Anyone else wondering where Magnum TPI is in GMHTP??? It's been about 6 months now since they were supposed to have some numbers. Is something wrong with it or what?

I thought they screwed up the TPI motor and were switching to a LT1 motor. Thats the last I heard. My subscription lapsed

that car has issues. all the parts they put on and thing still ran like ****. i started following it and still read what they have to print about it but i do not take motes on it no more. you say they are going to an lt1. to bad. the tpi got the best of them.

I just got the new issue today, page 8 does have a small write up about Magnum TPI. I guess they blew the Evans water pump and a tow truck backed into the car. Man, that car is jinxed, it's more of a PITA than even my car.

If you look in the first 10 pages or so, they have a blurb about the Magnum TPI. They finally got the motor running, but they blew the water pump and were running extremely lean on a dyno run. So they need to reburn a chip for the ECM. Also a tow truck backed into the car so it's in a body shop.

I wish they would have stayed with the 350 TPI and done a budjet build up from a (stock) point of view. A few of us out here can't afford 1/4 of what they have done for that thing and it still runs like S**T!!! I'd spank them with my 350 TPI right now and I've only invested about $1300 in motor and a tranny rebuild combined over a period of 2 years!!!

They don't know what they are doing.

I'd like to see a magazine do the LT1 intake swap onto a TPI motor with all the good dyno info before and after.

I e-mailed Car Craft about doing something on a LT1 intake swap and never got a response.

John, what about GMHTP? THey are a little closer being in NJ vice the Left Coast.
My intake is just collecting dust. No way I'm changing anything until I get the problems sorted out.

I wrote to GMHTP about doing a story on the stealth ram this is what they wrote "You gotta be kiddin'? It's taken us a whole year just to get our SuperRam
motor up! Our next TPI tech story will likely be on the Scoggin Dickey
Vortech TPI base. We'll keep our eye out on the Holley piece though." This was in the begining of feb when they wrote this.

Okay, maybe I'm glad my subscription lapsed!

John, I think the Magnum TPI project would be a great chance to test the new Holley Stealth Ram.

I e-mailed them a couple of months ago and told them they were boneheads for dumping the budget build and going hog wild. They didn't like my e-mail and tried to defend their decision to build a motor and car that those of us in the real world could never afford. Well, all I have to say is I got my rebuild done 6 months quicker than they did and my car hauls ***! Did I mention they're boneheads for spending over $10 K on the motor alone.

Damn it!!!! At least tell us what is going on if it is wrong or not!!

JMHO, but the magnum project car is exactly how NOT to try to go fast in a thirdgen. Despite looking good on paper, they NEVER got it running right, and after screwing around for months basically gave up on it. I bet the motor blew, i'd drain my oil and rev it to the moon too if i was running 13s w/ AFRs and the whole 9 yards.

I heard through the grapevine that they actually did have it running and the MOTOR actually blew up and they had to rebuild it. By blew up I dont know what they mean. Could have been a spun bearing, or a broken piston. I dont know.

That is what i HEARD. You know how rumors go.

You know if that happened, they would not openly ADMIT to it.

All that car needed was a speed pro.

I agree that they should have done a budget buildup. I thought that they were using Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads? Anyways, they always seem to get fast new cars, but what they build never runs like it should. The fact that they have built the first motor and it ran soo bad and they had no idea what to do kind of got me out of following the buildup all together, but I do hope that they at least get the 396 in the 12's


Chris

To many gremlins I think... I mean first they have the whole MAF problem, I remember something about the ECM problems, then they throw the rod (death of the stock motor), they rebuild and all this crap happens. The car is cursed.

It blew up on the dyno

Magnum TPI has been a mechanical ******* from the start, so I don't blame you for being mad. Hell, I'm mad at myself, but unlike you guys, I can't just sell the car if I get fed up. People have been promised things and I have to follow through.

I had a longer, more involved post prepared, but my computer crashed just as I finished. Guess my luck sucks...

BTW, how do you guys like Chevy High Performance putting third gens on the cover that aren't featured in the magazine? The new issue is the third one this year...

