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Old 01-02-2011, 06:18 PM   #1
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Car: 91 Trans am
Engine: built 360 TBI
Transmission: built 700r4
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Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Two transmissions from PATC http://www.transmissioncenter.net/hi...00r4.htm#Parts and not one works as it should.

n1. 700raptor level 3 with a 2000rpm #5X power raptor lock-up converter.
Comes with black powder coat.

-gears banged nasty, shifting up and down since day 1 and little blackish trash could be cleaned of the magnetisized dipstick.

-after a 5 miles cruise it did not whant to upshift anymore, found some tiny metal chips on the dipstick.
Kerry from PATC told me its some trash from the previous transmission that was stuck in the radiator.
Wich I though is possible since I only used compressed air to clean the cooler lines.

-the 2000rpm TC would stall only at around 2600rpm.
Kerry: "Torque converter math is figured on an engine making 250 torque at 2500 RPM. Thanks, Kerry"
That sounded right to me, my engine should be putting around 350 tq to the wheels.

Issues started immediately.

I refreshed the transimission oil and it turned out shifting again.
I hated that transmission, banging shifts, stupid high stall for normal driving with 4th lock up only.



n2. 700raptor level 3 with a 1600rpm #2 super street raptor converter with stock lock-up and corvette servo's for smoother shifts.
With no paint as I requested.

I installed the Derale automatic transmission filter kit, for extra safety.

-gears bang nasty shifting from P or N to gear, 2-3 shift bang and little blackish trash could be cleaned of the magnetisized dipstick since day 1.

-manual 1-2-D shift control does not work, it stays in 1st.

-after 10 miles highway the transmission was acting wrong and the transmission fluid was toast.

Total miles around 20.

I refreshed the fluid and drove the car to its storage. It makes a silent jet-plane sound shifting.


I am wery disappointed, pay'd big $$$$ and still no resonable working transmission.


Any ideas what to do? I'm thinking of rebuilding the stock 700r4 my self.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes

Last edited by thomas1976; 01-02-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:49 PM   #2
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Location: sumter,south carolina
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Car: 1989 firebird gta
Engine: sbc 355 hsr 280xfi 58mm tb
Transmission: raptor 700r-4, 2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.42

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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

if its still under warranty send it back ,i have the raptor jr . had it about 6yrs now and it's just starting to give me problems. thats a lot of money to just throw away.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:38 AM   #3
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

n1 was shipped to me august 15 2010 and n2 november 12 2010, usually arrive here in 7-10 days.

Unfortunately the whole back and forward shipping process cost almost as much as a new transmission to my door.
That is why I ordered the second n2 700raptor from them. I could not immagine they would have screwed-up twice.

How was your 700raptor junior? did it shift like a normal transmission or did it shift bang/harsh?





If I knew what to change to get rid of the bang/harsh shifts, I could fix the n1 700raptor and slap a new converter in front.

This could be the less expensive way to get the car back on the road untill I find the time to rebuild the stock 700r4.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes

Last edited by thomas1976; 01-03-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:38 PM   #4
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Looking at the build... if that is all from what's listed on the site at the top. The only thing that can really make a harsh shift is the "performance 1-2 accumulator spring" or any other accumulator springs. In fact removing the springs would make it incredibly hard and would result in a hard bang. That could also explain metal material except it would probably be aluminum though.

The only other thing would be "extra wide sun gear bushing, extra wide rear stator support bushing". I'm not sure but if somehow extra wide would result in extra wear somehow that could leave you with filings.

Unless a clutchpack is dragging to make the deposits.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:00 PM   #5
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

n1 bang's downshifting too.

n2 bangs when shifting from P or N in to gear and wen it shifts from 2 to 3.

Thanks for the imput, I will open n1 wen I find some time.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes

Last edited by thomas1976; 01-03-2011 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:28 PM   #6
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

I guess maybe you could elaborate on the bangs. It shifts hard, or it actually makes a noise? I had a problem with mine being very firm out of Park or Neutral and got rid of quite a bit of that when I got a higher stall.

Bangs on downshifting almost sounds like it's more of a line pressure problem. I haven't done enough work(not much at all) with these transmissions to fully understand them and how the mods affect them completely. I'd also maybe wonder about the 'high output pump slide spring'.
I'm basing this off the 4L60E manual I have gone through, but that uses signal pressure to adjust pump output. So I'm wondering if the TV valve signal somehow feeds back to the pump so it can adjust and increase output. It's a lot easier when explained with diagrams and by someone who actually knows something. I just bring it up because they are things to look at in case one of these parts was faulty and maybe broke/were left out/or installed wrong.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:41 PM   #7
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

ugh thats unfortunate. THe TV cable was adjusted properly? Thomas you seem like a smart guy I really think you could rebuild one yourself no problem!
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:48 AM   #8
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Bang as extremely harsh shift wich also creates a clunking sound. Worse at light trottle.

n1 did not bang from P or N to gear but the torque converter wold not move the car without giving some trottle.



TV cable is fully extended at WOT and around 3mm with closed trottle.
WOT shift points are around 4400-4500rpm like stock, with the stock governor.

I also tryed 1-2 clicks in or out to check if it would fix the bang wen shifting in to gear. Made no difference.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:57 PM   #9
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Car: 1988 camaro z28,1997 camaro lt1
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Install a Corvette servo and it should not shift as hard
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:08 PM   #10
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Should the corvette servo alone cure the banging downshifts too, or would it be best to use a corvette valve body at the same time?

I would also like to put in a stock lock-up solenoid.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:07 AM   #11
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Sounds like maybe you should have just stuck with a stock tranny. If you want performance then the shifts are going to be hard. And if you did not properly flush your cooling system (air alone will not cut it) you could have ruined the trans the moment you started the car. Any debris can cause valve body to malfunction, thus a trany that shifts weird. Debris can also cause clutch failure too because it can block oil passages causing low pressure.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:35 PM   #12
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Re: Bad, bad luck with PATC's 700 raptor level 3

Kerry from PATC reccomended the 700 raptor level 3 for my application, I'm a newby in the 700r4 internals world.

Yes it is possible that the n1 700 raptor level 3, got some trash from the cooling system.
The main issue with this one are the bangin harsh light trottle up and down shifts.



Though, n2 700 raptor had the Derale automatic transmission filter installed, there is no way any trash could go back in to the transmission. Still I found the same black trash as with n1 on the dipstick. But probably that is normal for a rebuilt transmission.
The main issue with this one is that it burned up the oil on a little highway trip with a coupple kickdowns.
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91 350 .060 over, 9.8 CR, Scat rotating assembly, KB193 pistons, Floating pins, CCA 8-500-8 + roller lifters + Magnum pushroads + 981-16 valve springs, Cloyes 9-3157 timing chain, Sealed-Power A-Series aluminum bearings, Scorpion Performance 1.5 roller rockers, Summitracing 162108 aluminium heads, 47mm 3704, DIY cold air intake, RBob's EBL flash, ACD#EP241 TPI fuel pump, turbocity's 46mm TB +VRFPR, dctrumpet's #80 injectors @ 20psi VRFP, DIY 700r4 Pro Built RR, 3.5"aluminium driveshaft, Eaton LSD, GM 3.23, mac headers #TF8692, hoocker #16823 cat back, catco 3" cat, 3 wire heated O2 sensor, Bilsteins, ebmiller88's 1LE brakes

Last edited by thomas1976; 01-06-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:35 PM
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