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Old 10-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #1
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Engine: 305ci DIY twin T3 50 trim
Transmission: 199x DIY 4L60E

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No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

My 700R4 has been missing 2nd and 4th gear for about a year now. I have been easy on it during the 1-3 shift as to not burn the clutches.
I think the 2-4 band is not being applied and therefore no 2nd or 3rd gear. If I put it in manual 2nd it acts like neutral. I want to order some parts before I pull the servo cover. I was going to order the servo and springs.

What are the odds that the rod and band are broke and not the servo and/or spring? I am hoping it is the servo and spring so that I don't have to pull the trans.

Thanks
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:25 PM   #2
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

Playing with the servo won't help, you'll have to replace the band.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:24 PM   #3
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

I was afraid of that. I didn't want to really pull the transmission. After some reading it appears a broken 2-4 band is pretty common. Is it possible I can see if the band is broke if I drop the trans. pan? I am thinking it is time to ditch this 700R4 and build a 4L60E with some decent parts in it. Thanks for the help.

EDIT: The trans. was a fresh rebuild and has about 10K miles on it. I think the two SAAB turbos I put on the 305ci TPI had a lot to do with the band problem. Just a little history on the shape of the transmission

Last edited by junkcltr; 10-14-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:06 AM   #4
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

It's not that the band broke, it's that the friction material (on the band) has failed. So you won't see anything until you remove the front pump assembly.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:25 AM   #5
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcltr View Post
I was afraid of that. I didn't want to really pull the transmission. After some reading it appears a broken 2-4 band is pretty common. Is it possible I can see if the band is broke if I drop the trans. pan? I am thinking it is time to ditch this 700R4 and build a 4L60E with some decent parts in it. Thanks for the help.

EDIT: The trans. was a fresh rebuild and has about 10K miles on it. I think the two SAAB turbos I put on the 305ci TPI had a lot to do with the band problem. Just a little history on the shape of the transmission


The 4L60E has the same band, servo, drum arrangement as the 700. Swapping transmission types will not help.
Band failure is not very common overall.
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:33 AM   #6
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

I disagree, I've lost 4 bands in the last 6 years.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:13 AM   #7
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

I know it is the 2-4 band not applying. I do not know the reason why. It could be the band is broke, friction broke, apply servo broke. Most think it is the friction material failing.

I picked up a used broken 1995 4L60E that "just stopped working when I put it in gear one morning". They said it had about 100K miles on it.

I looked at bulkpart.com to piece together a kit. Then I looked at the pro built automatic kits: https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/home.php?cat=22. The vehicle weighs 5000lbs and does some towing. The 305ci TPI-thirdgen twin turbo engine make about 450 ft-lb of torque and 350 FWHP. When it blows I will install a 350ci TPI turbo setup making about 600 ft-lb of torque and 450 FWHP. I would like to keep a stock stall converter speed or no higher than 400 RPM over stock.

1) Go with a Pro Built Automatic kit for the 4L60E or piece one together?
2) If Pro Built Automatic kit, then which kit?
3) Where can I find a stock to 400 RPM higher stall converter handling 500-600 ft-lbs and up to 500 FWHP?

EDIT: This truck is 4x4 and does towing and goes to the 1/4 mile track to race sometimes. Most of the time it is just a normal daily driver.

Last edited by junkcltr; 10-21-2009 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:09 AM   #8
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

I know nothing about what Pro-Built offers, But I do know that Bowtie Overdrives offers a 700R-4 rated to 620 ft-lbs of engine torque. So getting a 700R-4 to hold that much is possible.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:13 PM   #9
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla the Fun View Post
I disagree, I've lost 4 bands in the last 6 years.
That is unlucky.I have built over 400 in the past 5 years, and I think 5 or 6 had band failures.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:50 PM   #10
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

This thread was closed, as it is not 3rd gen related.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:16 PM   #11
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

After consideration, I was a bit hasty closing this. Although it is a 4wd truck, usefull tech info can benefit all.
My apologies to the OP. Please carry on.
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Old 10-26-2009, 03:56 PM   #12
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

What timing. The transmission finally lost 3rd gear on Saturday. I had to limp it home in 1st gear. Throw it in first and rev it to 4K rpm to get moving and then shift into 3rd which was like neutral. It had started to slip going into 3rd and within 8-10 miles it had no 3rd at all.