Why don't you grill Jeff Smith some.

Now that you mention it, that did piss me off. I bought that issue because of the thirdgen on the cover and was mucho-pissed when there was absolutely NO mention of that car inside. It's not the first time they did that either. I've got a few issues with that same red IROC on the cover and not a damned thing inside.

But the first person to review a stealth-ram on multiple engine formats (mild 350 to wild 400) will get my subscription money.

Stealth Ram?

Okay, I give up.

links?

jpgs?

Nobody's ever said the word "boo" to me about it. Remember, due to our limited circ, we ain't exactly on the top of every company's mailing list...

Johnny, We thirdgen people know which heads to use, many times which cam to use. Our main problem is the intake. We need some dyno runs of the differences between something like the stealth ram, miniram, superram, and lt1 intake.

You also might want to check out the AAG forum at LS1.com, they are a little upset right now as well.

Magnum TPI used the 23* Trick Flow heads if I'm not mistaken.

They initially went with a set of extrude honed TFS 23's. They have now gone with a set of AFR 190's that have been "cleaned up".

I took it off I dont want to a be the guy hitting below the belt.Any way take a look at http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/WhatsNew/WhatsNew.html its down a bit

I'm not aware that this product is even on the market yet. I've never seen it. Ever. When I frequented the old board (before my post count got wiped out) the SuperRam vs. Miniram debate was visited often. The consensus was that thirdgen.org members wanted us to do a shootout between the two. As I said back then, a comparison dyno test would be unfair to both manufacturers because the rest of the engine would necessarily and unfairly favor one manifold over the other. The debate became so heated that I made the conscious decision at that time to distance myself from thirdgen.org. In the end, I chose the SuperRam because its tuning characteristics favored my performance goals.

The above email is not familiar to me, but it's possible that I could've responded that way. I respond (usually briefly) to as many emails as possible, most of the time from people I don't even know. Perhaps I assume too much, but in my opinion, posting private emails on a message board is below the belt. I think it's a reasonable expectation on the part of the responder that his email response not be posted over the internet, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

Johnny, would it be ok to do a comparo between the SuperRam and MiniRam/LT1 intakes just to see at what rpm range each one REALLY provides an advantage at?

For example, my thought after hours of researching for my current engine combo, has been that if you only rev to 6000 rpm, the SR better b/c it will give you the same HP as the MR/LT1 at that rpm, but more bottom end torque. While after 6000 rpm, say you shift at 6500 or 7000 rpm, the MR/LT1 is the way to go. But I have not been able to test this theory for lack of $$$. I think if you gave both intakes a clear advantage (provided there really is one) at different rpm's, then it wouldn't be bashing any manufacturer. It would help out A LOT of people when choosing between these two intakes as well.

Maybe test the intakes on a 350 or 383 with a good flowing set of heads (AFR 190's or similar), and use 3 different cams. Maybe cams like the LPE 219 or LT4 HOT cam for the "middle" sized cam, then use a smaller cam (LPE 211/219) and larger cam (CC306)

Now, If you have you have spent a boat load of money on a thirdgen only to have it run mid 13's, raise your hand. Now, if you have spent boat loads of money on a thirdgen only to have the engine blow apart, raise your hand. I've got mine raised for the second one. Hunkins got stuck with a bad engine and a car with some electrical problems. At least GMHTP's idea of a thirdgen buildup doesn't involve cheesey wheels, a chip, an airfilter, and high 15's.


edit...sorry for the cleaning. good points in this part though.

sounds like Magnum TPI needs a DIY-WB and some lessons from Grumpy....

Personally I am waiting for a serious G-Body oriented article, but I doupt that they would publish anything that hasn't been rehashed a dozen times before or I don't already have on "file".. :lala:

GMHTP needs more "street" level info and less flash, I quit looking thru it a year ago....same ol high buck bombers.

John.. little different than your days at Muscle Mustang, but I hope GMHTP "fills" out like MM did. cheers, Bob

Okay, now it's coming back to me. The Weiand Stealth piece is not actually new, it used to be a tunnel ram carb manifold which they originally had injector bosses cast in, but not tapped.

