Transmissions and DrivetrainNeed help with your trans? Problems with your axle?
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On the 4L60E, GM has the updated 3-4 clutch pack with the thicker steels, and I was wondering if the same parts will intechange with the 700's. I have rebuilt a few 4L60E's, but no 700's yet (Only been doing tranny's for a few months now, and most have been chryslers!)
Just curious, because I think I like that approah better than the aftermarket packs with 9 clutches to burn up.
TIA
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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads sitting on it look good!)
Yes it will fit and it is great in my opinion. You will need to replace the whole stack up though, including the five finger apply ring, pressure plates, clutches and steels. At this point I prefer the Borg Warner paper frictions in this location. The reason I say this is that you can get a kit from GM with all of the pieces in it but they will have the later frictions. They will work fine and cut down on headaches in ordering them but that is my preference. Get the five 'helper' springs too. The ones that slide into the steels and put pressure on the top pressure plate. They help keep the clutches from applying due to residual oil at higher RPM's (up to @5500 they work). I prefer to use the TransGo parts myself. If you get the Reprogramming Kit it includes a couple of sets of special springs that keep this problem from happening up to @7800 RPM! The kit also fixes the primary reasons for the 3-4 burnups, band burnups, forward burnups, etc.
As you can see there are several opinions on this. I prefer using the late Borg Warner (8) Hi-Energy 3-4 clutches, and 7 steels along with a .128 bottom pressure plate and a selective top pressure plate to achieve .040-.055 3-4 clutch pack clearence. You will have to install the Trans-go Hi-Rev spring pack here (as referred to by transfixleo) to keep the 3-4 clutches from getting into trouble (accidental apply in the top end of 1st or 2nd gear, anything over 5,000 rpm). I have been using this clutch set-up for a few years now in all my 10-11-12 second street/strip units. Depending on horsepower, I will substitute the 7 steels with 7 Kolene steels (they will handle more heat, but the shifts are slightly more agressive). Problems with this have been just about nil. The Alto 9 clutch setup is ok on HD units that see torque but not much horsepower or rpm. Back in 1996 I told Gil at Trans-Go that I came up with this idea back to use the standard thickness BW Hi-Energy clutches (8 at .080 thickness) along with the .060-.080 steels, much to my surprise, Gil told me he had been doing this for a short time and that this should prove to be superior to the Alto 9 clutch setup, and from my limited results at that time proved he was right.
Hope This Helps!!!
I am still undecided but not for the reasons you might expect. At first when I started seeing the High Energies coming in they were almost always perfect, as far as I could see. The problem came when I ran into problems on other units that were using high energy friction material and had problems that I found no reason for but as a hunch I changed to conventional material and the problems went away. Again, the friction surfaces looked PERFECT! That is the sole reason for my hesitation. I am suspecting that if there is a minor problem that the surface doesn't burn but rather glazes. I do use them on certain units though (the Chrysler 604/606 for example) that have proven to me to need them. Since I have had no problems with the tan B/W Fric's I am satisfied to use them. I will however remember your input on this as I formulate my opinion on this application.
[This message has been edited by transfixleo (edited May 30, 2001).]
the tranny in my 86 (modified 700r) is NO MATCH for the tranny in my 98!!!
<font face="Arial"><a href="http://www.geocities.com/battstas/cars/transams.html" target="_blank"><font size="2">Click here to see my Trans Ams</font></a> <font size="1">1986 Trans Am WS6 (#40,977 of 48,870)- Silver, 305TPI, 16" charcoal gray cross-lace wheels. 171,500 miles, LB9, 700R4.</font></font>
<img src="http://www.fbody.com/members/98TransAm/86/1986.jpg" width="200" height="80">
<font face="Arial" size="2" color="#FF0000"><marquee width="201" height="18" scrollamount="3" bgcolor="#000000">CURRENTLY: the '86 was rear-ended in Austin (about 3K worth of damage), and is undergoing repairs. </marquee></font>
I may have to look into the High Energies for the 604's and 42LE's that I do in the future (I do quite a bunch of the pieces of crap!)
I'm very glad to hear all this input on the subject thoug, along with the reasoning behind it.
I am also a little confused about the helper springs, as some things I have read (ATSG manual) reccomend leaving them out. I did on one 4L60E that I rebuilt, and put them in on the next, and I didn't really notice anything, and I thrash on them a little before I say they're done.
one more thing, does TransGo do complete overhaul kits with the components that I specify? I'm looking at putting about 430 horsepower in front of the one going in my car, and I will be very particular about the components that go in it!
Tahnks for all your great information!
And, Tom, yes the 4L60E's are awesome, and the electronics do wonders.
------------------
Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads sitting on it look good!)
If you get the High Energies, get the Borg Warners and not the Raybestos'. What do you mean pieces of crap?!! I happen to be a huge fan of these units when they have the inherent problems fixed. Have you used the TrasnGo Shift Kit in one of these? I did a SK install on a guys 606, in car (it had 130K at the time) and last I heard he was pushing 180K and it shifted great!
TranGo doesn't make full kits but just speicify that you want a TransTec O/H Kit. They are the best. As for the helper springs that info from ATSG was some knee-jerk tech(Gee, the 3-4's burned so it must be those springs!). Trouble is it sounds good. Those were first only installed in the high rev type units (Iroc/Vette) since they were there to address a problem where at higher RPM's residual oil in the drum would spin outward and actually push the 3-4 piston on when revving high in 1st or 2nd gear. Even if it was just a little bit, enough to just drag the clutches it would prematurely wear them out. Now if you go over 5500 it can still happen and that is where the TransGo Reprogramming Kit has those special springs to keep them off at even higher RPM's (7800). If you ever put in one of their 400 Reprogramming Kit's they have killer springs for the directs for the same reason. According to popular myth, these springs shoud make for a sloppy 2-3 shift. Nothing could be further from the truth though! You can get rubber on the 2-3 shift with even with these installed (they do have a true patented Dual Feed for 3rd that helps too).
I actually like those 604's now, I have gotten pretty good at overhauling them, and I can make good money on them!
We've been getting kits from Dacco. They have TransTec paper and rubber kit, and sealing rings, B/W, and sometimes Raybestos clutches, and Alto steels quite often.
Well, now I have enough stuff to ponder on this to be really dangerous now!
Maybe I'll put all this stuff in the 700 that I'll put in the S-10.
------------------
Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand. (Man, those Fast-Burn heads look good, (just sitting there doing nothing!LOL))
