ASE doc

Okay, now the plenum really has me scratching my head. I just don't see how you're going to make this a one piece plenum. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

86White_T/A305

Talk about thinking out of the box! I can see this working for a high revving motor.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I would consider a dual pipe plenum that V'd in the front with a standard GM TB flange.

ASE doc

My coworker has the hood up on a Honda Accord with the V-TEC V6. It has a plenum like that. It would work. Something about the dual plenums with dual throttle bodies though, it just looks so tough.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

It is going to be a two piece plenum with the floor being one part of the plenum. The sides and roof will be the rest of the plenum. I need to do this in order to have room get the distributor in and also get the injectors/rails installed without having to remove the valve covers.

There will be bolts coming through the roof of the plenum and bolting to the floor piece like on the Holley Stealth Ram. There will also be stanchions with the bolt holes in the middle to prevent over tightening of the bolts.

"Talk about thinking out of the box!"

It has taken me years of thinking how to do this without breaking the bank. In fact I had given up until I saw some extruded aluminum runners designed for the LS3 motor. Then the light bulb went off and back to the drawing board. The biggest challenge was how do I build the runners on a shoe string budget. The aluminum runner extrusions allowed me to do this.

The project is evolving as I build it. The EV6 injectors being a case in point. Believe it or not but it should have good mid-range torque. I am planning on peak horsepower occurring in the 6500-6600rpm range and shifting by 6800rpm.

ASE doc

Hats off to you man!

kylet8020

I'd love to see this with the runners making a x, with the injectors being on the outside of the runners so they could be shown off. but this just a though

ASE doc

Resubscribing.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Probably should post an update. The runners are being welded onto the base. I should be picking it back up from the welder this afternoon and do some blending of the runners to the base. So things are progressing. Should start on the plenum based next week as the material for that is on the way.

ASE doc

Thanks for the update. I didn't mean to drop my subscription. This is my favorite thread as I love watching your progress on these experimental intakes. I am just constantly picking up new threads as I try to help members diagnose their cars. Then I delete these threads once the car is fixed or if I feel that my input is not helpful. I must have accidentally deleted this thread and only realized it last week. I am excited to see the finished product and your results.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

An update with a couple of pictures. One showing the location of the EGR valve and another looking down one of the runners that is closest to completion. The other runners need to go back to the welder one more time for some inside welding at the "joint". Next up will be the start of the plenum.

cuisinartvette

You are out of your mind

I love it lol

How will you get this past visual? I see the base is "stock" and EGR but the rest or are we talking grey area here

Keep up the good work!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Certifiably crazy. Hahaha.

Anyways the plenum will look very similiar to the Super Ram plenum. The plan is when I get the plenum done we will test it on a 383 that just put down around 580hp on the engine dyno at Westech.

At that time I will not have it totally completed but enough to run it. If it does well I will finish it off and try to pass it off as a Super Ram for smog purposes.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Dyno day will be fun!

cuisinartvette

That is awesome I wanna see it!!
Bet it will make plenty of power along with gobs of torque

Tell us about whats in the 580hp 383 sounds like fun

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

This intake will not be ready for dyno day. Version 2 of my long tube runner project will hopefully be installed and ready for testing. If all goes according to plan I will slip this intake on if anyone gets to close to my club record. Gots to have something in reserve.

The 383 has my old AFR 195 Competition heads with a mega porting job by Dr J. It was also using a heavily ported Edelbrock dual plane intake. The cam was something like 242 @ .050" on the intake and around .600" lift. 11:1 compression. Maybe Pat will chime in as it is his motor we will be using.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Wow, just wow!

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much a run of the mill 383 only with Allen's ported heads ( the runners poured 220 after porting) and the Dr. J's Air Gap RPM intake. Mike Saiki speced out the ISKY Hyd. roller cam. 244 @ .050 intake--246 @ .050" exhaust. 113 LC. Lift is right at .595" on both with the 1.6 rockers.
The chambers came in at 61cc. The flat top pistons are about .007 in the hole. I used Dyno Don's super secret .028" GM head gaskets. The carb was a Holly 4150 that flowed at about 1050CFM.

