Is there any performance difference between these two transmissions? Is one a better tranny than the other?

the th350 is much stronger than a 700-r4. the 700 has a deeper 1st gear (3.08) but 2nd falls on its face (1.64, then 1 and .70). the gears in the th350 are more closely matched. 2.52, 1.52, 1.

If you install a 350 get a little higher stall and it'll make up the first gear loss from the 700.

thanks guys. thats exactly what i wanted to know. I have a couple more question for ya, does the overdrive gear give you better performance as opposed to drive. And I'm going to be getting the B&M Megashifter Console Model, and I have a TH-350 tranny, but the shift overlay from the pictures i've seen has OD on it, does it come with a different overlay for 350 trannies? Or does the OD one just go on anyways?

The mega shifter comes with both.

Brad...

my votes for the TH350

TH350's rule. 700R4's Sucketh.

Id go whit the 350

Hey guys, this is actually my first post, but this post really caught my eye. I recently have gone through 2 700R4 trannie's in the past 3 months. I am debating wether or not to go with an 87 or newer 700 with a highpo rebuild on it, or put a freshly rebuilt 350 in there. I'm pushin a 350 crate engine in front, with about 350 horses right now, hopin to bump that number up a lil in time also. Just wondering what each of you liked more or less about the 350 Vs. the 700, and why you overall would reccomend one over the other. All advice and input is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Dan

All this is still fresh in my mind as I swapped a few weeks ago. I had the 86 700r4 rebuilt with Trans-Go stuff and a Coan 2800 stall and after some tinkering got it to perform the way I thought it should have originally. Actual swap was easier than unbolting my ugly true dual exhaust system.
700 likes:
overdrive
steep first gear for street racing, then ya lose when you hit 2nd
700 dislikes:
big jump from from first to second gear-lose momentum
HIGH dollar rebuild prices
HIGH dollar prices for anything that goes into it
heavy
more spinning weight that takes HP away from the motor
350 dislikes:
No overdrive
350 likes:
If you have a long tail like I had no new driveshaft
Less weight and much less spinning weight more HP
Did I mention the motor will sound and act better with a TH350?
Gears are closely spaced from 1-3
Parts are CHEAP and so are rebuilds
Stronger to take more HP without problems
No wiring or TV cable to adjust so you can swap carbs in minutes

Right now with the rebuild kit, new 3500 stall, change over bracket purchased from member of this site, and labor to have it rebuilt I have a grand total of $404 dollars in it, I have better short times now, car is quicker, and lighter. If myself or someone else was considering keeping an overdrive tranny, I would'nt even consider a 700r4, step up to the 4L80E, it's a TH400 with overdrive, gear ratio is the same, no big jump between gears, and it's super strong.

if i remember correctly, didnt car craft do a dyno with each major gm transmission and the 350 and the 400 both came out as the largest horse power robbers??

The 400 had like 45 or 55 lbs of rotating mass and the 350 is like 35lbs and the powerglide had 20lbs. When I had the 700 behind my motor, it took longer to "spin up" than the new 350 does, now I no more than touch the foot feet and it's at 6 grand, I don't know how much this has to do with anything, but, with the 700 r4 my timing was set at 26 degrees full advance all in by 3000rpm, that was where it has the best times and mph, with the 350 tranny motor hardly ran at that, now I'm at 37 degrees total all in by 3000rpm and it runs and sounds better than it EVER did with the 700 behind it, don't get me wrong, it sounded and ran damn good with the 700 but it was like a light switch with the 350 once we got the timing set right.

Down side to turbo 350...
Keep in mind that on most third gen camaros you have to change the drive shaft (get one that is 2 1/2in longer. Get a different tailshaft for the tranny (with rubber mounts for torque arm), longer torque arm, and different a crossmember. This is for the fact that none of the third gen camaros never came with a turbo 350, you can get these out of the 82' camaros I believe

actually, 3rd gen camaros did come with th350's. when they were introduced in 82, they had the 350 and the m-20 (or m-21 forget which) 4 spd. the 700r4 didnt come out until the following year...

Yeah, I know all about the 350 changeover kit that is needed to put it into the car, but wondering what kind of performance differences people noticed between the two transmissions, good and bad, and overall which they liked more and why. Also, wondering how much of a ¼Mi time difference I may see between the two. Thanks guys.

sorry try again

they had 200R4's which is an overdrive tranny

3rd gens never came stock with th350s

and they never had m21's either

T10's..........

i just finished installing my TH350 tonite

if you want a TH350, just wait until you find the longtailshaft version.................keep your stock driveshaft................i kept mine



i need to go back out there thursday night, and hook up everything else.........................headers, bleed my rear brakes, fill my rear end, bolt the driveshaft on, hook up the detent shifter speedo cables, install my new ignition system, turn the key and hopefully everything will work

When I was originally gonna do this swao I had a short tail, and my tranny shop told me for X amount they have a change over kit for the third gens, comes with new output shaft, tail shaft, torque arm mount, ... everything needed I guess I think it was even under $100 but that might have been my price. I was'nt too sure about it and stuck it out till I found a 350 long tail out of a 75 Caprice. Yes the driveshaft bolted right up, the 350 long tail case is actually 1/2" longer in length than the 700r4.

sorry, yes. they were t10's and not m-21's. but the 82 camaro DID get a th350. camaros never got the 2004r's. they are an oldmobile and buick trans.....

