque compared to the TPI. And now the car will pull strong all the way through the rpms. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with a HSR.

yeah, thats the first one i listed.

You can get that cam on a 112lsa. And it will make even more torque but the 083 heads can't flow enough air to support that cam which means you will be overcamming the engine. In short all of you in this post don't have good combinations. Your engines may not make over 300 hp to the wheels.

If you don't live in California and you're not worrying about smog, go with aftermarket heads and the HSR. You will burn the tires at low rpms and have power at hi rpms. Don't be fooled by the LTR set up for the street. Look at my sig. I can smoke the tires in first, second and a little in third gear. I can still burn the tires with half throttle in second gear. Sounds to me I have plenty of torque in the mid range rpm for the street. What do ya'll think now?

As far as what I think, I think you should do a little research on the topic before you tell everyone else their wrong. Hopefully something beyond doing burn outs with your stealth ram. No ones saying that the stealth ram with have 0 ftlbs of torque till 2500 but comparable builds the trend is the stealth ram out performs only in the higher end. This is backed up by countless dyno sheet result. For example one on this site you can see for yourself. This was a tuned port shoot out and these were the results. The key part is posted below.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...b-super-3.html (TPI shootout in Feb Super Rod magazine)

RPM -- TPI -- TPiS - ASM -- ASR -- HSP -- HSR - MR
2600 - 200 -- 207 -- 198 -- 188 -- 190 -- 190 -- 186
2800 - 222 -- 235 -- 221 -- 205 -- 206 -- 206 -- 202
3000 - 260 -- 271 -- 262 -- 240 -- 230 -- 237 -- 215
3200 - 290 -- 308 -- 290 -- 278 -- 258 -- 270 -- 258
3400 - 316 -- 332 -- 319 -- 314 -- 286 -- 297 -- 282
3600 - 338 -- 355 -- 340 -- 337 -- 307 -- 320 -- 308
3800 - 360 -- 381 -- 360 -- 359 -- 332 -- 340 -- 328
4000 - 379 -- 410 -- 383 -- 382 -- 357 -- 363 -- 348
4200 - 390 -- 420 -- 408 -- 405 -- 377 -- 387 -- 370
4400 - 400 -- 438 -- 422 -- 421 -- 398 -- 411 -- 388
4600 - 406 -- 441 -- 440 -- 430 -- 418 -- 431 -- 409
4800 - 410 -- 448 -- 450 -- 443 -- 440 -- 449 -- 425
5000 - 409 -- 453 -- 457 -- 453 -- 456 -- 460 -- 449
5200 - 410 -- 447 -- 463 -- 470 -- 465 -- 475 -- 468
5400 - 407 -- 445 -- 460 -- 474 -- 475 -- 485 -- 475
5600 - 409 -- 448 -- 452 -- 480 -- 488 -- 497 -- 485
5800 - 407 -- 450 -- 450 -- 474 -- 493 -- 499 -- 500
6000 - 406 -- 450 -- 449 -- 453 -- 490 -- 501 -- 501
6200 - 404 -- 448 -- 448 -- 452 -- 486 -- 495 -- 504

TPI - Stock TPI, unported plenum, 47mm t/b
TPIS – Stock Extrude Honed base, TPiS LTR, ported plenum, 52mm (similar curve to TPiS base)
ASM - BigMouth base, AZ S&M Semi-Siamessed Tubes, ported plenum, 52mm
ASR – BigMouth base, Accel SuperRam Upper, Accel 1000cfm (edit)
HSP - Holley Single Plane MPFI, 1000cfm 4bbl T/B
HSR - Holley StealthRam, 58mm (edit)
MR - TPiS MiniRam, 52mm

Best numbers generated by system (variance of 3hp) from to rpm listed.
TPiS System (207 – 441hp) from 2600 – 4600 rpm
ASM System (440 – 457hp) from 4600 – 5000 rpm
HSR System (460 -501 hp) from 5000 – 6000 rpm
MR System (500 – 504hp) from 5800 – 6400 rpm

As you can clearly see the holley stealth ram only out performed the TPIS long tube runner in the high RPM. To be exact they were about equal at 4800 RPMs. Below 4800 RPMs the long tube runner outperformed the stealthram by as much as about 50 HP! (see 4k RPMs) I dont see how you could possibly argue your point here that the stealth ram offers a better bottom end. Its not like the stealtram is not streetable its that what scene does it make to build hp in the high RPM for a street car that spends most of its time in the low RPM? Now that ive actually presented some hard facts Ide love to see some evidence of comparably built motors where the stealth ram outperforms a long tube runner set up in the low end. Now I ask you what do you think now?

