Transmissions and DrivetrainNeed help with your trans? Problems with your axle?
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The die nut started easily and with a little tap magic (almost any type of oil will work for this) it went on easily.
I clearly mentioned using cutting oil when using the die nut. Mine threaded so easily I almost didn't need to use a wrench on the die. And honestly all it takes is looking at the push rod to see it's a two part setup. There was no need to mention this it's so obvious.
By using the die with no cutting oil, and forcing a nylock on that's why it broke. And from the pic you show, your putting the nylock on upside down anyway.
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Last edited by alloy; 11-01-2008 at 11:02 PM.
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i know its obvious the rod is a two part setup. i also know the nylock nuts are probably the biggest, if not the only reason the rod actually broke. i was simply stating that no where in this thread did i find out the rod had a hollow point. i did not realize i had nylock nuts until i got home and i just wanted to finish it to drive the car instead of waiting longer, which ended up not working out anyway.
i was just trying to share this info so someone else would not make the same mistake as i did. ive read a lot of info on this board thats helped me not make mistaked others did and i was trying to do the same for others
it doesnt matter whether the block is 1 or 2 piece as far as the shim goes. i did not use a shim at all. you just need to mae sure you bought a flywheel designed for a 2 piece motor. you will however need to read a few posts back about the mod you will most likely have to do to the clutch pedal rod.
Yeah I read that. Im going to by the RAM billit Flywheel PN 2555, its a conversion flywheel, and wieghs 18 LBS compared to centerforce's 33 LB'er. Im going to pick up a SPEC stage 2 clutch for it as well.
make sure you do the clutch rod mod in that case. ive had 3 spec clutches (one still in now) and all three are destroyed, 2 from slipping after not engaging all the way, and one from installer error. the only problem with soec (that i did not learn until i installed this last clutch), is that spec has a higher engagement point then other clutches for ease of engagement and better driving characteristics. however, the higher engagement point combined with the high pedal on the t56 swap does not enable the clutch to engage all the way. please learn from my $1500 mistake (3 clutches @ $500 each).
also look at marylandspeed.com the spec clutches are a little cheaper there, and the shipping is cheaper too.
Ya, I definitely need a shim of some sort for the flywheel. I think that's what causing my starter fitment issues. Only thing is GM says they cannot find any kind of shim for the flywheel....
there are shims made for this. dont look for one by the flywheel, look for one made for an lt1 application. it will work because the lt1 flywheels bolt up to any small block chevy motor, meaning the bolt pattern is the same, and the shims go behind the flywheel
yeah I know that, I know on some clutches the shim isnt really a shim, and the bolts go threw the shim, into the flywheel and into the crank. But on the flip side, the only reason for a shim is to put the flywheel out more for when its cut.
I hope your T56 swap is working for you. FYI: The throw out bearing is a sealed unit and does not need to be packed with grease. I would suggest wiping off the oily residue the bearing is shipped in. You don't want that splashing on your new clutch disc. Now, you may want to apply a very thin coat of High Temp grease inside of the sleeve of the bearing that slides on the front load bearing cap. Also, apply a thin coat of the same grease on the "shaft" of the front load bearing cap. Again, not too much. Also, apply a very thin coat of grease on the tip of the input shaft that inserts into the pilot bearing. You may also want to clean the splines of the input shaft just to make sure all the dirt, grime, and sludge are removed, which will help with inserting the input shaft into the clutch disc. If you have time it may be helpful to buy two bolts 4 inches in length that will thread into the two bolt holes on the passenger and drive side of your engine. These bolts can be purchased at any hardware store. All you have to do is remove the heads of the bolts and installed them, which serve as dowels or "guides" for you to quickly align and securely bolt your transmission on. Plus, you can always reuse them. Another option, is to install the bellhousing (BH) onto your engine and purchase 2 bolts that will fastened to your bellhousing and use them as "dowels" to guide the tranny into the bellhousing. This will also preclude the chances of damaging the tip of your input shaft and clutch disc. Before installing the tranny I would also suggest bleeding the clutch hydraulics if it needs to be bled. It's much easier to do this with the tranny out of the