Transmissions and DrivetrainNeed help with your trans? Problems with your axle?
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I'm in the process of tearing down my T5 for a rebuild. I'm having a lot of trouble removing 5th gear from the output shaft (see picture) all I've read would indicate that it should easily pull off, but it won't budge. I've tried prying from the back side of the gear(carefully) with no luck. Does anyone have any tips/tricks to remove it? I don't have access to a shop press and would rather not buy an enormous puller. I know my options are limited, but I figured I'd ask.
It should slide, but the more inference it has to the output shaft, the better.. Get a brass rod or brass hammer and start tapping it towards the case, to try and loosen it.. (Tap close to the output shaft, not out by the gears) If tapping doesn't help, WD40 can help sometimes, but if all else fails, you may have to get a long-arm set of gear pullers and work it off.
I just finished rebuilding mine, ran into similar problems. Your best best is to remove the brass blocker ring everything on the large gear first including that gear. On mine, the gears were tight enough that I was unable to pull the smaller one off the output shaft without removing the larger one. The larger one didn't just fall off for me either, but you have a larger/better area to pry it off without risking damage to anything.
Well. I removed the 5th gear off the countershaft to get some room to work with behind the output shaft 5th gear giving me trouble. Still won't budge, I tried with a small pry bar between the bearing and gear, slipped a few times, put a few bevels in the leading edges of the gear teeth(still acceptable per the rebuild manual gear inspection limits luckily, as I found new 5th gear sets to be expensive) but it was enough to discourage me from trying again.
I bought the gear puller kit from harbor freight. There are some L shaped brackets as part of the kit I think I can fit behind the gears. I'm going to lengthen them with some threaded rod to the appropriate length where I can uses the end of the output shaft as a base to pull from. Not the sturdiest fixture, but I'm hoping that since there is no designed interference between the gear and shaft that I can get it to pop off.
Before you do that, I would try a bearing separator. I bought one from Harbor Freight for my rebuild and it worked great for removing everything from the shafts. I would be worried about a puller slipping and messing up the splines on the end of the output shaft or the teeth on the 5th gear. Maybe its just me, but I've never had much luck using pullers. I know I didn't have half the problems that you are when I removed that gear.
That Puller is awesome. I attached a pic of what I ordered. It comes with a bearing separator too. I've never used one so I'll have to figure out exactly how it works, but picturing it in my head, it doesn't look like there is enough room between the trans case and 5th gear to fit the bearing separator. It would be nice if it fit though. If not I will use the silver pullers behind the gear, couple some threaded rod to them so that I can get back to the end of the shaft, and then try and pull it off that way.
I'll take a pic to show what I mean when it gets here (10 days )
Alright, well I got my tools and was not able to successfully pull 5th gear off on my own. My "puller extensions" kept failing during the attempted removal. Next time, I'll have to use something stiffer than 5/16 threaded rod. Anyways, went to a tranny shop and with their shop press behind my gear puller, 5th gear came off. So, despite how the manual reads, it is definitely an interference fit onto the output shaft.
Considering that I don't have a press, I was planning on using heat by way of my oven at 300-350 degrees to install all of my interference fit parts (syncro hubs, bearing Inner races, and 5th gear...) Has anyone else tried this method?
Don't panic yet ! the whole counter shaft will come out and the mainshaft does come out of the case with fifth gear still on it . Then you can press the gear off with a bearing splitter . If you get too energetic with the brass drift you'll chip teeth . I know this from personal experience . When I got my T5 the 5th gear snap ring had broken and the gear moved on the mainshaft . As it moved by the driven gear it cleaned off a bunch of the teeth . When you reassemble it you'll probably have to press the gear on again .
Just an update. The Tranny is back together and properly shimmed. 5th gear was definitely an interference fit. Maybe there was a design change made in the later years of it's production. In any case, I had to get it pressed back onto the shaft. All other bearings and the 3-4 syncro hub, I was able to instal by heating them.
The only issue I encountered during assembly was during the measurement for the input shaft bearing shim, measured dimensions were not making sense. According to the formula for shim measurement in the assembly manual, I needed a negative sized shim. This was inferring that something wasn't seated properly. Luckily, I was able to pull the input shaft out without loosing any parts, verify that that bearing was fully seated, and tap on the 3-4 syncro hub with a hammer and large socket, as that was the only other part that could have screwed up the measurement. It ended up not being seated by .024". After knocking it into place, everything installed perfectly and I'm very excited to install it and go for a drive.
Just an update. The Tranny is back together and properly shimmed. 5th gear was definitely an interference fit. Maybe there was a design change made in the later years of it's production. In any case, I had to get it pressed back onto the shaft. All other bearings and the 3-4 syncro hub, I was able to instal by heating them.
