dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

yeah i hear ya thanks for the kind words it feels like a journey thats for sure

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Just had ankle ligament reconstructive surgery today so this is now put on hold. Afr is gonna upgrade my heads for me so 195 here i come. Its a good thing i didnt do any port work to the heads. Thank you everyone that has helped me so far this forum has been great

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Heres good luck to your surgery.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

thank you ill need it, today was the first day and im already bored

Artisan

Good Luck on a speedy recovery!

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Great Customer Service! Glad it's coming together.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Good advice.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

I called Jones cams and comp cams and crower cams here's there recommendations mike Jones seemed to know more about heads due to the questions he asked me but it could just be me. He also said that afr heads like no more then 4 degrees separation on the duration due to the exhaust ports.

Jones cams 224/228 with .544 lift on 113 lsa I believe he said he wouldn't go any bigger he actually said a 216/220 cam at first but I told him about my other cam and I wanted to upgrade he said this one .

Comp cams said 226/232 on xfi lobes .57 lift. lsa 113 But if I went that route I think I would want a 226/230 cam . A lot of people have had good luck with the xfi cams and it would make sense that the in between of 268 and the 280 would have the same.

Crower cams said 221/230 with .550 int/.581 exh. on 114 He said that having more seperation on the duration will make the car run cleaner . the power he said was at 430 is at the crank but that just a program he uses. he actually recommened at 210 cam for me at first till i told him I wanted bigger

I will be using one of these 3 companys as they have good customer service and great results. Crower actually gives a 1 year warentty on the cam if you dont like it you can return it for another

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Once I say smog to the cam guys they automatically go smaller. Anybody know anything about the crower cam specs

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I guess in your situation with emissions, you will keep it on a wider LSA. Thats ok and can still make power. you can talk to the various california guys for cams they have run in the past and passed smog. 268xfi has done well, and now i've seen them use up to the 280xfi and pass.

So anything in the mid 220's range is what i'd run. Normally i'd probably go on a 110lsa or tighter but not with emissions concerns.

I like Jone's cam. Its a good grind as his cams are always great cams, and a few guys have run them in their cars. 1989GTATransAm runs a jones 228/228 on his old combo and now a 233/233. The 233 pulls to near 6800 rpm without falling off much on his 369 so on a 353, i'd go in the 220's. 224 is a good size for a 353 and a siamesed TPI setup. The more siamesed, and more flow, the bigger the cam you could run, until you hit emissions concerns.

I like the other grinds too, as they have good lift to compliment the AFR heads.

Crower aint bad either and would work great. Cant argue with the exchange warranty!

Any of those cams will work but please use AFR upgraded 8019 springs if you get the AFR heads

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

thank you i was also thinking the mike jones cam, but crower also has a 225/230 on 114 lsa same lift as others i think I like that cam alot but not sure kevin91 runs a lunati version similar on a 113. and he passes smog. not sure about what the lsa does for the cam except for help with tuning when its higer, also i have already talked to afr about the upgraded springs might get the heads milled to bump up compression to the mid 10.5 not sure if its costly

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

this is the final color of the engine bay and soon to be car this is color is almost like a pearl in the dark it looks teal and in the light it looks like nice royal blue

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Car looks fantastic! I was lazy and didnt repaint my engine bay.

But any of the higher 220's is about what i'd put in that motor.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

thank you very much The engine bay was chiping in some spots and there was no way i was putting this engine in a jacked up engine bay even if it was a little chiping. If i didnt paint it, it would bug me everytime i looked at the engine bay once i touch something it has to be better then it was before.

What does the LSA have to do with? Like running 225/230 on 114 or even the mike jones cam 224/228 on 113

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LSA is basically a end product of placing the intake and exhaust centerlines. This comes from placement of the valve opening and closing events. Its a complex science but basically the valve lift curve is created based on valve size, head flow and port shapes/velocities. A theoretical duration and lift point are calculated for a given engine combination to support the intended rpm range/useage for the motor. LSA is just calculated afterwards. Given 2 cams with identical lobes and durations/lifts, if all that was changed was the LSA's, you'd change the valve opening/closing points and this will have effect on the powerband. Increasing LSA decreases overlap as it starts to open the exhaust valve earlier, and opens the intake valve later, also closing intake valve later. Depending on the combination of parts, too early of an exhaust opening can have some charge blow out the exhaust and too late of an intake valve opening will hurt incoming air charge. Result is less power.