Anyone have a recommendation on which rebuild video is better?

1) http://store.boxwrench.net/GM-4L60E-...-DVD_p_32.html
2) http://www.technicalvideos.com/

I have the TH350 video from http://www.technicalvideos.com/ and it seems fine, but doesn't do much on measuring parts to see if they are out of tolerance. He says if it is worn too much then don't use it, but never says what too much it.
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:12 AM   #13
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

you've got big ones for sure. ha ha
Even I can't deny how determined you are. Knock it out and make a video with a burnout.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:03 AM   #14
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

The technical video is pretty good, but stay the hell away from the other one. I had two pages of what was wrong as far as information that was offered in that video, tried to help the guy, but he wouldn't listen to "anything" I said. I sent the video back. I guess if you build a couple of these, that makes you an expert.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:57 PM   #15
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

Thanks for recommendation. I ordered the technical video. If my 4L60E rebuild works out then I have a 4L80E, 4L60E, and 700R4 I would like to do for my other trucks/cars.

I read on LS1Tech that you include cut teflon seals for the input shaft. I was reading the ATSG and it calls for non-cut seals only. I have the ATSG 4L60E manual and the ATSG 4L60E update manual. The pro street kit has 9 clutches for the 3-4 pack. Are the steels still thick steels? Just worried about over heating the steels after reading the update manual.
Your kit seems like the most complete kit I could find. The only thing I question is the 9 clutch 3-4 pack and cut seals when I compare to other stuff I have read.
I don't really know what I want or need at this point. I am trying to learn as much as I can before disassembly. I have been reading about the rebuild off and on over the past 1-2 years to get familiar with the operation and parts.

Thank you
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:54 AM   #16
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

The version of input shaft seals that I use are the solid ones with a step cut for easier installation. You do not want to use "scarf" cut seals here. The steels are the .080" and .060" ones when you use nine 4L65E Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches for the 3-4 clutch pack. The steels have never been the problem in most cases. The clutch material and the clutches ability to hold oil is what will determine the life of the clutch, along with having more apply pressure and more total clutch (surface) area. If the clutch does not hold enough oil, then during the shift it cannot dissipate the heat fast enough to "cool" itself. More on this later.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:09 PM   #17
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

Thank you for sharing the info about the clutches. I realize you have building these things for a long time so I won't ask too many detailed things about sharing tricks you have learned to make the trans. operate better.

After reading the ATSG update manual over a few times I was starting to think I may have problems with boost and how the PCM does the trans. main pressure via the ECS. The engine I have will make full boost (9 PSI right now) below 2500 RPMs at 1/4 throttle. Since the PCM does line pressure vs. TPS (throttle position sensor) then it will not raise the line pressure enough in my opinion. I am making around 450 flywheel ft-lb at 3000 RPM and that is out of a POS stock 305ci TPI engine. The 350ci will make more torque down low.

I have a complete disassembly of the stock 1995 chevy truck $0D code which I have modified / re-coded for boost so I have a good understanding of how the PCM operates the engine and transmission. It is a software change and not just a recalibration of the BIN. I think I need to modify the PCM transmission code to raise the trans. line pressure vs. boost and TPS, not just TPS. What are your opinions on this? Do you feel the stock PCM will make the main line pressure too low at low TPS levels when the engine is making boost? I think it is a problem and think that is why the stock 700R4 went so quick. I think the TVS is not the proper setup with turbo engines. It is TPS regulated and not boost regulated.

Last edited by junkcltr; 10-28-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:19 PM   #18
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Re: No 2nd and 4th gear; 700R4

In the technical video they say to soak the clutches and install, then they take a clearance measurement. That seems wrong to me. I would think doing a dry install, measure, and set pressure plate thickness. Then disassemble and soak clutches and install. Wouldn't that be the correct way to measure? Do you provide the measurements? I have them in the ATSG manual, but figured you might have your own preferred measurements.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:19 PM
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