quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

I have a 1990 Camaro RS. It had the 5.0 L03 TBI engine. I swapped in a TPI system. The block is still the 1990 L03. But the heads,intake, the whole tpi system is from an 89 LB9 5.0. The ECM is a 165 ecm and the memcal is from an 87 TPI. The harness and sensors is an 88, first off is it ok to do this. Im also using the correct fuel pump and have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. When you start the car up. it runs pretty good. as soon as you accelerate it has no throttle response and almost dies. I figure it cant be the injectors because if it was the car wouldnt run well at idle. When i put the car in drive the rpm drops to 400 and the car runs awful shaking and barely staying running and then finally dying. the car will not accelerate in drive without dying. If someone could please help me out that would be great, I am dying to get this car running!

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Any trouble codes? Check fuel pressure. Connect a multimeter to the TPS and check for any spikes while doing a sweep of the tang on the TPS. Is the IAC working correctly? Didnt I help you on this issue already?

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

How do i check if the IAC is working properly? I will also check the TPS. What should fuel pressure for a 305 tpi be? I might have asked you about this before but on another thread i wanted to make my own, hopefully i will get more help/ input

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Remove the IAC and have it stick up so that you can see it from the driver seat. Now you have to do this quick so that the pintle (cone shaped needle) doesnt pop out when it extends all the way. Turn on the ignition quick and off. It should extend upon on. I think if you junk A and B terminals in the ALDL port, it'll extend and plung when turned on and off (ignition). If it moves in and out, then it works. This would be a perfect time to clean off the black soot on the pintle and in the throttlebody. PS, dont loose the little gasket for the IAC. As for the fuel pressure at the rail I think is around 45 psi when primed and around 40 while running. Do a search and find out.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

ok thank you it looks like i have some troubleshooting to do. when i test the TPS how do i connect the multimeter to it like what ports? and do i slowly open the throttle when testing? Also if im using an 88 Harness and sensors is it alright to be using the 165 ECM with the 87 tpi memcal. on the 90 camaro original tbi

John 89 Formula

the 88 harness and 87 memcal should work together ok, 86 to 88 were all pretty much the same. The only thing I would be concerned about is that you installed it into a 90 car I don't know for sure but some of the pinouts on the bulkhead connector may not be the same.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

can anyone explain a little more about these pinouts. ive heard this before but ive never gotten any details

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

To test the TPS, I would suggest using to long needles just because they are thin enough not to mees up the small rubber boots. First dip the needles in motor oil to ease the penetration throught the rubber boots. You want to pierce the top and middle boots. Then turn the ignition on. Hook up a voltimeter to the needles by using some alligator clips or you can use wire and wrap them around the needles. then just foolow these instructions below. When doing a sweep, open the throttle slowly. You want to check if there is a sudden drop or spike. If there is a drop or spike in the reading, then the TPS is bad. You should see a smooth transistion of the reading. It is best to use analog multimeter that uses a needle so that you can clearly see the voltage sweep. I would buy it at a store then return it to get your money back.

1. https://www.thirdgen.org/tpimod2

2. http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

3. http://mpikas.blogspot.com/2008/08/t...june-2000.html

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

thank you very much Chevy86. As far as the pinouts go i did some research and found some diagrams for the c100 on the 87 and 90 camaro.
The 1990: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport..._1990_C100.gif
The 1987: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport..._1987_C100.gif

they are very confusing and what do i do with this information what should be my next step?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Hold on, I got a better description of the ECM pin outs.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Go to http://chevythunder.com/ , scroll down to
1986-1992 TPI ECM Pin-outs and click
then chose from the 4 different ECM layout that you need. They are labeled to give you a desription of what wire goes to what you need.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

alright thank you very much i appreciate this. Is it possible that having the 88 c100 connector on my 1990 camaro could be causing this problemm?

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

there is no pinout for the 90tbi to compare and there is no diagram to visually see where the pins are. where can i find this. How do i know if it is talking about the C100 terminal, front light harness connector. or the engine harness connector? and where should i be focusing?

John 89 Formula

print the 2 pics of the c100 bulkhead connector from the above post and compare them,
there are, from what I can see, alot of wires that are not in the right place. You will need to fix this before you can do anymore troubleshooting.