Peak HP was around 6500 rpm. Torque peak was at about 4800rpm.
We are gonna try to get this engine on the dyno with the "Cross Ram" installed before the end of this summer! We will start with regular 91 octane pump gasoline, then we can try some 100 octane unleaded, just for a comparison.

ASE doc

WOW!! Those runners look great!

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

add 1 more WOW! to the list.
i would like to see a picture showing the whole base from the front, top & side,.. please

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wow thats gonna be a fun combo... and it runs on 91? Compression is pretty high for that That cam has to be fun too. My 246 hyd roller on my 400 is pretty aggressive, i cant imagine something similar on a 383.

cuisinartvette

You got my attention now those are OUTstanding #s considering whats in there wow.

I have a 10cc larger head 260@.050 solid ported single plane wonder if Im even making those # if so probably at higher rpm. Thought about the new 220s...and maybe a smaller HR. I am addicted to the solids but the thought of long road trips, may have to make the switch. Goes to show with the right head you can run less cam and make huge power.

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I purchased the gasoline myself at the "Thrifty" gas station. Take a look at the dyno test on (Bryce's) Dr. J's Performance web-site or on you tube. We kept the water temps between 130-140 degrees and no detonation at all. I imagine thats due to the correct combustion chamber shape. Also, as you know, these heads really don't need much timing to make the best power. I think the last pull ( the HERO pull!) had only 32 degrees. Allen wanted to try a pull with 31 degrees after that.

Would I try to run this thing in my street car with the 3.31 rear, 2200 stall weighing 3700# that runs at 180 degrees??? Heck no! We are just using this 383 as a mule for all of the "Insane Guy's" (Allen) cam and intake tests. It's a whole lot easier than taking it in and out of his 89 Trans Am

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Hi Ron. I promise, It's just the heads with "AirWolf" program and the guy who specs out our cams. This cam was chosen only after the heads were done so we knew exactly what specs were needed. Only one small problem though. If I ever put this 383 in a real, street driver car, I'll need another pair of good heads only with about 76CC chambers so I will feel comfortable running 91 octane gas all the time.

I'm thinking I'll lose 20 or so HP by lowering the CR from 11.5 to 10.5???
Not too bad for me but for some folks, that would be totally unacceptable!

Take care..

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I will see what I can do. Right now I am going back and forth from the welders. At this point in time I am not too concerned about the looks on the outside but the function. If it works well then I will "dress" up the outside.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I have the TPI Cross Ram back from the welder with the lower plenum plate in place. No grinding has been done yet. Here are six pictures in two posts. The plenum will be two inches wider on each side than the base plate. The for and aft dimensions of the plenum will be close as to what the base plate dimensions are. The width of the base plate as shown is about 10". The width of the plenum will be 14 inches.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

....and three more pictures.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

Hey Allen, have thought about ditching the old computer system and going with EFIConnections 24x's LS1pcm conversion? Seems like it would be better to control the engine with all these radical mods you have

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

thanks, its looking really good
man the distributor cap is close, are you sure your going to be able to fit the plenum on?
if your motor can't get enough air with that, then its forced induction time

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I have thought about it early on but the 7730 seems up to the task. When it goes on the dyno it will be using either the Holley or FAST EFI system. It will be up to Westech to determine that. They are aware it is coming their way.

I need to grind maybe .060" off the back of the plenum plate where the distributor goes. That area will get machined smoothed and there will be about .250" of surface for a gasket. If need be I can mill into the runner another .060" for more room. The runner is .125" thick at that point.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Haven't checked on this in awhile, looking great!!

Have you seen this thread??
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...ml#post5337043

ASE doc

WOW! and again WOW! That is really looking great. I see now how you worked out the transitions and now of course I see where you're going with the plenum. Would like to see a photo or two inside the runners. Where is John Lingenfelter these days? He could have used your help when he designed the original Superram. How is your vertical clearance going to be? Will it clear your strut tower brace?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I have not seen that thread. Thank you for the link. Some interesting ideas.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Vertical clearance should be fine. Not going any higher than my large tube TPI systems. I was at the machine shop today and we are making good progress on building the plenum. However my welder has started a two week vacation. So no welding until he gets back. Things are moving along nicely and maybe some pictures next week.

cuisinartvette

That is friggin awesome.
You must be paying for that vacation with all that welding lol, small fortune wrapped up in that intake! Will be one of a kind though.