way. Also, install the flywheel cover plate (FWC plate) before you fully install the bellhousing. Because the bolts that secure the cover plate are difficult to tighten with the BH is fully installed. There's hardly any room to get your 10mm wrench over the bolts nearest the engine block to tighten them. If you don't have the original T56 flywheel cover plate you can use a T5 cover plate with a little modification of the hole for the starter and needing to drill 2 holes on the FWC plate. Or, you can use the existing holes on the FWC plate and just drill 2 new holes on the BH. Also, you may want to change the front and rear seals of the tranny. You don't want these leaking after installing a fresh clutch package. Lastly, pour the ATF into the shifter base hole before installing the shifter. It's much easier this way. You may want to lower the front end of the car and raise the rear to make sure the fluid gets into the gear box. I hope this helps. golfsavage
---------- Online170,
I hope your T56 swap is working for you. FYI: The throw out bearing is a sealed unit and does not need to be packed with grease. I would suggest wiping off the oily residue the bearing is shipped in. You don't want that splashing on your new clutch disc. Now, you may want to apply a very thin coat of High Temp grease inside of the sleeve of the bearing that slides on the front load bearing cap. Also, apply a thin coat of the same grease on the "shaft" of the front load bearing cap. Again, not too much. Also, apply a very thin coat of grease on the tip of the input shaft that inserts into the pilot bearing. You may also want to clean the splines of the input shaft just to make sure all the dirt, grime, and sludge are removed, which will help with inserting the input shaft into the clutch disc. If you have time it may be helpful to buy two bolts 4 inches in length that will thread into the two bolt holes on the passenger and drive side of your engine. These bolts can be purchased at any hardware store. All you have to do is remove the heads of the bolts and installed them, which serve as dowels or "guides" for you to quickly align and securely bolt your transmission on. Plus, you can always reuse them. Another option, is to install the bellhousing (BH) onto your engine and purchase 2 bolts that will fastened to your bellhousing and use them as "dowels" to guide the tranny into the bellhousing. This will also preclude the chances of damaging the tip of your input shaft and clutch disc. Before installing the tranny I would also suggest bleeding the clutch hydraulics if it needs to be bled. It's much easier to do this with the tranny out of the way. Also, install the flywheel cover plate (FWC plate) before you fully install the bellhousing. Because the bolts that secure the cover plate are difficult to tighten with the BH is fully installed. There's hardly any room to get your 10mm wrench over the bolts nearest the engine block to tighten them. If you don't have the original T56 flywheel cover plate you can use a T5 cover plate with a little modification of the hole for the starter and needing to drill 2 holes on the FWC plate. Or, you can use the existing holes on the FWC plate and just drill 2 new holes on the BH. Also, you may want to change the front and rear seals of the tranny. You don't want these leaking after installing a fresh clutch package. Lastly, pour the ATF into the shifter base hole before installing the shifter. It's much easier this way. You may want to lower the front end of the car and raise the rear to make sure the fluid gets into the gear box. I hope this helps. golfsavage
Last edited by golfsavage; 01-02-2009 at 02:11 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Ok so FINALLY the pedals are in. My dremel helped alot. I Cut the hole for the master cyl using a hole saw with my mighty little electric drill thats just about given up. I massaged the hole into a slight oval, and the master fit in very nicely. I sprayed it all with a bit of tremclad rust paint and covered it rubberized undercoating to seal it. That part of the engine bay never sees moisture so i should be ok.
To the driver side of the brake booster, is where i placed the reservoir. I took off the little bracket thats held on with 2 10mm bolts,moved the wiring over that was already on there, and fit the reservoir onto the bracket, and put it back on. Some new holes were necessary to drill, but it was really easy, 5 mins.
The new starter is bolted in place, no issues there, i just dont know how to wire it. Its layed out slightly differently. The old starter had 3 points. One fat in the middle, and two skinny to either side, I had a bunch of wires going to the big fat one in the middle, and a purple wire going to the driver side prong. (im sure this is wrong), but i havent had any issues with it so im gonna stick with it for now. How do i translate this into LT1 starter wiring? (two fat prongs on either side, and one skinny in the middle).
Hole is cut for the shifter, everything looks to be in place.