Another thing you may want to check is the instrument panel connector, the short harness that connects under the dash, pinouts on that may not be the same as well.

Also your airbag is probably disabled as there is no wire for it in the 87 harness, you'll probably want to fix that too, it's illegal to disable an airbag.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

this is great and thanks for all the information but i still dont really know what to do the diagrams show 3 connectors here. where are they? where and how do i do a pinout?

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

Let me make my question clearer. what do i have to pinout? the 88 harness or a connector on my 90 camaro. are they both c100 connectors? What is c207 this is all new to me but i will get it. I need to get this car running right. Also where are the connectors i have to pinout? the one going into the firewall? any other part of the harness. Do i pinout a part of the 88 harness or the 90 camaro plugs

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

Are the 1987 and 1988 c100 connectors the same? Specifically the engine harness part of them

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

Alright I found another site with the bulkhead connector diagrams. I compared the 87 c100 on one site to the 87 c100 on another site and they are different how can this be?. I need a way to find out exactly what year c100 I have to be able to do this pinout the correct way.

One site's 87 C100: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport..._1987_C100.gif

Another site's 87 C100: http://berlinetta.info/media/shopman...00Camaro87.jpg

There are some differences .

ASE doc

John and 86 IROC are right on. You need to be sure that wiring is correct before you even attempt to diagnose a performance issue. That being said, your symptoms sound alot like a MAF issue. Once you verify that wiring is right, if problem persists, check MAF system for correct values. Hopefully youll get a DTC to point you in the right direction.

As to John's comment on the airbag, the verdict of a class action law suit, over injuries due to air bag deployment, forced the NHTSA to back off on air bag regulation. While air bags are required as OEM standard equipment, it is at the owner's discretion whether to disable them. I have customers now and again ask me to disable them. I have them sign an RO requesting this operation.

John 89 Formula

I was not aware of this, thanks.

John

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

Thank you thats good to know. Also what is a DTC and how do you test the MAF, hopefully i will get some work done on the wiring tommorow

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

When I give info or suggestions, I do it to the best of my knowledge. If I don't know the answer, you better believe that I'll try to find it for you. As for your question of why the two connectors are different on both sites is based on the sites author. In other words, berlinettas website, the owner told me that there was a 87 IROC with an outside third brake light. I corrected him by telling him that 1986 was the only year for an outside upper brake light whether it be a berlinetta, IROC, Z28, or a Pontiac. He told me I was wrong. I told him I have an 86 IROC. Then I told him probably somebody had an 87 and replaced the lower mounted with a upper outer light rear glass. He never commented back. My point is thAt not everyone is correct. I admit that sometimes I get things wrong. Here is how to verify your wiring harness. Go under the passengerside dash and remove the underdash cover. Then remove the bolt that holds the ECM. Lower ECM. Now remove the connectors from the ECM. Next take a picture of the connectors and wires. Then go back to chevythunder.comand try do some matching. If you are able to match the color pattern, then your set.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

DTC= diagnostic trouble code

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Need help troubleshoot go here. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...uble-code.html

John 89 Formula

you need to change the pinout on the harness to match the cavities on the bulkhead connector.
the c207 connector is the instrument panel connector this will probably need to be repinned as well.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

alright so I did some work on the C100 today and i have some questions. First of all , to see what harness I had I used the diagrams I have to match it up and the c100 on the harness almost exactly matches up to an 88 Camaro except for 2 pins. On the 88 C100 DIAGRAM pins D4 and E4 are not used. But on my C100 they are used D4 is a yellow wire and E4 is a purple one. Im thinking maybe the harness is not an 88 Camaro but maybe an 88 Firebird. This description of my C100 doesnt match any of the diagrams I have. So if someone could find me Firebird C100 Diagrams that would be great. Thank you if anyone could help me

John 89 Formula

d4 and e4 are both for the vehicle speed sensor but ONLY on the tbi motor they are not used on a tpi motor whether it is a 305 "F" or a 350 "8" vin codes, but I'm not sure how it is handled on a tpi.

As far as differences between a camaro and firebird harness, the firebird has wires for the pop up headlights at d1 d2 and d3 those are probably not used on a camaro harness. The wires may be present at the ports, just not connected to anything,(that way gm doesn't have to build 2 different harnesses) but everything else should be the same.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

after looking through all my diagrams everything says d4 and e4 are not used. I dont know how to handle them, everything else matches the 88 perfectly.