The only issue I encountered during assembly was during the measurement for the input shaft bearing shim, measured dimensions were not making sense. According to the formula for shim measurement in the assembly manual, I needed a negative sized shim. This was inferring that something wasn't seated properly. Luckily, I was able to pull the input shaft out without loosing any parts, verify that that bearing was fully seated, and tap on the 3-4 syncro hub with a hammer and large socket, as that was the only other part that could have screwed up the measurement. It ended up not being seated by .024". After knocking it into place, everything installed perfectly and I'm very excited to install it and go for a drive.
Mine must have been really loose or I just got lucky or something. I didn't have to press anything on or off. I did use a large hammer and blocks of wood to tap some of the gears/synchro hubs on and off, but that was it. My fifth gear fell off the shaft as I was tapping on the other end to remove the 3-4 synchro hub.
I had the same problem with the 3-4 synchro on reassembly as well. I didn't get it far enough onto the shaft either. I noticed it when I wasn't able to turn the input shaft by hand once the retainer was bolted down. How did you measure for the shim? I'm having a hard time getting a consistent reading with the depth gauge on my digital caliper.
I used a 0-1" dial indicator with a .001 increments. I had the dial indicator mounted to an adjustable stand, which was clamped to the sealing surface of the transmission case on the input shaft side. I took a reading with the bearing OR seated, and then rotated the stand arm to get a reading off of the case where the retainer mounts flush. The difference between these two readings is the distance between bearing OR and case. A depth mic would have been the best tool for this, but I did not want to buy one. To compensate for potential inaccuracies, I took a reading from bearing, the case, then the bearing again to ensure that by moving the indicator I had not thrown my measurement system off. I did this several times with readings within .002 of eachother, then I took the average.
I used the same methodology for the 2nd measurement required on the bearing retainer, except the adjustable stand was on the floor, and I moved the bearing retainer as appropriate to get the measurements I needed, once again repeating for consistency, and taking an average.
Finally, I made sure that the calculated shim size made sense and was somewhat comparable to what was in there before. With that sanity check, and measuring end play after assembly, I was confident that I had selected the appropriate shim.
But yes, before the 3-4 hub was not seated, there was an uncomfortable amount of drag on the input shaft which was a huge red flag. I'm just glad I was able to seat it with the rest of the transmission still assembled.
I used a 0-1" dial indicator with a .001 increments. I had the dial indicator mounted to an adjustable stand, which was clamped to the sealing surface of the transmission case on the input shaft side. I took a reading with the bearing OR seated, and then rotated the stand arm to get a reading off of the case where the retainer mounts flush. The difference between these two readings is the distance between bearing OR and case. A depth mic would have been the best tool for this, but I did not want to buy one. To compensate for potential inaccuracies, I took a reading from bearing, the case, then the bearing again to ensure that by moving the indicator I had not thrown my measurement system off. I did this several times with readings within .002 of eachother, then I took the average.
I used the same methodology for the 2nd measurement required on the bearing retainer, except the adjustable stand was on the floor, and I moved the bearing retainer as appropriate to get the measurements I needed, once again repeating for consistency, and taking an average.
Finally, I made sure that the calculated shim size made sense and was somewhat comparable to what was in there before. With that sanity check, and measuring end play after assembly, I was confident that I had selected the appropriate shim.
But yes, before the 3-4 hub was not seated, there was an uncomfortable amount of drag on the input shaft which was a huge red flag. I'm just glad I was able to seat it with the rest of the transmission still assembled.
I didn't think of using the dial indicator. I have an adjustable stand for mine, but didn't have much luck swinging the arm back and forth while trying to measure piston depth on my engine. The arm kept moving on me. I'll have to try it again on the T5 when I get it back together. I found a crack in the case and just got my new case.
You're lucky you got the 3-4 hub seated that easily. I had to remove my entire mainshaft to fix it.
I didn't think of using the dial indicator. I have an adjustable stand for mine, but didn't have much luck swinging the arm back and forth while trying to measure piston depth on my engine. The arm kept moving on me. I'll have to try it again on the T5 when I get it back together. I found a crack in the case and just got my new case.
You're lucky you got the 3-4 hub seated that easily. I had to remove my entire mainshaft to fix it.
Wow. I guess I am lucky. I would have hated to scrape off all that fresh RTV. Using the dial indiator was by no means easy. It probably took around the order of 1.5 hrs to get measurements I was comfortable with. The base has to be mounted to the case in a specific way to get the swing right on the indicator so it can contact both the bearing race and case. Also, tweaking the tightness of the base so you could rotate it without screwing up the measurement was also a major PIA. But it is doable at the very least. FYI, the cheapest depth mic i found on harbor freight was $60. For reference, I ended up putting a .025 shim in.
For a depth mic I was using the digital caliper I got at Harbor Freight for $13. There is a rod that slides out the end as you open the jaws. For most jobs, it works just fine. It just doesn't quite fit on the case for this.
Actually, I am going on my third time RTV'ing this transmission. First time was the initial reassembly, 2nd was the 3-4 hub problem, now I'm swapping the new case in so I'm doing it a 3rd time. I'm so glad I bought one of those gasket removal kits for my die grinder!!
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