Tommorow, gonna put the flywheel on, mock up my old clutch setup (for practice), put in the T56 torque arm bracket and tackle the wiring. When the new clucth arrives, i am ready to put it all back together and start it for a "lifted" test run.
One more question, does the throwout bearing need to be greased before install??? Do i have to pack it, or lubricate the shaft or anything?
Online170,
I hope your T56 swap is working for you. FYI: The throw out bearing is a sealed unit and does not need to be packed with grease. I would suggest wiping off the oily residue the bearing is shipped in. You don't want that splashing on your new clutch disc. Now, you may want to apply a very thin coat of High Temp grease inside of the sleeve of the bearing that slides on the front load bearing cap. Also, apply a thin coat of the same grease on the "shaft" of the front load bearing cap. Again, not too much. Also, apply a very thin coat of grease on the tip of the input shaft that inserts into the pilot bearing. You may also want to clean the splines of the input shaft just to make sure all the dirt, grime, and sludge are removed, which will help with inserting the input shaft into the clutch disc. If you have time it may be helpful to buy two bolts 4 inches in length that will thread into the two bolt holes on the passenger and drive side of your engine. These bolts can be purchased at any hardware store. All you have to do is remove the heads of the bolts and installed them, which serve as dowels or "guides" for you to quickly align and securely bolt your transmission on. Plus, you can always reuse them. Another option, is to install the bellhousing (BH) onto your engine and purchase 2 bolts that will fastened to your bellhousing and use them as "dowels" to guide the tranny into the bellhousing. This will also preclude the chances of damaging the tip of your input shaft and clutch disc. Before installing the tranny I would also suggest bleeding the clutch hydraulics if it needs to be bled. It's much easier to do this with the tranny out of the way. Also, install the flywheel cover plate (FWC plate) before you fully install the bellhousing. Because the bolts that secure the cover plate are difficult to tighten with the BH is fully installed. There's hardly any room to get your 10mm wrench over the bolts nearest the engine block to tighten them. If you don't have the original T56 flywheel cover plate you can use a T5 cover plate with a little modification of the hole for the starter and needing to drill 2 holes on the FWC plate. Or, you can use the existing holes on the FWC plate and just drill 2 new holes on the BH. Also, you may want to change the front and rear seals of the tranny. You don't want these leaking after installing a fresh clutch package. Lastly, pour the ATF into the shifter base hole before installing the shifter. It's much easier this way. You may want to lower the front end of the car and raise the rear to make sure the fluid gets into the gear box. I hope this helps. golfsavage
ok, so I F'd up. First I bought a new slave/master combo from GM. Cut the master rod and tapped the cylinder side of the rod, turned out great. Started on the pedal side of the rod, ended up going on crooked (How I missed this I don't know). Didn't worry, just went out to the shop and got my T5 master and used that end. Turned out great. So far so good, I went to secure the two ends with the coupler and lock nuts, and as I was sinching down the cylinder-side nut, the damn rod snapped! Apparently the nut was directly over there the hollow point starts. I think I may be alright though, but I wanted some more opinions. The top cylinder is my original T5 master cylinder (cut exactly like the pic Alloy posted up) and the T56 end that I F'd up, essentially it's what I should end up with just without the coupler and all that. The bottom cylinder is the new T56 cylinder showing where it broke off and all that
Here's the new T56 cylinder assembled to what I feel is a safe amount of engaged threads, probably put some light amount of loctite. Again, compared to the appropriate length above
One more, here's a close up of where it snapped off at. I know I'm a dumbass, I overtightened it, and I should have moved the coupler more towards the pedal side, but what's done is done, so what yall think?
i did the same exact thing. my solution was to thread the master side as far bac k as possible. i took the pedal end to home depot with the plastic bushing that goes in the center of it, and found a threaded loop (dont know the proper name) that fit the closest, which happened to have 1/4 size threads. i think it was 4 inches long, but i dont remember the loop size. the loop however was slightly larger than the plastic bushing so to take up the play i took electrical tape and cut it in half width wise and wrapped the plastic bushing about 2 or 3 times. it made a snug fit for the loop to sit on. i then went to the local hardware store (home depot didnt have it) and got a coupler that was 3/8 on one side and 1/4 on the other. the master end of the rod still had a hollow spot in it and when i screwed the coupler and 1/4 size loop on, the 1/4 size threads went right inside the 3/8 hollow thread of the master rod. i have had this on the car for a few months now, and while i havnt had a whole lot of miles put on it, i have hit it hard a few times and nothing broke. by the way, the coupler and new 1/4 threaded loop only cost a combined total of about $5. that sure beats a new master and slave for $120 or $150
if i need to be more specific or am not making myself clear please just say so and i will explain differently.