However surprise surprise as if that wasn't enough proof heres yet another TPI shoot out where a long tube runner manifold again destroys a stealth ram in the low end. You can read through it the links included but highlighting a few key points here the long tube runner produces a max torque of 486 foot pounds of torque at 4k RPMs. The stealth ram maxed out at 460 foot lbs of torque almost 1k RPMs later. Also here again the hp output of the TPI vs stealth ram were equal at 4.7k. In the low end again the TPI produced upwards of 40 hp over the stealth ram at certain RPMs. Again supporting the fact in the low end long tube runners rule. Again in case people dont want to read the article this is the bottom line.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...ine/index.html

Holley Stealth Ram
TPI Manifold RPM TQ HP
RPM TQ HP 2,900 430.6 238.9
2,900 457 252.4 3,000 430.6 246
3,000 458.4 261.8 3,100 430.1 253.9
3,100 464.4 274.1 3,200 429.6 261.7
3,200 472.1 287.7 3,300 427.3 268.5
3,300 475.8 299 3,400 424.4 274.7
3,400 474.6 307.2 3,500 419.7 279.7
3,500 472 314.5 3,600 415.8 285
3,600 468.2 320.9 3,700 415 292.4
3,700 470 331.3 3,800 420.6 304.3
3,800 478.2 346 3,900 429.1 318.6
3,900 483.9 359.3 4,000 433.2 329.9
4,000 486.6 370.6 4,100 440.5 343.9
4,100 483.1 377.1 4,200 445.3 356.1
4,200 479.5 383.5 4,300 445.8 365
4,300 474.4 393 4,400 447 374.5
4,400 469.2 393.1 4,500 449.7 385.3
4,500 462.2 396 4,600 452.4 396.3
4,600 457.4 400.6 4,700 455.3 407.5
4,700 454.6 406.8 4,800 458.2 418.8
4,800 449.5 410.8 4,900 460.1 429.2
4,900 444.1 414.4 5,000 459.9 437.8
5,000 437.2 416.3 5,100 459.4 446.1
5,100 427.4 415 5,200 458.4 453.9
5,200 415.2 411 5,300 458.2 462.4
5,300 401.5 405.2 5,400 454.8 467.7
5,400 389.5 400.5 5,500 452.7 474.1
5,500 378.3 396.2

i agree with rolling thunder..... with an hsr your car will not feel as strong as a tpi around town.... that added power with an hsr will be useless because how often will you exceed the 4000 mark.... i sure dont exceed 4000 rpms at all... .the only time i do is when im accelerating hard... i really dont see why alot of people try to get as much hp as they can get but they really never mention torque numbers..... torque is your friend.... if you have real good hp but ok torque it will feel sluggish until it reaches higher rpms and by the time you do reach those higher rpms ur breaking the speed limit or the guy with the superior torque has already have car lengths on you and the race is over before you can reel him in......

Unfortunately the formatting on that one didn't copy over right but the dyno sheets are on pages 4 and 5 of the link provided.

i dont have a pic of my ported edelbrock base or slp cold air intake but just do as i did with my highflow tpi and u will be happy. you will have one hell of a tpi... i just wish i had a nice set of heads with this build. like afr 180...

wow, you guys have hit the nail right on the head. My old man was the only man that could actually understand what I was thinking(RIP). But you guys pretty much have told me in car parts what I am thinking. I feel good now about what I want out of my car and the engine to get it. get ready boys...........this lunatic is gonna be tearing it up wwwwooooooooo! and 88fastgta. you handle east nc ill handle the west ;o

the numbers look great for TPI... but still very restrictive above 4500 TPI has TO much bottom end from the long runners.. so you end up roasting your tires and get smoked out of the hole the race is already over... I built many TPI setups with plenty of mods.. It is hands down not even close to my HSR modified to a 1206 intake port my bottom end is awesome!! with the HSR my upper end is outstanding!!! so if you like monster truck pulls and no RPM's stay with TPI
0 - 60 in 5.0 sec woow that is slow your right TPI is great LOL

Now there's a legitimate argument for the stealth ram. That what it boils down to is the added hp worth the sacrifice of low end torque? Personally I disagree with it as with any car you want to build power in the range you use it in and on the street thats 99% low end but there is no question that it dosnt flow too well in the high end. Usually modded long tube runners will run out of breath at 5-5.5k depending on mods ect but again for the street thats perfect and on stock motors whos max RPM is 5.5 k there's no point in building hp to 6.5k. For racing though theres no question hands down the stealth ram is the way to go but for the street i just don't think it gets better than the long tube runners. That's just my oppinion though. What i like is not necessarily right for everyone and 88gta3508 take on matters is just as valid. In the end all that matters is what the OP prefers, ungodly amounts of torque or a better top end there's no real right answer just preferences.