My recollection of this was from the MM&FF days. Weiand (before the Holley takeover) made the same one for Fords too. Cartech (the turbo company in San Antonio) bought them, put their own sheetmetal upper on it, and sold it with the injector bosses drilled, and with injectors and fuel rails installed.

Now it looks like Holley has taken the idea further than Weiand and is using the SBC version for a full-on EFI setup with their Commander 950. Phew...

To my thinking, this unit doesn't really fit in the same category as the Scoggin-Dickey Vortech lower, SuperRam or Miniram because it isn't specifically made for TPI set-ups using factory TPI electronics or hardware. It looks very cool, but if you wanted to do a comparo on the Stealth, you'd have to widen your testing to encompass a whole bunch of other units from ACCEL, AS&M, Edelbrock, and GMPP. Personally, I don't think my continued employment would be compatible with a test like this. Somebody's head would roll, and in the end it would be mine.

I'd consider a stand-alone story on the Stealth though. Does anybody know if it fits under the unmodified third-gen hood? Or if it clears the wiper mechanism on the firewall? Or if it has provisions for the stock alternator bracket? These would all be concerns for the TPI guy. The other the intakes I mentioned have this handled.

On the Magnum TPI issue, we will be resolving it shortly. Right now, the body has been repaired and the damaged section painted, the DFI computer has been installed, the Evans water pump replaced and the proper thermostat installed, and the dyno testing will begin in a day or two. When I bring it back to NJ, I have to go straight to smog/safety inspection (it's five months overdue and counting).

After dyno tuning, I will be bringing it to the track for drag testing. I anticipate going high 11s on pump gas on motor through the cats. Any way you slice it, this ain't easy or cheap with a third gen (compared to an LS1 which is like falling off a log).

I have always loved third-gens. It broke my heart when I special-ordered one new in 1991 only to have the dealer tell me "sorry Mr. Hunkins, we didn't know you were planning on keeping your existing car. Our finance department can't approve your loan." That would've been sweet. It was a 305 TPI 5-speed Formula in dark green metallic. Damn, that Banshee nose and that color are awesome to this day. Somebody out there has the car I ordered from Crown Pontiac in Greensboro, NC!

You guys need to understand something: I have waited 11 years to own a new third-gen. Another week or month means nothing to me. I think after our mods are all done, Magnum TPI counts as a new car. Don't you?

Johhny, the stealth ram can be purchased as just a manifold / plenum and fuel rail / regulator. Then you simply reuse all the stock TPI stuff like injectors, throttle body, distributor (must use small cap style), etc. The stock computer will 'run' it just fine, but obviously it will need PROM tuning, just as a minram would compared to a stock TPI.
This puts it out of the category of stuff like the edelcrock stand alone set-ups, et al, IMHO. The accel pro-ram is the only comparable piece, and that you still need a TB adapter elbow or a 4 barrel style TB to really be equivalent to what you're getting out of the box w/ the stealth ram.
As for the hood clearance, we have a couple members with the intake in their paws right now trying to get set-up to check hood clearance. Seems tight, but some folks are in contact w/ a holley rep who seems willing to help by fabbing / supplying angled spacers for the TB in case that is the only issue (the stealth ram is straight across the top, unlike TPI which has the slight downward angle.

In order...
I dont think so. Its at least 1" taller and not angled down at the front. At that number, it wont clear the hood of my TA.
Yea, easily.
Nope, I guess the V-belt guys would have to switch to the LG4 bracket and the serp belt guys would just have to lose it.

Youre right in that its not a direct swap, but its much cheaper than whats out there. For $450 (for the whole deal, base, plenum, fuel rails, AFPR) I can make it work. I might even be able to put it in my TA with a few bucks of fab work.

I dont see why not. My dads car was in there, but not fast enough to get an article. I'm working on that. I hope low 12's will qualify, thats where its gonna be if I have to turn the car upside down and stick a solid fuel rocket engine on it.