I dont know if im going to do that mod, I think im going to put it all togather (which should be soon) and see how it feels. Worse comes to worse, ill just have to pull it apart again. well see.
After reading this whole thread...I have a few Q's as I work up my own T-56 swap.
1. Alloy - what kind of fitment issues did you have with the Alston SFC's and the Spohn crossmember? I was planning on buying the Spohn T-56 crossmember and adjustable torque arm combo.
2. Am I right in understanding that the pedal height engagement issue happens only if mixing 3rd gen pedals with 4th gen hydraulics or vice versa? I was planning on using 4th gen pedals with 4th gen hydraulics and the rest of a stock T-5 setup with my LS1 T-56 swap. Or should I be planning to use 3rd gen pedals with 3rd gen hydraulics to avoid this issue?
__________________ Adam
-on hiatus- 88 GTA- 406/700R4, HSR, Pro 220cc alum heads-Griffin- Victor Jr. WP
-91 RS/Z28 - 350 TPI, T-5, 3.73 posi, DFI to 730 swap, SLP CAI/Full Exh, etc
i did the same exact thing. my solution was to thread the master side as far bac k as possible. i took the pedal end to home depot with the plastic bushing that goes in the center of it, and found a threaded loop (dont know the proper name) that fit the closest, which happened to have 1/4 size threads. i think it was 4 inches long, but i dont remember the loop size. the loop however was slightly larger than the plastic bushing so to take up the play i took electrical tape and cut it in half width wise and wrapped the plastic bushing about 2 or 3 times. it made a snug fit for the loop to sit on. i then went to the local hardware store (home depot didnt have it) and got a coupler that was 3/8 on one side and 1/4 on the other. the master end of the rod still had a hollow spot in it and when i screwed the coupler and 1/4 size loop on, the 1/4 size threads went right inside the 3/8 hollow thread of the master rod. i have had this on the car for a few months now, and while i havnt had a whole lot of miles put on it, i have hit it hard a few times and nothing broke. by the way, the coupler and new 1/4 threaded loop only cost a combined total of about $5. that sure beats a new master and slave for $120 or $150
if i need to be more specific or am not making myself clear please just say so and i will explain differently.
you have any pics? I'm not 100% sure I get what your talking about with the bushing. I'm concerned about trying to thread the master side of the rid considering it's hollow. I dunno, I may end up just trying it like this, feels pretty strong, and I think in the end it's about 3/4", maybe 1" shorter than the factory rod. I remember seeing someone on here chopping off 1" so maybe i'm OK.
Then again, I could always get my buddy to weld up everything to ensure it will NEVER come apart
no i dont have any pics, but i can tell you when i broke mine i put it back together anyway and it was hard to engage the tranny into gear and the car lurched as soon as i moved the clutch off the floor a tiny bit.
seeing as how i dont have pics of how i did it, i found some to use for better clarification. the eye loop i am talking about was about 4 inches long, and the threads were 1/4. i used this size because it was the closest fir to sliding over the plastic bushing found on the clutch pedal. i then took the bushing and wrapped it with electrical tape once or twice. this was to take the play out of the eye loop so that when put onto the plastic bushing on the pedal it would not move around. i already had the master rod threaded from trying this the first time, and the eye loop came with threads on it. i then used a coupler, but instead of having 3/8 thread on both sides, one side had 3/8 thread and the other had 1/4 thread. i put the 3/8 threaded side of the coupler onto the installed master rod, and put the eye loop into the 1/4 threaded side of the coupler. then i installed the bushing, and slipped the eye loop onto the bushing on the pedal. i then put the retainer clip onto the pedal and that was it.