Although not the most accurate, desktop dyno has a cool cam manager feature that you can plug in various values and see the effects on the engine combo. It also shows the cam lift curve and calculates valve opening/closing events. You can see how one aspect effects another.

Now depending on the lobe shape, it could be a wash between the two cams, being a degree or 2 off from each other. May not notice any power differences.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Thank you very much on explaining that a little better for me as far as lobe shape do you mean how aggressive the nose is. For instance the xfi lobes vs the xe lobes from comp cams . How can you tell this when you are talking with cam guys. And when they recommend cams for you.
How bout lift the more the better? I think ill have check out that dd program. always learning something.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lobe shape as in the shape of the lift curve. There could be more area under the lift curve with one lobe of 224 deg duration than another with the same 224 deg. One lobe may accelerate the lifter faster than another and to a point, this could become harder to control as rpms increase. XFI lobes are abit steeper than the XE's. Just look at the lobe lift. Similar duration but XFI has alot more lift. Its moving the lifter alot faster and moving it across a greater distance in the same amount of rotation time. Therefore those cams need more spring pressure and/or lighter valvetrain mass to control it at high rpms.

You also can check durations at various lift points and compare them to other lobes. Lift and duration at .006", .050" and .200" are common but you rarely see numbers for what happens after .200". It could be a square nose shape for all you know.

More lift isnt always better. You can have a head flow 350cfm at .800" but you may only need .650" lift to make the hp you need to run the times you want to run in the rpm range you are trying to achieve Its a balancing act. Say 450hp at a peak of 6000 rpm on a 353...it may only need .560" of lift and a cam of 228 deg to get there (just throwing numbers out here). So although the AFR heads flow to .600", you dont need .600" lift on your cam.
The more rpm you turn, generally you start seeing more lift inorder to prevent head port choke. As you turn higher rpms, and the engine demands more airflow through the open valve, air velocity increases. You will eventually get to a point where the velocity is to high and the port flow chokes. So if you continue the turn higher rpm, you will have no more cylinder fill, and power will start to drop off. Thats the end of your power band. All motors hit this point, and its because of too little cam, to little compression, to small of a head, valvetrain stability issues, or intake restrictions...or combination of all.

This is why I like to pick the heads and intake first, and then cam to match. Need to know what cubes you need to hit the power you want given simple rules like hp/cubic inch. A great street/strip pump gas motor will do 1.5 hp/cube IMO. There are some guys acheiving closer to 1.8 on wild setups spinning 8K rpm and still on pump fuel.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

some of your post should be a sticky if they arent already thanks a bunch so it seems like both cams companys are about the range then like injector plus said to me i guess I just need to pick I think the mike jones cams looks like a good grind to me.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I can tell you about Kevin91z's cam because it was my old cam and it passes smog. It's a Lunati 226/234 LSA 113 .535/.535 lift with 1.5 rockers. I don't remember what it is with 1.6 rockers.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

pm sent

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

lookin like a great build I love that color blue D.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

there you are i knew you come check it out thanks man I love that color to I was so worried that it was gonna come out the same as the orginal color cant ever tell with paint chips

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

So I have been gone for awhile working on a few personal problems but I sent my afr 180 back to afr and im getting a new set of 195s There customer service is amazing.
So with shipping there and back upgraded springs, milled to 60cc, and cleaning the other heads where the head gasket was cost me a total of 375 dollars which in my book is way worth it

cuisinartvette

Really like that 221/230 Crower cam that would be my pick. I


Crower will always recommend on the smaller size (they are very conservative) ...those guys there have been around forever and know their stuff make some excellent products.
Take one over a Comp Lunati whatever any day of the week.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I agree, I was using their 225/232 on 114 .540/.550 for my 375/410 RW power combo.

