kccisco

call me a noob but i know as much abot tranies as i do abot how to do open heart surgery (and thats nothing) but how to strip one and put it bak together and wat i want to know is, is ther a trany i can find that will support over 400hp. iv got a t5 with a 350 pushin around 350hp and im gonna build it more cas i did a noob move and stuk the motor in without cleaning it or replacing any gaskets. i took the tranny in for an overhaul before i had the motor in and one nite i let the motor rip and now the tranny shakes in 3rd gear. im more of a manual tranny guy since the fact of reving the motor and droping it into gear just bothers me no matter how well the trqu converter is. i dont like buying new off the internet and i would like to pull a tranny that could bolt up into my fbody with little to no modifications, im young but call me old school cas i like to learn by doing so pulling a tranny from a wrecked car and overhauling it and watching it grow into something i can be proud to say i built, not i bought.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

Any spirited driving with 400hp should be looking at a LT1 T56 swap. There's a sticky at the top of the forum on the swap, it's not real hard. If you want to keep a T5 clutch/linkage setup, you can put an adaptor plate on a LSx Fbody/GTO T56 and bolt it up.

I have both a LT1 T56 and a GTO T56 ready for rebuild/sale if you're interested in either.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ml#post4333009

kccisco

is ther certain restrictions as to wat year the car is or wat make the car was, or is all t56s the same

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

1993 T56's are rated for less power than the rest. 1993-1997 T56's will bolt up to a Gen I block. 1998-2002 T56's will only bolt up to a LSx block unless it has the aforementioned adapter plate. Corvette T56's dont work since they're mounted to the transaxle instead of the engine. Im unsure even if a GTO T56 will work because Id ont know if those use torque arm rear suspensions... I remember them having IRS, so I doubt it. You need a place to mount the torque arm unless you want to mount it to the crossmember.

Internally, most of these are the same, but external differences matter. Try to stick to an F-body T56. If you get a T56 from a GTO, I bet you could find an F-body T-56 tailshaft with the torque arm mount on it and bolt it up, but I cant imagine those are super easy to find.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

I assume you mean "bolt up to a SBC block", but even then both Quicktime and Mcleod sell conversion bellhousings that allow the LSx T56 to mount to a SBC/BBC block. The adapter plate is only needed if retaining the older bellhousing/clutch setup.

GTO is totally different internally. Triple/double cone synchros and MN12 gearing. GTO tailhousing is identical to Fbody, no concerns there.. GTO T56 is externally identical to Fbody T56, only slight change needed to bellhousing/shifter-cup.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That's what I meant. I was just trying to say that it takes special parts to mate an LSx T56 to a Gen I block. It seemed a bit expensive and troublesome for me so I just decided to get an LT1 T56 and never looked back, so I wasn't super familiar with what adapter plates and conversion bellhousings were necessary or not. It's just yet another complication. And given the trouble people seem to have with LS1 T56 hydraulics, I'm not sure I'd want one.

That's very interesting. Good to know. So is the GTO trans stronger than the F-body trans?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

The bellhousing issue was always tough for LT1 T56s since there was no SFI solution until McLeod just released theirs this past year. The older T5/muncie/saginaw type SFI bellhousings were available, so the adaptor plate was a pathway to using them. Still, if you have access to a LSx T56 and going SFI, the cost will be less than converting the trans and getting an LT1 SFI.. I still wouldn't use an OEM hyd slave/TOB like you say..

The trans is warranty rated the same as the fbody (450lb-ft), but the lower gearing allows them to be used in heavier vehicles or not-quite-as-powerful motors. The new synchro designs make for VERY smooth shifting. I wouldn't say they are stronger, but a much more modern design as used in the CTSv and Corvettes.

mike

kccisco

sry iv been out of town all week workin, but wat im getin at is the t5 belhousing would make it work and the t56 shold bolt up into my car with minor modifications. well i live in a small town (im talkin 16,000 people) and so iv called all over the state and no t56 has ever been seen in the any of the junkyards, so now im in a semi desperate need of a t56 but i dont hav pay pal, if any1 has a t56 for sale for 1000$ or less in need of an overhaul or not, send me an email and i can either sign up for pay pal or find a way of paying for it

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

Where are you located? (Might want to fill in your profile)

As I mentioned, I have a GTO T56 that I've already dismantled and have the replacement parts for it to get back to 100% operational. Shoot me a PM if interested and maybe we can work something out.

