Mancha87

I have a stock 305 in my car & I want to upgrade to a 350 so that I can build off of that. The max I would be willing to take up to is 400hp. But I want to take it slow, one step @ a time.

Is the stock 5.7 liter the right place to start? I am willing to spend up to 2500 for an engine. I don't want a crate engine though. I want to build it to my liking for the purpose that I will use it for.(Street Car/Cruiser) I'm not much into drag racing or stuff like that.

Also does anyone know where I can get a replica of the 5.7 that came in the 90's camaros? Its an l98 I believe.

BuzzLOL

.. The L98 TPI 5.7L/350" engine was about the same from 1987 to 1992... Iron heads in F-bodies(Camaro/Firebird), aluminum heads in Corvette... HP ratings changed (220HP - 245HP, 250HP 'Vette) with single or dual catalytic converters. higher compression ratio, and air filter designs... pistons were upgraded to flat tops in 1990 from shallow dished top... the roller camshafts spec.s changed slightly up and down in some years... your '86 TPI 305" prolly has a flat tappet hydraulic camshaft, they got roller cams in 1987 or so...

.. The TPI 350" engine would actually be sold as about a 325HP long block crate engine (using carb. and open headers)... GM still sells ZZ4 355HP 350" and ZZ385 385HP 350" crate engines which are about like a TPI 5.7L/350" Corvette engine long block with same -113 aluminum heads... ZZ4 has a bit bigger cam than TPI 350... ZZ385 adds bigger heads as well... both would bolt right under your TPI 305 intake system, which is also the same as a TPI 350 intake system except fuel injectors... would need to score some bigger 22 lb. fuel injectors from recycling yard or new prolly 24 lb. ones...

.. Or, you could build/rebuild similar or more powerful engines... most any engine building/rebuilding/speed shop could build you a "replica" TPI 5.7L/350" long block, although that doesn't sound like quite what you want... nowadays, a 383" sometimes doesn't cost much more than a 350" to build toward... and adds a bunch of torque... that crankshaft twisting force that slams you back in the seat at WOT...

.. You could also modify your TPI 305" with better air filter setup, different camshaft/lifters/valve springs, and headers/free flowing exhaust system/muffler and end up with a faster car than any of the stock TPI 350" cars were..!!!

.. In fact, the stock 1990 - 1992 TPI 305 cars (230netHP) were faster than the first single cat. TPI 350 cars..! These 305 cars had merely dual cats., higher compression ratio, and a bigger roller camshaft...

.. Around 1991, the TPIs also went from MAF TPI to MAP TPI, but most would prolly consider that a mistake... even GM went back to MAF around 1994...

MAF - Mass Air Flow - ECM (Computer) reads the mass air flow meter and adjusts everything from there as necessary - can change to adapt to mild engine modifications or malfunctions...

MAF - Manifold Absolute Pressure - ECM reacts to manifold pressure by adjusting everything to fit rigid tables in it's memories - doesn't know how to change to engine modifications or things going wrong...

..Both systems can be modified with a laptop and chip burner... skim quickly through the 'Performance Prom' sticky above for a better general feel for all of that...

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

dont get hung up on the term "crate engine", unless your putting the parts together your self it's all the same...

if there is a crate engine that fits your liking (I'm sure there is for 400hp NA) then its no different than speccing one out and having it built to achieve the same goal. If you don't want the genericness of a crate motor, swap the cam or something. And you dont have to say it's a crate motor, say it's a hot cammed 350 with Aluminum heads and a tune

Mancha87

Thanks for the info. Sail can you recommend a good shop for me to get this type work done? The 355zz4 is perfect, but I don't want to spend so much @ once. The wife won't have it. Do u think I could get a good 350 for 2500? If I get a stock 350 can't I convert to a 383 later if needed? Can any l98 be modded to my desired HP number?

darbysan

You didn't say, but I assume you want to keep the TPI? If so, getting the right heads will be important for your intake to fit. If you want to build an engine, you might consider this L31 short block as a start. It's a 1 piece rear main seal, roller cam ready block. Just add your cam and heads, and you've got a real good start at your engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350290387668...ht_9992wt_1139

If you are going to have a shop build the engine for you, $2500 may be a low figure.

BuzzLOL

.. The Vortec shortblock linked to above would be a good starting point for those uncomfortable with bolting one together... the dished 4-eyebrow pistons wouldn't be my first choice when building an engine... and I'd rather have the block decked than the heads... but it will run OK as is with a cam and heads bolted on...

.. I've recently seen rebuilt 365HP 400" crate engines for about $2650... these HP peak at the low RPMs of a stock TPI setup...

.. The GM all new ZZ3/ZZ4 was about $2500 before the GM bankruptcy in Fall 2008, but has since doubled to near $5,000, making if far from a bargain now...