I have been building TH350's, TH400's, & 700R4's for years with very good success. All three eat about the same in horsepower when "built right". It is the torque converter that has more to do with horsepower loss than just about anything. Very few people can build torque converters to match what you have in your drivetrain exactly. The more information that is asked about what you have and how you drive when ordering a performance torque converter, will give you the results you are looking for. Remember, the better the torque converter, the less the rear end gear ratio's and transmission ratio's matter. Example; a good TC will not showup the big drop off in rpm (as in a bog or flat spot) when making a 1-2 WOT shift with a 700R4. If you buy a TC from off the shelf?, don't expect much. With what is available for the 700R4, I don't see the advantage of the TH350/TH400 on the street anymore.

nope 82 and 83 camaro HAD to get the 200R4...........theres no way they would meet the CAFE figures without an overdrive transmissions

remember, we're talking OBD I here...................

monte carlos and GN's also used the 200R4 for a while

can i ask where your getting your info about the TH350 in 82 camaro's from?

Actually as far as I know, the early f-bods came with the 200c which was a lame 3 speed metric based trans. They never had the 2004r except the very few built with the 3.8 turbo buick motor.

>> damn 'JoelOl75' you beat me, I'll leave it up anywho <<

It wasn't the 200R4, it was the 200C.
My '82 stock had a '3' speed, not 4...If you don't believe me, I'll post a pick cause it's laying in the garage. I swap in a TH350


Ron

I'll also add that my 'Big Body' 81 Camaro had a TH200C!!! Can you believe that **** ! 8.5" ring gear, but a 200C I swapped a Th350 in it as well...

Ron

Don't forget about the th400/Gear Vendors overdrive conversion. I did this to my car after trashing 2 700r4's (the last one was one of those "super strong 600 h/p capable" rebuilds, ha!). I am very happy with my setup now and highly recommend this conversion. Take a visit to my web site and check it out. I know, "it is soo expensive....". If you want to save money don't drive a high horsepower sports car.

I'm going out of my mind.I have an 82 z28. It came with a 200c trans. So of coarse I'm dropping in a th350 w/ b&m holeshot 2000 overstall w/ a shift kit in it. And of coarse the torque arm mount does not bolt up to the trans. I can't find this torque arm braket to save my life. My friend said the swap went well on his 82 bird. Does anyone know where i can get this torque arm bracket and possibly the shift cable bracket.

I've already tried yearone for their swap kit. They emailed me the day i was supposed to recieve it and told me the item was on backorder.I've tried every salvage yard in my area.I've tried for after market complete torque arm setups.....nothing. My friend tells me its an L shaped bracket that uses the tail housing bolts to connect.
I'm really starting to think this part does not exist. I'm thinking of going to a machine shop to have the part fabricated. Thanks for any help anyone can provide concerning this matter.

sorry, i think i got confused. if the 200c was a 3 spd, thats what i meant when i said th350. sorry bout that

Hey 'panman79', heres the B&M part that I used...$79.99

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...15&prmenbr=361

Ron

OMG, thank you so much man.I've been searching for 4 days for that part. I don't know why i didn't look at jegs, but thank you so much

ok, sorry i was partly wrong too then.............so there were 2 different 200 transes huh?

i never new that.......

No problem 'panman79'.
Hurst makes one also, but I hear the B&M one is better. However they also make a change over for the TH400 as well.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...60&prmenbr=361

As far as a kickdown braket, Lokar makes the best custom fitting brackets & cables. However you'll need to use there thottle cable also.
I have a Lokar braided cable & braket, and it's soooo much better than stock it's not funny!!!
www.lokar.com
...Lokar stuff can be purchased though Summit Racing.

Ron

I just did the swap with the Hurst and that is one stought unit, very nice, I don't know about the B&M except it's cheaper new.

So with the th350 long shaft all you haft to do is get this adapter? for the torque arm

The shift cable bracket (on the tranny pan) for a late 70's Camaro w/TH350 should work with your 200C shifter.

Does b&m have a total swap kit with the shifter bracket for the th350 trans?
The 200c I had in mine was on its way out when i got the car. I bought the car for 800 bucks. The body is straight, engine is good(305), and I just replaced the trans.I just replaced the carb with a rebuilt rochester from a 79 half ton. I'm ruling out the computer because it is bad,and the thing is kinda pointless anyway.