The T5 bellhousing adaptor plate is here:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/it...17/4803441.htm

mike

kccisco

well im located in the dickinson nd, trust me its the boon docks but its one of the only cities wer u can walk into a place and get hired on the spot without an application and get paid more than if u had a college degree.

how much r u asking for that gto t56?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

PM sent

RED_DRAGON_85

what all would be needed to make a GTO t56 work?
if i got a relocated torque arm bracket, would everything else be able to bolt up?
just curious because torque rating is not a concern to me as much as reliability and smoothness

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

For which motor/clutch/bellhousing setup?

The GTO T56 is exactly the same externally as the LS1 T56, just has upgraded internals. For a Muncie/T5/Saginaw clutch/bell, you need to add an adapter plate (http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/it...17/4803441.htm) shorten driveshaft, and make/buy an "aftermarket" T56 Xmem from Spohn.

For a LS1-type bell/clutch setup, you can get a SFI conversion bellhousing from quicktime or McLeod and run the LS1 OEM hydraulics and a standard push-style clutch.

For a LS1 motor swap, it's a direct drop in...

chevysaregr8

Nothing is cheap on these cars. But they do hook up rather well. Jegs has torque arms for sale that mount with a saddle in the tunnel. I recommend the adjustable one for 50 dollars more. They are something you'll always be able to have in your set up. Making your stock one work is a temp. fix that you may not use in future swaps. I priced everything out and the Jegs arms are a great deal. At least give it a look. Thats what I used.

RED_DRAGON_85

oh, so it would be more difficult than a lt1 style if i was bolting to a gen1 sbc... gotcha

SLEEPER 86

do they salt the roads there?

kccisco

yep they salt the roads

travis401

iTrader: (1)

You ever swap in a t-56? I got a retrofit unit from 85miketpi, with upgraded internals to handle 700 ft lbs of torque. Its a pretty easy swap if you get the retrofit stuff and keep the stock bell and hydrualics. I spent the extra $ and got a xmember from Spohn which moved the TA mount to the xmember. I also got the adjustable TA from them too.

kccisco

well i kinda sorta built my own xmember with a welder, alot of blood and cussing but wen i got done it actualy looks perfesional considering this was my only t56 swap, i got the adapter plate off of thegearbox so i kept the old belhousing since i felt the hydraulic clutch surficed and didnt feel like messing with it since i have a severe hatred of working under my car. all i got left is test driving, finish trying to piece the interior bak together, and figuring out how to get my spedometer work.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Is it a cable or electronic speedo?

kccisco

its a cable so basicaly wat i need is a conversion from electronic to mechaninc spedo

travis401

iTrader: (1)

You can swap out to a stock electric speedo, its been done but Ive heard is a pain. You can get a converter box here, but its $325. You can also have the tailshaft machined for a cable speedo gear but that is also $300+.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Did you have to cut the transmission tunnel to make the shifter fit for your swap? That's the main reason I haven't gone with a T56 yet.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

The T-56 shifter sits about 2 in further back in the tunnel, so yes you have to cut the hole bigger. All the retro fit is, is an adapter plate that bolts to the bell to allow the trans to bolt up. Its about a 1/4 -1/2 in plate.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

According to the link for the adapter plate, it allows the transmission to be mounted at an angle which is required for the T56 to be oriented the way the T5 was. The T5 wouldn't clear the hole for the shifter either if you mounted it straight. From the factory they are rotated slightly which ***** the shifter assembly so that it fits through the hole. The difference in orientation could make up for that 2" of clearance that is needed. The description for the adapter plate also states that you can install it straight if you wish. I wonder if people who are cutting the transmission tunnel are installing it straight instead of cocked. Then again I suspect that most people don't use the adapter plate which changes things.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

If you use a premade xmember (like the spohn one I have) instead of making your own, you cant install it straight up. If you make your own xmember you can though. The plate is drilled for both options though.