.. If you can unbolt a used 350" (or 400") engine, take the block to a shop for re-boring, and then re-assemble it with any new parts needed, you can get a 350-400HP engine for around $1,000... plus a good learning experience... and your wife may be glad to have you around the house all the time puttering around with it... or for ~$1500 could up the 350 to a 383" instead... once you do one, you can build about anything...

3D87C4

PM sent

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

A 400 INCH motor is quite large for a stock TPI intake, too large really.

Mancha, really any 350 roller block will work for what your trying to accomplish, 2 bolt or 4 bolt mains, high nickel, blah blah blah they all are fine at 400hp. That means yes an l98 can be bored and stroked to a 383 if you choose down the road, or a 396, or a 355, or you get the point.... If I was you I'd pick up a 350 short block and (maybe some new heads? $$$) (the basic GM 260hp 350 is essentially an L98) and swap it in and use a stock l98 tune for the TPI setup and get the car running. From there you can do headers, exhaust, intake porting, other bolt ons, nice aluminum heads, and get the car ready to support a more powerful motor then cam the 350 and do some higher compression pistons. That will give you a nice start and you can spend money slowly and learn along the way.

this place sells short blocks: (so do other places I'm just giving you a start)

http://sdparts.com/

as far as a shop to do the work, an engine hoist is $200 at harbor freight or you can borrow one from someone and the rest just needs basic hand tools. I do it all myself so I have no idea on a shop, sorry

Mancha87

I found an engine on that website sail gave me a 350/290hp. I noiced u said shortblock, this is a longblock. Will it still work? Also I do plan on changing the intake, is this something I should do before headers/exhaust? Or does it not matter.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

yes it will still work, "short block" generally refers to a block with a crank/rods/pistons/cam maybe lifters and thats it. A long block is more complete and has heads, sometimes an intake and oil pump and pan etc... It really depends on how much you want to reuse off of your 305 since things like the oil pan, intake and much more will work on both. IMO if you can afford the long block you'll be better off since this is you first engine swap. Be sure to use a new oil pump no matter what!

intake or headers/exhaust do not matter what order you put them in, although it's easier to swap intakes with the motor out. The thing is with stock exhaust it will be hard to notice any gains from the intake, so it really doesn't matter the order

Mancha87

Awesome, you've been very helpful sail. The long block will run 1900+100 flexplate. I wanna get this done b4 the roundup. How's your car coming along?

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

well you've got plenty of time then! Its coming, starting final paint and assembly of everything today

BuzzLOL

.. LOL! It's kind of silly to recommend a 396" build, after saying a 400" is too big. Actually, even the stock TPI setup can support over 400HP as shown in the above old 2005 Super Rod 'sticky' thread testing on a 383" engine... and would do even more HP on a mild 400" if required to...

.. I would stay away from the "Hecho en Mexico" GM 260HP/290HP 350" crate engines. They're NOT the same as a late 1980's-1990's L98 350"! They're early 1970's 'Dark Ages of Engines' early emissions slug technology with '8.5' nominal, actually only a wimpy 7.6:1 compression ratio (dished pistons, bad quench, big 76cc combustion chamber heads & small valves) and even older 1960's flat tappet cams designs, and NOT roller-cam-ready. The 290HP engine only has a weak 330 lb.-ft. torque, when a mild 350" with 430 lb.-ft. torque can easily be assembled these days... The cam in the 290HP engine isn't that bad, but it was originally designed for and used in 1969-1970 L46 Corvette-only engines with 11.0:1 compression ratio and big 2.02"/1.60" 'fuely' valves, but sucks gas like it's going out of style in an inefficient engine with only 7.6:1. And low RPM and lower mid-RPM torque is nearly non-existant.

.. The suggestion of picking up a better built new or rebuilt used shortblock and bolting on some good heads is a good one. A properly rebuilt used engine runs just like a new one. I know, I've rebuilt/hopped up several with my own two little hands, and they're all still running strong.

.. A 350" engine with good heads, good quench, good compression ratio, and mild duration modern cam (under 220 degrees) can make up to 425HP nowadays while still being completely daily driveable streetable, mild idle, and with good 20+ MPG... (similar to a new Camaro)

.. Couple good EFI/TPI articles to read:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...s/viewall.html

http://mpikas.blogspot.com/2008/08/t...june-2000.html

Mancha87

buzz would u recommend picking up a beatup 350 from a late 80s early 90s camaro/corvette rebuilding it and working off of that? My question is how would I verify the HP & TQ on one of those?& what makes them better than the hecho en mexico. Roller cam? Compression? And how do I verify those parts were not replaced. I'm a novice in the engine world......... But I appreciate the suggestion and I may be willing to take that route if I can verify all of the above.