My dad knew this guy that did that once w/ a 6 impala and a jato rocket he took back from 'nam. True story, lol...

Damn sounds like too much jungle rot!! LMAO!!!

FYI..there's a Black 90 305 TPI 5spd Formula in the parking lot of your Saddle Brook office just waiting to be modded and painted

p.s. Whats up with the blue one?

cool, whats your dad got?

Trying to hit the 12's in my Bu with the present 305 would be difficult...lol, however I am wrenching a few ideas for its replacment.. either a 355 or run a baby LT1 3 inch crank and build a late model 302, both will have 6 inch rods and forged pistons.

Anyway need to CAD up the slave cylinder bracket and pedal brackets, and the T-10 is done.


Hey John, why did you guys chuck the GM ECM? A '730 with a custom chip could handle your motor no problem..cheers, Bob

Its an 86 Grand Prix, looks stock from the outside except for the dual exhaust tips out the back, and rims that werent available on the car but still factory Pontiac rims. It has a 350 with L98 AL heads, cam, headers, siamesed intake base. I dunno why it runs like it does, so right now I am working on eliminating any problems (lack of fuel, traction, possibly exhaust) and then if that dont work the heads are gonna go bye-bye. It should be 400hp or more, but its only at about 340-360 depending on how much drivetrain loss you want to figure in. I really feel theres something amiss with the heads, but I dont know for sure. One way or another.... its getting fixed and where I want it.

sounds neat, hmmm 86 GP...its not an Aerocoupe is it? I have some pics of a silver Aerocoupe, but its got a 502 in it.. What are your plans for the rear end? I have a housing from a 78 Lincoln, with fabbed upper mounts and stock lowers and perches. I have a set of 11 SVO brakes to put on once a buddy cuts my brackets. Rest is 28 spline axles, trac-lok and 3:50 gearset. In hindsight it would have been easier to use a GN/442 rear, but least its about done..lol cheers, Bob

The blue '89 305 TPI belongs to Steve Baur at MM&FF. He's going to be doing some low-buck tech things with it in GMHTP starting with the Sept. issue of GMHTP.

I don't know if you'll like it or not, but what the hey, it's worth a try. You think the Stealth would work on it? Even worth it for a 305? Or do we need a Pro Stock hood and a fabrication shop?

haha I can imagine seeing that.

Stock 3rd gen with a pro stock hood running low 14's.

See! I knew you guys had a sense of humor!

Nah, not a 2+2. Its an LE model the trim package between the base model and brougham. Special ordered the car in 86. We thought about the 2+2 front during the restoration/engine build but couldnt locate one for it, so we stuck with the chrome mess. The rear of the 2+2's really is a half ditch effort by a dimwitted engineer to graft an F-body rear window to a G-body. Thats one of the reasons we didnt get one when we bought this car. Also drove a GN, didnt seem anywhere near as fast as all the hubbub, so we passed on that too.

I dont have any plans for the rear until it blows up, if it ever does. Only thing I have done to it so far is swap out the pathetic 2.41 gear that was in it for a 3.42 and threw some poly bushings in there while I was at it. If it blows, it blows. No sentimental worries here.

Johnny, it just might be overkill for a 305. Rumor has it that its runners are capable of 300cfm. Much more than a 305 needs. Might not fit under the hood either, I'm thinking its not gonna clear as it sits. Its also like the miniram, not smog legal for those of us with smog-shackles on our feet. It looks like it will accept the TPI accelerator/cruise/tranny cable bracket though... thats a plus! Check the board, theres a few posts related to the intake. A guy from Holley is going to check the fit on a Camaro, and might make some modifications to the production unit if necessary to get it to work on a thirdgen. I guess we can keep our fingers crossed. :lala:

Johnny, go for it! When I solve my traction issues, I should be running 14.70s in good air with the TPI 305 in my Monte SS. Best run so far is a 15.0 @ 93mph on a sorry 2.4 60' time. Only mods the the motor are a Crane 2031 cam and World S/R Torquer 305 heads. It would be interesting to see what else I can do with the 'lil 305!