Also a I have another question. On my harness Pin E6 is orange it goes directly to a plug near the firewall, it has 5 wires going to it . This plug isnt plugged into anything and pin E6 description is fuel control. I will post a picture of the plug can someone please tell me what it is for.

I attached pictures of the unknown plug





Thank you everyone

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

That plug is either the Mass Airflow Power Relay connector or the Fuel Pump Relay connector. In order to verify which one it is, you'll need some rubbing alcohol or any other oil degreaser to clean of the wires to display the colors. Then once you got the colors, you can verify what it is.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Here is the MAF Power Relay connector

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

86-87 TPI Camaro MAF Burnoff Relay Harness Connector

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

Thankk you very much for the info. Where do these plugs plug into? do you have any pictures of the other end of where these plugs connect to?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Hold on one second.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

use this diagram to see the colors of the connectors. let me pull up a picture of what and where they connect to.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

alright thank you very much

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

The 3 connections are located at this location circled in yellow. follow this link so that you can get familiar with the MAF Power Relay, MAF Burn-off Relay, and Fuel Pump Relay. Dont be fooled by these 3 relays. they look the same but 2 are very similar and the other is completely different. One has 4 prongs, one has 5 prongs with a resistor in it, and the other has 5 prongs with no (and depending on the manufacturer, yes it has a resistor) resistor. The resistor is to prevent arching which can cause the metal contact to weld itself which would cause damage to the parts that it is connected to. Fuel Pump relay and the MAF Burn-off relay are the same. So follow the link because it is very helpful. I even put some investigation myself and posted stuff that I learned in the thread....
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...nces-they.html

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

ok i will read this. will the plug that i posted up a pic of plug directly into the relay?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yes but you have got to have the correct relay/relays or else you can damage the MAF Sensors internal circuit board. The MAF Power Relay pawers the MAF sensor. The MAF Burn-off Relay turns on for a split second after the ignition has been turned off to burn off any foreign contaminants that may have accumulated on the thin wire that measures the volume of air that inters the engine. The Fuel Pump Relay just powers the Fuel Pump.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

I am almost positive the plug i have is the MAF power relay it has 5 wires just like the one in the picture. now my question is if that is the MAF power relay then where is the burnoff relay plug (the bottom picture you posted for me) I didnt see that anywhere on my harness. I have two relays on the drivers side of the vehicle. they are both round relays and one is fuel pump and the other is fan( single fan for tbi)

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

ok so i read and went through the entire post on the MAF relay difference. On the firewall i still have 2 relays from my 1990 Camaro. One is fuel pump the other cooling fan. i only have one plug that is square. that is the one i took a picture of the other 2 are round. Im just wondering what relay plug is which? this could deffinately be causing my problem

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Could be. What is your vin number code? In other words, when I go to NAPA to get a part, they ask "what is the vin code." I reply with "F". For a 87 I think its "8".

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

If your code falls within these set of vin codes, you might be able to identify the connector by its color.
http://92b4crs.tripod.com/86wiring/86wiringindex.html

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

original vin code is E 1990 L03 Camaro.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

ok. I got a Haynes underwear book. OOPs, I mean a Haynes Camaro repair manual. Let me read over it and depending if my wife lets me get back on the net, Ill reply. If not, I try to have an answer for you tomorrow. Here is what you can do. Start another thread under the engine board and explain what you got. Name it "Vin E 1990 Wiring harness connector harness". If there is anyone with that style, ask them if they can take a glance at what they have and make a reply.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

This seems right to me, it is a picture from an 88 camaro i got it out of that post you sent me, what if that square plug is for the fuel pump? are there 2 wires on the square plug that i can jump to test. I dont know but as of right now my fuel pump works.

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

also ok and thank you for helping me out

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

If it was for a fuel pump, then the pump wouldnt work. Another question, Is the wiring harness for a TPI, or throttlebody injection

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Can you verify the colors of the wires for me?

quick90rs

iTrader: (3)

original car is a 1990 TBI. harness and system in the car now is an 88 TPI harness. I cannot verify the colors because i dont have the vehicle around im going up to the garage tommorow i will take some notes while im there

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Hold on. Let me see if a buddies Camaro has the same harness.