Giving my lack of knowledge I would be more comfertable haveing a 383 properly built for me. Problem is I don't know what to ask for. Aluminum heads, roller cam, high compression pistons? What compression am I looking for?

Marv02

If you want to go Cheep go to the Junk Yard fine your self a low milage 350 out what ever put a hotter cam in it and call it good, I would find a roller motor my self you can reuse the lifters and you could put a set of roller rockers arms to free up some free HP at the same time lowers you oil temp at the same time and the motor runs easyer you just might pick a MPG here and there at the same time.


If you going to build a motor build a motor dont screw around you end up spending twice or three times as much money time and headachs the way your going.

My first 355 motor went bad with 3500 miles on it so I had to build anouther motor so I know all about spending twice as much and I stepped up to a 383 this time around.

Buy a good Block a engine stand and build as you get the money it together what you want then put it in the car.

It make no sence to put a 350 in the car then pull back out machine the block for a stroker buy a new crank puiston ect for the stroker.

I have at least $6500.00+ in my 383 $1800.00 In the trans $250.00 for the chip I had my headers but if you go that route add anouther $2000.00 for every things cat mufflers ect.

I running a 4 bolt main truck block 1 piece main seal right hand dip stick cast crank, Hiper Pistons 10.7 to 1, full roller cam rocker arms, Trick flow heads, springs for the cam, Hi Fow Intake base Spl runns 24# injectors like I said it adds up fast.

Power cost Money bottom line.

BuzzLOL

.. Actually, try to find a low mileage TPI 350" if possible...

.. Here's some good articles to help you out:

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/43314_buy_used_engine/

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ine/index.html

http://www.circletrack.com/tipstrick...ine/index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...nstall_basics/

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/43063_cheap_engine_buildup/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...k_chevy_build/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...k_chevy_build/

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/51578_sm...hevy_assemble/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...engine_stands/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ssembly_tools/

http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/84819/

http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/3...vrolet_engine/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/3..._engine_build/

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...vy_383_engine/

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/869/index.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ylinder_heads/ $909 now

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...s/viewall.html

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

re-read, I was explaining the options when boring/stroking a 350 block later down the road. A TPI is not capable of 400+ hp without major modifications and is certainly not near large enough for a 400" motor, ask the cali guys on this board. I dont care what a mag says they are trash most of the time with fluffed numbers....

you throw out a bunch of questionable numbers; I'm not going to dissect your long post but it's full of some massaged figures...

Marv02

You can get 400 HP out a 305 350 383 there no replacement for displacement basicly it's much easyer to make the power with more Cubes.

You can get the power out a 305 but it will take a wilder cam better flowing heads most likey Forged crank pistons taking about MONEY then will ahve to have a Mini ram type of intake and a free flowing exaust to get the Motor to Rev it will have to scream it will not be a bottom end motor and you will have to run some deep rear end gears more money.

As for a 350 you wiln't have to go as wild to make the same HP like I said cubes help a a lot.

I went with a 383 mainly it cost almost the same as a 350 both cast cark hiper flat top pistons same heads ect. But you pick up 40 more HP and about 40 TQ easy power to gain that why I went with the 3838.

I have a TQ motor right off the bottom I have set up to rev to 5500 or 6000 max RPM range for a steer car it's for me a good combo.

Be real on a street car how offen are you going to be reving 7000 RPM's most likey 2000 cruising speed once in a while getting on the HWY your wind it up.

With a Low TQ motor most of the time you dont need the low gears in the rear your not reving 3500 or 4000 RPM's cruising on the Hwy and if you were to be turning that many RPM's you be sucking gas.
And you better have to good high end parts if plaanning to rev like that all the time or some will let go and that would be UGLY.

Donrt listen to lot the Bench Nascar wantabee's bench mechanic's that pick there parts form the parts catalog and never built motor them self that think for some reason high reving most HP you can make will be a good street car motor it will not.

I use to race Dirt bikes and they found out just because it make the most HP on the dyno it's the best motor to have.

The Key is the right amount of TQ and HP when it needed for what you need to do a street motor is a diffrent set up than a full high rpm circle track motor need that dont get below 5000 when it up in the high spped oval.

It up to you to figure out what the best set up for you and what will work in your budget.

Dont forget more Power more money and the Stock Auto trans are not ment for High HP with out being modded to much HP then you looking a tougher rear ends the list go's on and on keep that in mind.

With the power I pushing in my 3500 LB 1986 Veet it should be able to do 11.200 in the 1/4 I nevery race thew car down the !/4 but it nice knowing what it might do this on a computer dyno.


If you want me to break it down what it cast me to build my motor I will but you better be sitting down when you do LOL.

It looked like you do have a big budget so dont plan big if you cant do it you just get when you try to cut cornner and find out it willn't work.