below is a picture of an example of what i mean when i say eye loop. it has a loop on one end and threads on the other. this is the closest i could find by searching through google images. the other is a picture i made in paint that will hopefully help with clarification.
well what if I used a stock T5 master cylinder? Or better yet, can someone take an overall measurement of what is considered the "perfect" length of the rod? I'm pretty confident that my rod as-is right now will hole up, but it's pretty much unadjustable. So if I have to adjust it out a little, I can do so now and then have my buddy weld the rod up for me to make 100% sure it's not gonna come apart on me
Can anyone take a measurement for what the rod should be for ideal pedal height? I've got mine ready to go in (slave and MC ***.), but I want to get mine welded up before I put it in, and I need to know the measurement(s)
I was reading your forum and i was wondering if yall could help me out i have a 92 camaro rs with the 3.1 v6 and a auto trans and i want to put a 5 speed in it. i know a guy that has a tranny out of an 80 modle s10 and he said i could have any thing i need for the swap. do you think it will work and what all would i need ?
I was reading your forum and i was wondering if yall could help me out i have a 92 camaro rs with the 3.1 v6 and a auto trans and i want to put a 5 speed in it. i know a guy that has a tranny out of an 80 modle s10 and he said i could have any thing i need for the swap. do you think it will work and what all would i need ?
This is a T56 swap thread only. You should take your question the the V6 forum, or the general Transmissions and Drivetrain forum and not the T56 thread. And before you ask a question, please do a search on the subject.
So the only problem with the linkage is the ability to disengage the clutch much further than needed, right? Wouldn't it be easier (and less risky) to make a bump-stop for the clutch pedal so it can't travel too close to the floor? Then just adjust the start switch accordingly?
I think another part of the "problem" is the fact that the pedal sits up higher than stock. I still haven't gotten my clutch installed yet so I cannot say. But I remember someone saying that they wanted more of a stock feel/look, and this does both
Since you guys are goin through all this trouble of modifying the clutch pedal i thought id ask;
When you say the clutch is engaging too HIGH, what is this relative to? ie: what did you drive before that engaged perfectly?
I think this high engagement business is a trait of hydraulic clutches. I drove a cavalier the other day and the high engagement seem SUPER amplified. Meaning out of the 30 or so cm it travel, the engagement is only in the 5-8 cm range. Very finicky.
I also may be switching from a T56 to a T5 with 3rd gen pedals, but the same hydraulics. Ill let you know if i noticed a difference.
well I just finished my t56 swap, I used 4th gen pedals, and everything seems about right. This is a pretty straight forward swap, hardest part was the clutch fork IMO. Wiring is easy, just takes some time. If I can do it again, with my exhaust, id use a skulte x-member to get some extra ground clearence. Im just going to drive the car, and modifiy the xmember so I can some extra ground clreance with my exhaust.
Transmission:
Rockland gear T56, Ram aluminium flywheel, SPEC Stage 2+ clutch, GM slave and master. Rear End:
3:73's, other then that stock until she blows.
Other Mods:
Energy Suspension bushings, Hotchkis SFC, Hotchkis rear LCAs, Front vented rotors, New Ball Joints, New Tie-Rods, New Center Link, New Idler Arm, All Brakes are new, Struts/Shocks. Big Block Fiberglass Hood. Griffen 19X31 Radiator W/ custom shoud. Spohn Trans Crossmember with Adjustable Torque Arm, Spohn Driveshaft. 4th Gen leather Seats. M/T ET street tires....
Can someone tell me how you bleed a T56 hydraulic setup?
Im just a bit of a newbie when it comes to manual transmissions. Which is the master cyl and which is the slave? Master is up near the firewall and slave is by the transmission? Or is there something else to it? Either way, I have a feeling that after my hydraulics have been carelessly thrown around the garage for a year or so, that maybe there's some air in it, but I'm at a complete loss as to how to bleed it... but maybe it's fine? I have no idea? But I see nothing resembling a bleeder screw anywhere so.... ? Maybe Im not looking hard enough?
I know there is info on this here somewhere, but I'll run through it real quick for you.