With the long tail 350 that's all you need is the torque arm adapter, to finish the season out I reused my stock shifter, I had to take the bracket off the 700 where the cable hooks into it and swap it onto the 350, and now only 1 bolt holds the bracket to the pan. It's worked for 2 races and some street driving without a problem, but when I install the B&M mega shifter, I'm gonna make sure the new bracket bolts into 2 pan bolt holes. Like I've said before the long tail 350 case is exactly 1/2" longer than the 700r4 case so you retain use of the stock driveshaft.

I was wondering if i could do that, just use one bolt on the shifter bracket, thanks

Actually I am not sure if it was the same, but don't the 2.8l camaros (which I believe is a buick crossfire v6) come with a 200r4?(Yes chevy did mix and match parts because people complained about that because they wanted an all buick or all chevy ect. and chevy had to honor that because people wanted it.) And if I am right that is why the 2.8l camaros are the 60 degree instead of 90degree.

You only need a long shaft TH350 (9" tailshaft housing) or a longer Driveshaft if you have a 700.
With the 200C it's a straight swap to the TH-350 w/common 6" tailshaft housing.

The shift cable on the stock 200C will work on the Th350, but I highly recommand a aftermarket shifter, since the stock shifter sucks

Ron

Yes ronterry, your correct cause that was almost my option in the begining, luckily my buddy here in town parts out 3rd gens so parts are too much of an issue, he had a couple of the 200 driveshafts if i needed one, but since i stayed with the long tail, didn't have to worry about it.

Hey '1991tealRSt-topGuy', your not the only one that has 200R4 & 200C mixed. Check out Jegs Catalog JUL/AUG/SEP -- Page 144

It doesn't matter, there all POS TH-200 right


Here's a pic of the B&M change over kit install. It will give you an idea of how it's done. Getting at the speedo cable is kind of a turd, cause theres a little access hole for it..


Ron

Ronterry... with that changeover kit, does that affect where the crossmember mounts the tranny to the chassis? Does the tranny mount on the TH350 tranny line up in relation to the chassis with the 700r4? Are modifications or extra brackets needed for this? (Are they included in the B&M kit?) Thanks.

It I remember right there was an addition piece that needed to be purchased from the dealer for the 700 to 350 conversion. Not sure if this dealt with the crossmember or not.
B&M tells about this in the instructions(long gone, but I'll take a look see for them tonight), but I would call B&M and inquirey.

There is a braket that comes in the kit that relocates the trans mount so that it can be used with the stock crossmember, and fitted up nicley from where my 200C used to be. So I'm willing to bet the dealer part deals with that braket?

Ron

I didn't find the instructions, but I did find the box. On the box it says that if you are swapping a 700, than you are required to get GM Part #10024028 or 10034259 Torque Arm Outer Bracket.

Hope this helps.

Ron

About half of the car already have the correct bracket.

Did you have to slot one of the holes in the B&M bracket to mount your old torque arm bushing bracket???

See pic>>>>>>>>>

I don't remember having to do that, but I do believe the bracket does have two sets of slots, now that your bring it up. It's been 3 plus years since I did the job. I also noticed that in the box was the crossmember relocation bracket, that I obviously didn't have to use.
I guess the kit has 700's covered, however those GM parts might be for 84 up torque arms, I heard there shorter or something. I know that Edelbrock sales there own torque arm, but only for 84-92.

Ron

why 84-92 ? 82 and 83 are different ??

wow alot of confusion in here about GM trannies used, lol !

keep in mind that the 200c and 2004r and short tail passenger car(6" long tail) th350 are all same basic *overall* length- plus or minus a couple of 1/16" and are all same output shaft splines and diameter and shift shaft location and all have one or other size of flexplate bolt pattern, large or small. both sets of holes are in all plates. thats why there are six holes in GM plates.

in third gen:
200c used
700r4 used

2004r are used in '82-up G bodies and have dual housing bolt pattersn they bolt to all GM engines, caddy olds buick chevy etc
and so do some th350 trannies, some are BOP-C housings also

700r4 began in 82 also, no O/D auto trannies made before 82.



that jegs tail kit works on short tail th350 also ???


is that all it is is a bracket setup ? i thought it was a different tailhousing from what had heard..

interesting.,

and do 700r4 have same mount location as th350 ? hope so...

i need to get the damn retarded '700r4 out of the '84 Z28 and get the 350 in soon(truck 9" long tail)
thanks

TH200-4R is a kickass tranny thats why GM put them in 13 second t-types, GN's, GNX's, and the 89 TTA. True it was also used because it's bolt pattern allows it to fit anything, but it's also a better trans- the ratios are spaced better than the 700, and it's a true 4 speed(unlike the 700 which won't shift into OD under power). The only F-body they were ever installed in was the 89 TTA, in which they needed to be modified for the torque arm. For cars that don't need the extra help of a 3.08 first gear, a 2004R is a better racing trans than a 7004R. The downside is this- if you think it costs alot to have a 700 rebuilt, what shops get for a 2004R is outrageous.

Well, in my 82 z28 was a sorry 200c. The th350 w/ b&m holeshot i threw in rocks steady, I love the damn thing. My th350 is freakin bulletproof as long as i don't exceed 600hp.