I didin't even have a very good intake manifold (285 cfm)

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

thanks you ron and don, that cam you have now was similar to the specs of what I wanted. How is the driviablity of that cam?mpg? not that it really matters but curious

Artisan

When do you think you will have the car back on the road? I wish I lived near you guys. It seems there is so much more tpi stuff going on in California.

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

The Great TPI Resurrection. I personally just didn't wanna go LSx, so I did what I could with some of the stuff I had. If I had it to do over these days, I prolly would have gone LSx, more aftermarket for it.

Will

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

yeah but its mostly down in southern california come on down.. Im not sure about the car hopefully this summer my ankle surgery has set me back a few months.

Yeah i didnt want to go lsx either i wanted a tpi set up why???? i dunno I also dont like how lsx looks in the engine bay either.. But your right the aftermarket base is huge.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Called crower and talked with someone else and he recomended a 214/220 cam? and And then i told him I wanted a bigger cam and this guy said he would go no bigger then a 220/228 cam 531/553 lift 114 lsa and duration is 278/286

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

It is really tame, very good street manners,and I got 25 MPG on the road with a 6spd. and 3.73's.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

i ended up ordering the 221/230 .560/.581 273/284 adv duration 114lsa cam from crower i wanted to go bigger like what dyno don has but i dont think i have the intake or the bottom end for it plus its bigger then my xfi 268 cam, they say stock bottom end shouldnt go over 6k anyways. I think this will fit the bill with my afr 195's and cali smog

cuisinartvette

You made good choice imo, it will tune easy and run hard with your entire setup.
Its easy to get sucked into a too large a cam #1 offender here lol.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, i like the idea of a big lopey cam but its not practical plus the 114 will make it easy to tune and i should get decent mpg. I will have a cut out so i will be able to hear the cam when its open and not so much when its closed cruising. I will have a 3" hooker aero chamber muffler on it as well to keep it sounding somewhat stock ish

ASE doc

Are those lift numbers using 1.6 rockers? That's alot of lift for that duration. Even the ramps on my ZZX aren't that fast.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lobes look good. Should work out well and be smog legal for sure. Definately use good springs, those are pretty aggressive lobes but i've run abit harder lobes than that on AFR 8019 springs (shimmed alittle tho) just fine.

Just a touch bigger than the 268xfi, probably similar in power with edge to the crower

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

yes those are the corrected lift with 1.6 rockers here is the link to the cam
http://www.crower.com/chevy-262-400-...-efi-4143.html

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

a touch? hmm maybe i should have went with the 225/232 cam well as long as i hope to make 350whp and have great manners

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The 268 is capable of 350whp so the two crowers will do it as well. The intake is gonna make or break it If its really ported it will do 350 easily. If you have emissions the 221 will pass easier than the 225 but they arent too far apart so likely to both easily pass with good tune, and since other guys have run that 225 cam and the 268 xfi in cali, you know its proven to work.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Well thank im excited about everything now, no regrets about the build anymore
thanks to everyone that has helped me with the parts from top to bottom

thank you guys
norcalz28
dynodon
cruisinartvette
1989GTATransAm
injectorsplus
orr89rocz
artisan
vincentz28
385in2005
southbay

norcalz28

iTrader: (13)

Now I just need to get to the track and see if it's any faster than the old L98 LOL

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

hahah it better be

Artisan

Its going to be a Great Combo!

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

no new updates havent touched the car I have lost alot of my motivation trying to get it back
.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Here's your motivation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRM53QzssIs

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

hahah thanks man i got a kick out of that, guy needs to learn how to do figure 8s

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Haha no problem. Now go turn some wrenches!

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

So i just got my engine back from the machine shop with my new crower cam and my new afr 195 heads bolted on, my compression is at 10.9-1 now with the 60cc chambers. I had to use a race gasket so that my compression wasnt at 11.2 Its a little higher then i wanted and I hope that i will be able to run pump gas but im gonna start putting the engine bay back together. need to figure out the dynamic compression now.

cuisinartvette

havent logged on forever.

Any updates?

89mulletbird

iTrader: (4)

Saw this thread, but was hoping to read the final #'s. It's almost identical to my build.