The easiest way is to have all the hydraulics hooked up, but leave the slave hanging. Make sure the master is full and then push the slave rod all the way in, then SLOWLY release it. This will push the air up through the line into the master and pull fluid back into the slave. Then check the master and refill, and repeat the process of pushing the rod all the way in and releasing it. My hydraulics were totally dry and it only took two times and it was completely bled. Worked perfectly.
If I dont wire up the reverse lockout solenoid, does it default to open, or closed?
Im having a hard time finding reverse... but I think I did once. But if that solenoid is in the way anyway, then maybe I just found 5th and didnt realize it.
Reverse is all the way to the right and up. If the solenoid is not hooked up then reverse is locked out. You can still get into reverse if you push the handle to the right hard enough to overpower the spring. Just hook the solenoid up to the switch on the break pedal. It work so much better then.
Is anyone here running a stock torque arm with a tail housing converted to a mechanical speedometer on their T56? I had a spohn torque arm and I’m trying to convert back to stock, but the torque arm is very close to hitting the speedometer cable? Check out the picture in this thread and let me know what you think.
I've got fluid leaking out in the interior side of my clutch master cylinder assembly. It's seeping out right where the clutch rod goes into the .... black part.
Is this, as I suspect, something worth replacing the hydraulics over?
Also, a vid of me learning to drive the damned thing... Maybe it will motivate someone... I dont know.
Fresh motor, and a swapped in 9-bolt and T56 at the same time. Nothing in the entire drivetrain is the same as when this car rolled off the assembly line except the driveshaft. Even teh wheels are new.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; 06-07-2009 at 08:47 PM.
I've got fluid leaking out in the interior side of my clutch master cylinder assembly. It's seeping out right where the clutch rod goes into the .... black part.
Is this, as I suspect, something worth replacing the hydraulics over?
Also, a vid of me learning to drive the damned thing... Maybe it will motivate someone... I dont know.
Fresh motor, and a swapped in 9-bolt and T56 at the same time. Nothing in the entire drivetrain is the same as when this car rolled off the assembly line except the driveshaft. Even teh wheels are new.
Your going to need new hydraulics. I bet your clutch reservoir is low on fluid too.
DEFINATELY worth replacing. You will get more and more air into it over time, and evetually it will "fail" on you. You dont wanna be at a red light and learn you have no more clutch...
Would air in the lines cause the clutch to slip? or would itj ust cause it to not disengage properly?
The pedal will basically become useless.
Pedal = Clutch disengage. So yes, it would not disengage anymore. So if youre at a red light in neutral, you cant get into gear without bucking the thing.
Here's my T56 master.
I just shortened the rod to suit the 3rd gen pedals when in the full up position. I did this about 10 years ago with no issues. All the hydraulics are stock 4th gen other than the drill mod to reduce the flow restriction.
I've had 3 clutches in the car, 1 used to start, 1 LT4 unit, and the LT4 PP with the McLeod Friction (7200rpm?) disk. All have engaged a little on the high side, but work fine. If it bugs you, get the McLeoad adjustable hydraulics ($$$).
You can always shim out the slave at the bellhousing if you're worried about getting full disengagement and a little less preload on the fork...
I have a dumb question, probably been answered. But i just bought a 95 LT1 6 speed car with no trans. But im using the pedals, slave cylinder and a well all of it going in my 85. I was wondering with all this can i use it for a 5speed till i find a 6 speed. also the motor has the 6speed flywheel and throwout bearing. can i keep any of this for the 5speed? any help appreciated.
__________________ Drivetrain NONE
---In Loving memory of my best friend and cousin DAVE SARGENT JR---
sorry you couldn't enjoy what you tried to help me finish.
I have a dumb question, probably been answered. But i just bought a 95 LT1 6 speed car with no trans. But im using the pedals, slave cylinder and a well all of it going in my 85. I was wondering with all this can i use it for a 5speed till i find a 6 speed. also the motor has the 6speed flywheel and throwout bearing. can i keep any of this for the 5speed? any help appreciated.
i have a hurst shifter but i lost the wires that connect 2 it it is the wires with the clip at the end and it clips in to the bottom of the shifter i wanted 2 know if anyone knows where i can buy one if possible? thanks