You best bet get a junker motor roller block get a engine stand and build it slowly when you get the money Plan it out what will work and what kind HP and TQ and op range is going to work the best for you.

You Can put a bigger cam in a larger cube engine it will start kicking in a lowwer RPM range.

My cam in a stock 350 said 1800 to 5800 RPM range with the 383 it more like 1500 to 5500 range.

Marv02

Remeber back in the day of Trans Am seires the 1967 though 1969 Z28 Camaro ran a 302 motor and it was a screamer a high reving SBC and it worked it was due to the rules back then the 350 was to big a engine for it racing in the Trans Am seires.

And the 307 was just a od bal engine.

You can make a 305 work but what I read before it not a thick wall block ect so as any OEM SBC block I would not go past 500 HP my self or you will have a time bomb waiting to happen if you do it any ways makes sure you have you AAA towing card with you.

You just might need it one day.

Mancha87

I've decided to go with a 383 solely based upon how much more I can do with it down the line if idecide to go real big with it.

I talk to guy @ Ohio crankshaft that said he could get me started with a 383 shortblock for about $2800 does that sound about right? He also said he would have to know what type of heads I would be using to know what kinds of pistons to use on it. What am I looking for in pistons? Also what are some key things to look out for when buying that block?

Marv02

Dont use them go look at there crank shaft falure rate it's high and there cranks are not that great you can fine better.

I looked at them before I built my motor after doing some digging found a lot bad things about there cranks.

Marv02

Take a look at theses guys.

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/category.asp?CtgID=22977

Keep on looking ask around there most likly a engine builder in your area what good about that you can see there shop if clean and ask others what kind of work they do.

Fine some Car clubs in your area and ask them who they use as a local engine place.

This My vett just after getting running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4437KXPkzw

Oh ya sorry I had the dryer running in the back ground LOL.

Mancha87

Cnc was a lot cheaper and they were willing to answer a few of my "dumb" questions. There block comes with a steel crank and small dish pistons 18cc. Roller cam ready. I will continue to shop around tho and ask a few "trusted" mechanic shops around town and try and find something local. Really appreciate all the great feedbacks u guys have provided. I will keep ya'll posted.

Your Vette sounds great. I want to make mine a little quieter tho, can't wait to sneak up on an unsuspecting lsx and give em a good run. Hahahah

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

Go lt1 dude!! You can get those cheap and they are 300 hp stock

Marv02

Is what kinda of steel cast forged same for the pistons what do you want out of the car.

A high Rpm screamer or a out of the hole TQ monster.

BuzzLOL

.. Sounds like you need to sit yourself down and come up with realistic expectations of power and budget...

.. Do you want a $1,000 engine, $10,000 engine, $100,000 engine?

Mancha87

@ Buzz lol Based upon the research I've been doing it's looking like I will end up spending anywhere between 6500 & 10000 For the final product. Thats on the engine alone. My goal is to have the engine complete by the end of 2012. But I would like to have the short block on a stand in my garage by the end of February. I have not calculated cost for the tranny,gears,suspension,brakes, and stuff that will break. What I don't want to do is spend a ton of money on the wrong engine for my build. I realize that this will be the most important component so I don't want to get it wrong.....

@ Marv02 I want a straight out of the hole TQ monster. That I can drive 4-6 times a month. Maybe take it out of town 3 times a yr. I would like to stay on 87 octane if possible but it's not a must. for this set-up what types of pistons,crank & rod should I request?

@evilmokid94 Don't want to deal with the headaches of that type of swap. I will do some reading up on it in the swap board tho, maybe it's not as bad as the ls1 swap. Thanks for the suggestion

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

its almost a complete drop in, besides the harness thats the biggest issue and pocket here can do those for cheap that are a plug and go. its erally easy, they are cheap, parts are plentiful, and they are mean engines stright from the factory. thats what im doing, lsx is too many headaches and conversions and extra you gotta buy. i dont want that

italiano67

iTrader: (1)

I just bought an 89 Iroc with the 5.7 TPI. The previous owner installed a new long block from Advance Auto and had a mild cam installed also. I have the receipts and it shows around 1500 bucks for the engine. He did put new injectors in it also. I am sure he went stock size on those. The engine runs really strong and would be a good budget option also. Spartan Engines rebuilds the engines for Advance and they have a good rep. Also comes with a 3 year warranty. The only noticeable diffrence from this engine than my 87 350 TPI is it spins over longer before it starts which might be from the bigger cam and the fuel mixture. Dunno.

Rice01

I have an 88 5.7TPI. the stock heads are begining to have issues, valve guides going out and leaking oil. with the theme being building a stronger TPI how do you tell what heads will and wont work with the TPI intake. I've got a summit catalog full of options, but I dont know weather our cars have raised ports ect...