What you did to your runners is minor. Read this site and then you will see that you can make hi hp and hi torque with those runners but the stock heads will kill it. http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tp...owing-tpi.html (Quest for a better flowing TPI)
If you haven't heard we the people on the Southern Cali Board has found the problem and solution to the TPI. For get what you have read in the shoot out. We had done it for real. My Super Ram has been done the same way.

I have to agree with Vincent. The world has moved on since those reports were published. A search on this website will show what the latest results are. On one result we opened up and shortend the runners on a Super Ram by 3 inches and it not only made more horsepower but the torque increased. It is called cylinder filling.

In my opinion if your car is going to be a cruiser, stay with the TPI. If you want max performance and are going to race it. Stealth ram all the way. Like I said I noticed a very little difference in torque when I switched to a hsr. It's nothing a nice stall couldn't fix anyway.

Do either of you have any dino results to suggest a short runner intake can out perform a comparable long tube runner set up in the low end? I had read bits and pieces of the Quest for a better flowing TPI since it was new and i havnt seen anything really surprising. Not to talk down peoples work or anything thats not my intent as there were some great flow numbers posted and great results but heavily ported "long tube" runners making more high end at the expense of low end is pretty much expected. The peek numbers are great but its where they are thats important. On the street sub 4k numbers are paramount and from even that thread although the peek numbers were improved but still the general trend of long tube runners making great low end torque vs short runner set ups like the stealth ram with better top end. There was a lot of links to other threads so in a lot of ways it was hard to follow ill admit i may have overlooked the dyno result that prove otherwise so maybe someone could point it out?

I never stated I made more low end torque after my hsr. I said I didn't even really notice a huge difference. Some people seem to think they're going to have a slug off the line if they get a HSR, which is not true. Or the car is going to be a slug until you get to 4500+ rpm which is also untrue (well I guess you can say it depends on the cam).

When I had tpi and good traction I'd beat a lot of ls1s off the lights. But by 60 they were ready to pull past me. I also went off a red light with a stalled ls1 with good traction like mine. I'm lucky if I was ahead until 40. Not to mention if a ls1 or srt4 pulled up next to me rolling, I knew I was done for. All I'm saying if it's a cruiser with a little bit of street play or track. There's nothing wrong with tpi. If you're looking for max performance as far as racing goes. Tpi is not the best choice for a high performance application. Match a H/C/HSR setup with the correct stall and gears, and you're certainly going to have plenty of low end for the street.

well i can say is im happy with what i got.... i read that quest for a better tpi months ago..... its would be nice to have those numbers but im happy with what i got.... and 88gta3508 i dont know if that 5.0 second thing was suppose to be funny but i consider that real good for a 3650 pound car and conisdering completely stock i had a 7.4 0 60 time i think ive done pretty good.

what if your car has a wc t-5. not auto. does that change anything much?

Im just going to add my opinion here that I dont see where anyone said the hsr was going to out perform tpi on the bottom end....when I decided to switch to hsr and was researching the past 2 months most ppl said that the difference was very little.Meaning that slight difference of about 40 or so ft.lbs of torque was more of the butt dyno feel talking.The hsr was still making very good torque numbers down low and depending on how you optioned your build you may not lose torque either.I choose the hsr with the intent of still making lots of torque down low and knowing the potential for more hp is always still there in the future and Im not limiting my output uptop should I take it to the track or have a few higway runs. Lets face it..having alot of torque for the street feels great and sure you can out launch alot of cars for a short while but once your upto speed..then what? Or you go on the highway and can barely pass other cars because of the tpi falling flat after 4500rpm. I looked at all my options to build a 383 which has great torque and breathe to 6000rpm with 3.73 gear and 2800 stall.It will launch hard..actually it does harder than before when i had my tpi with 3.23 gear and 2500 stall.A slight loss on the motor for tq isnt the be all and end all..there are too many factors to affect this than just the hsr itself..tuning also plays a big factor on the entire setup.

Where one thing might fall off you can gain in other ways if you build it taking everything into account.

No my post wasnt aimed at you I totally understand and agree with what youve said 100% TPI for cruising HSR for racing. My post was for VincentZ28 or 1989GTATransAm. They claim that they can get better bottom end than a long tube runner intake or at least equal and more top end. From what ive seen of the thread (which was aimed at making TPI perform in the high end) its still the same old game of trading top end hp for low end torque so i asked if maybe I missed their dyno sheet that proved otherwise.

Rolling Thunder,

Just asking a question not to be rude or anything but with those articles about the tpi shootout which was done sometime ago.Are you more concerned about the motor itself making more tq or what the car does on the street being able to use that tq or not?