Edit: I ment, you have to install it straight up, if you try cocked like the t-5, it wont line up with the xmember bolt holes.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

That's the key then. I'll fab up my own crossmember before I cut my transmission tunnel. If I can tilt the transmission and use this adapter to do that, then that's my best option. It looks like I'm going to be going with a retrofit T56.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Either way, youll have to cut the enlarge the shifter hole.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I thought I wouldn't have to if I used a custom crossmember?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Upon further thinking, I dont think you can install the t56 at the cocked angle like the t-5. I think the other pattern in the adapter plate is for different style straight up bolt pattern bell housing. If you try and **** the trans, the shifter will point off in what ever direction you **** it. And with the adapter plate youll need either an LS1 t-56, or swap the main shaft for an LS1 main shaft. The other shafts are too short and wont work. Youll also need an extended pilot bushing (also sold on thegearbox.com).

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the misinformation, I was trying to do 4 other things and respond on here.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Well the description of the adapter plate clearly states that it needs to be rotated on the adapter plate for F-body applications. Seems reasonable to me since that's what they had to do with the factory T5. Then again that may just be for compatibility's sake on the T5 bell housing. You still may have to trim the tunnel some to pull it off.

I have an aversion to cutting my car's body. Sure it will make something work now but how will I feel about what I've done in 10 years or more? How will this effect future swaps? Technology will improve. It stands to reason we'll be doing swaps beyond LSx and T56's in the future.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

With 6 gears, in 10 years youll probably be wondering why you didnt do it sooner. Honestly even if you wanted to go back to the t-5, a little sheet metal work and its all back the way it was. You can always keep the small piece youd hafta cut out and weld that back on. Its not like you gotta cut apart the whole trans tunnel, you just gotta cut a 2" max long piece out of the back of the shifter hole. I went from t-5 to t-56, got the LS1 gear set, kept my stock hydrualics, and havent even thought about putting something else in there much less going back to the 5 spd. The t-56 drives like it was ment for 3rd gens.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

sorry don't mean to hijack the thread but how do you like that setup, already got it all installed? got a similar configuration waiting to go into my formula
good info on the trans options, especially the GTO T56, i wasn't aware of that option.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

The T56 must be mounted straight up. The adapter plate has 2 sets of bellhousing bolt patterns to make it work with all different kinds of retrofit applications. The F-body T5 was rotated, so there's a pattern to accommodate the T5 bell angle and keep the T56 straight up. The older saginaw and muncie 4-speed (and SFI) bellhousings were straight up, so there's a bolt pattern to accommodate them and keep the T56 straight up.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

No doubt the T56 is a better transmission. I've got one in my GTO and my Firehawk had one. (The GTO's does shift a lot smoother.)

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Ive had the trans in for about a year now and love it. The spohn xmember and torque arm was a bit pricey but well worth it. I made a road trip from WA state to Texas in JAN. The 6 gears instead of 5 on the long stretches of open highway were nice.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I've driven my GTO long distances and never found the 6 gear to be worth while outside of cruising to save gas. I hate it when other cars are around because the car has no acceleration in 6th until you are well over 100MPH. (Or so I'm told.)

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

5th and 6th are both overdrive gears and are not for acceleration. They allow you to gear down the rear-end for optimal performance, while still cruising around and not using gallons-per-mile..

As for being "able" to accelerate in 6th, it's all relative. Your GTO has a "slightly" better 0.56 6th gear, but my 427 motor can still accelerate it's 0.50 6th gear at 60mph...

travis401

iTrader: (1)

If Im in 6th at 60mph and need to pass or something, Im just gonna down shift. Why would you try and do something like that in 6th?

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Like I said the car is simply not very responsive in that gear. I didn't say I wouldn't downshift to pass. I certainly do and have done it plenty of times. Unfortunately once in front of a highway patrol officer in a no passing zone.

kccisco

ok i finaly got my shifter in but i will be the first to tell you it does not look pretty, but i do notice a small leak at the rear of the transmission but heres the thing the shifter is not leaking and its not leaking out of the driveshaft but yet i still can find the leak to save my life