Anxious to see how the plenum winds up to feed those runners they can move a whole lot of air through there. How tall do you think it might come out?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Anxious to see how the plenum winds up to feed those runners they can move a whole lot of air through there. How tall do you think it might come out?"

Right now I am going for 9.250 total height at the rear of the plenum top from the bottom of the manifold "china wall". It will start slope down to the front at 8.750" where the throttle body bolts on. The slope will resemble the factory plenum. The inside height of the plenum will be 3.50" in the middle sections and 3.375" on the outer sections. You will see what I am talking about as we proceed with the build.

As to the plenum feeding the runners that is my major concern and why this will only be a basic functional build until I see how it does on the engine dyno. If it works than I will finish it off. If it does not work as planned than that will be the end of it.

I have been toying with the idea of putting a small verticle 1/4 circle vane between the two pairs of runners going towards the center. One on each side. This would direct air from the center to the sides of the plenum. I can always add those in later if need be. So yes feeding the runners is the main concern.

ASE doc

Those left rear runner entries are very close to where the plenum walls will be, especially at the very back. I wonder what the effect would be of cutting the runner entries at a more horizontal angle. Would that create turbulence? It would certainly create more space around the runner entries.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Possibly. The one thing in favor of the rear runners is that the air wants to collect in the back from the momentum of shooting through the throttle body. I will just run it on the dyno as is and see what happens. Then go form there depending on what happens. I think the dyno shop has O2 sensors for all 8 cylinders. Should be able to tell something from that.

Tex WS6

Just joined, have followed long tube TPI for awhile. Very impressive. Waiting for dyno results. Tex WS6 ns

ASE doc

I know that the engine dyno at Archie's has exhaust temp sensors on every cylinder. Same difference.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Here is an update showing how wide the plenum is going to be. The two clamped pieces on either side are part of the plenum floor. The other pieces not shown will follow the outline that is already there and attached to the base. There is plenty of room on the outside and I have made the plenum 3 3/8" deep.

We have made the bottom and sides of the plenum. However it will be another week before the welder gets back off vacation so things are pretty much at a standstill until he gets back.

watajob

iTrader: (29)

Here's what you're all looking for: You want it and you know it!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Progress update. The welder is back off vacation so the construction of the plenum has begun. Here is a progress picture.

Podium

iTrader: (2)

very cool!

ASE doc

Okay. Now I see how this is going. You already resolved my concerns about the rear runner entries being too close to the plenum wall. Very good stuff. I expect excellent results with this intake.

Then again, watajob's idea is really neat! Where can I get one? And to think I've wasted all this time on EFI. LOL!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Sheet metal looks kinda thin on the bottom. Although I am sure you should already know this, but remember to weld in supporting columns in the center area on the lower sheet metal, drill holes in the same area on the top cover to expose them, then weld them to the top to reinforce. I remember someone I know making what they call the "pizza box" for the V6 guys, and the thing would collapse downward from the suction because it had no support in the center...

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

We are on the same "wave length". That is exactly what is going to happen. The supporting columns will be maybe .020" to .030" taller than the plenum so as not to squash the seal/gasket. The final dimension is yet to be determined. It is most likely I will install some supporting gussets on the outer wall to the floor.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

the problem i see.. is the throttle body sitting right in front that first runner section.. the incoming air is going to slam against it.. then the air is going to have to zigzag around to make it into the ports.. and the farthest runners all the way in the back..

i think this is why most manufactures use a flat deck.. OR if they use a trumpet or runner design like yours.. the runners are all in a line, with a clear straight path for the air to get in..

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I'd like if someone w/ some experienc in fluid dynamics were able to speak to what benefit or change (if any) there might be to planing the runners off at the bottom of the plenum. Just because it seems like the simplest way to address what you're saying.

ASE doc

We haven't yet seen the entire plenum, or where the TB will be mounted. I expect that there will be ample clearance behind the TB to allow for free movement of the air to the outside where the runner entries reside. Turbulence is an issue with any intake design. It will be interesting to see what role it plays here. Using the 1200CFM monoblade TB should reduce velocity at the throttle so that it won't be such a problem.