Im only asking because even if the hsr vs tpi may not have as much at a given low rpm..having alot of tq isnt always good if you cant plant it to the ground either.This is where things get interesting in my research because some guys on here report that having a little less torque did yield a better 60ft launching at a higher rpm and yes having goobs of tq with great traction can also give a very good 60ft aswell.Two very different ways to get the same end result.What do you think?

I think that standard transmissions are a little more forgiving when it comes to camshaft durations because you can determine where your engine engages the rest of the drivetrain. ie- stall converter, but it doesn't help if the intake has an upper ceiling and won't breathe past ****RPM

anyways.......... I was thinking about your original post and thought that this might be interesting.....

The camshaft that I used in my project was from Lingenfelter Performance. It's a relatively small cam because @ the time I was affraid of tuning...
262/270 duration (211/219) & .536/.560" lift (with 1.6RR) I graphed it against the 193 Heads and 305 peanut cam that was in the car originally for comparison sake.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/al...0-lpe-1-a.html (HSR+AFR180+LPE+1.6RR=Dyno #'s!!!)

As you can see the cam topped out Tq @4800 and Hp @ 5300........ Thats with HSR and a lean Air Fuel Ratio..... But looks like a decent TPI cam (that's what it was made for....) if you can handle the 1.5 ratio lift....
The TPI intake would shift those values to the left and the car would feel stronger in the lower RPMs

Just more to think about

Its ok no offense taken ill do my best to explain. For the moment lets just look at the theory of how to chose what you want. The basis of my argument goes back to the fundamentals of what every person should be thinking about when it comes to building motors or anything else regarding cars. First ill take a step back from even than that though to explain why its important. Torque is a force and according to physics Acceleration = Force / Mass this shows that the greatest acceleration will be where you maximize the torque (mass being equal). Now based on this fact alone one would be tempted to believe that all that matters is torque and probably wonder why we even bother to talk about horsepower? The answer is gearing. Horsepower is the amount of work that can be done over a certain period of time. Continuing with the interesting problem that gearing poses peek numbers are just that the numbers that only exists at 1 point. Because we don't have an infinite amount of gears so we cant stay at out peek #s we need to build power over entire ranges of RPMs. But which range of RPMs? If youve heard of the area under the curve theory you already know what im talking about but for those that haven't the idea is that you want to build as much torque or horsepower depending on how you want to look at it over the band your using. Now here comes the key you cant really compare hp and torque because there related but totally different things. I look at it in terms of torque because its directly related to acceleration where as hp is combination torque at a RPM. You can look at it either way it really makes no difference mathematically as the 2 numbers are related. So if you were to look at the torque curve the whole name of the game is where that curve is and its shape. high end performers shift their tq curve to the high end (also known as high end hp) and others keep it in the low end. There are other differences like the broadness of the tq curve but for now assume the same shape just shifted higher or lower in the RPM range. Again back to the area under the curve. If your racing you want to generate the max area under the curve in the high end because in racing there's only a short period of time spend in the low end and a lot spent in the high end. If you were to say do an autocross where your taking a lot of turns the mid range may be very important so thats where you want your torque curve to be centered. Conversely on the street where your spending most of your time in the low end you want to shift this torque curve down into the low end. By doing this you get the maximum acceleration. The point of all this is to try the get the max force over the range its needed. On the street for daily driven cars this is the sub 4k range which leaves us with shifting the torque curve to the low end which is what most people think of as low end torque. Just like it dosnt make sense to race a TPI intake because its torque curve is shifted more twords the low end it also dosnt make sense to run a stealth ram on the street because it shifts your torque curve into the high end. In both cases there working outside of what their meant to do which means there doing it less efficient. Now lets talk practical real world. Everyone's different some people may spend more time in the high end than others leading them to want an intake thats geared more twords the high end. Most street cars however do not. I honestly can count the number of times ive been over 4.5k on one hand over the course of driving my daily driver so it makes sense to me to have a motor built around the idea of building up the low end. You also hit on traction issues. The thing about a car is its a total package you cant look at any one piece by itself. Just like you put on high flowing heads to match a high flowing intake you would want to work on improving traction to allow the car to work together to perform what its designed to do. This all comes back to the point of what is it designed to do? True street cars stick in the low end the original poster has a street car so that leaves the long tube runner as the intake that will perform best over the range of RPMs hes likely to be in. Its not that there's anything wrong with other intakes there just designed with a different idea in mind. Sorry for the long post but im hoping that should clear things up.

Also on a side note about the traction issue at a stand still thats a problem however while moving just cruising around in the lower RPMs (city driving conditions) traction isn't much of an issue and the acceleration would be better with a long tube runner intake which just translates to a fun powerful feeling car.