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iTrader: (14)

I converted my 92 v6 bird to a 5 speed over the winter and just got everything back up and running last night. Problem is the clutch will not disengage all the way.

Im using 4th gen pedals, lt1 style hydro's. New pre-bled GM parts, and there is no bleeder screw on it, which i find odd.

I have what looks to be proper slave travel, it matches the travel of the slave on my 86.

The clutch, pressureplate and flywheel are new. The TO bearing is new and it is indeed installed on the fork correctly. Use the bronze pilot provided with the clutch kit.

The trans will go into all gears with the car off. With it running, it wont go into any, doesnt grind, the shifter just hits a wall and thats it. I can 'feel' the gear, but it wont go in. If i put the trans in gear, push the clutch, and start the car, it does not move, but sounds like the clutch is slipping.

I did not adjust the pivot ball, it came with the bellhousing, it didnt look worn. The clutch fork also came with the bell, its original. It did not have any visual signs of damage or bending.

Im a bit lost with this one and getting frustrated with it. Everything seems to check out, yet it does not work.

Only oddity was that the original v6 flexplate for the auto trans had a shim installed on it. I dont remember if it was behind or in front of the flexplate. I thought it was installed in front of it, like a washer of sorts for the bolts. I cant imagine leaving that out was the issue. I still have it on the shelf.

Any ideas? I dont want to take everything back out and pull the trans if i have nothing to look for?

mcgarnicle

iTrader: (14)

clutch disc on backwards?

Dakota W.

throwout bearing on backwards?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

right...

Pulled it all apart, clutch disc is not marked as to what is right or wrong, but honestly I see no reason for it not.to work either way. If somebody has a pic of a V6 CLUTCH assembled the right way.

Does anybody know if the lt1 slave has a different throw than a 3rd gen?

That's all I can think of.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I don't think LT1 hydros and 4th gen pedals will have enough throw for a T5. The LT1 clutch requires very little throw to disengage when compared to the T5 setup.

EDIT: I see u mentioned TO bearing is on right.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

This. Change your clutch pedal out.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

really? since when are 4th gen pedals incompatible with a 3rd gen? I have never heard that before. If you are sure this is the problem, i will change pedals, but this is news to me.

i will have to look, but does the clutch pedal unbolt? can i redrill the pedal stud and use a bolt?

is this usually not a issue because people commonly use a t56 wit the 4th gen pedals? am i only being shafted here because im using 4th gen stuff with a t5? what about the 4th gen t5 cars they dont have pull clutches do they? this is bullcrap

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Yes it unbolts and yes you could move the pivot.

The only reason people convert to 4th gen pedals is when they do T56 swaps as the 3rd gen pedals have too much throw and over extend the lt1 clutch.

Dakota W.

Odd, the throw on my 3rd gen pedals seem like there is too much, I only need to push the pedal down halfway to change gears.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

That is how a property setup clutch should be. Half way to the floor to release.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

From what I can find in my searching, there is no.difference between the hydros for 93-95 v6 and 93-97 lt1 cars, and since the early 4th gen t5 is pretty much the same as the 3rd gens I.don't see how that can be the issue.

I'm leaning more towards the pilot.bushing being cocked.a little and binding the input shaft, making it continue to spin even with the clutch in. Going to.look into that a bit later thisafternoon

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I looked up the slave and master and there are some different bore sizes between v6 and v8. But I would double check the clutch disc. The flat side of the disc should go against the flywheel. The side where the center protrudes should go towards the pressure plate.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

There are a number of references to the different attachment point location here.

I agree with you that it's easy to breeze past that information though.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

im aware of the differences of attachment points, however i have never seen anything other than this causing the pedal to engage high if using 3rd gen pedals and 4th gen hydros. never anything else.

however, i installed the bellhousing and mocked up the trans, and indeed it was hanging up on the pilot bushing. i mic'ed it and its about .005 smaller than the input shaft. I reamed the end a little to get a small taper to aid install and polished the ID of the bearing a little and i got it so go together properly.

Im going to swap in a new fork while i have it apart since its the only used part in the setup. Then i will see if the pedals are still causing an issue, which at this time, does not seem likely.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Good deal. That is bizarre about the pilot bushing.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

For information sake, the different master and slaves, what is the difference in bore size and what has the different bore, the master or slave.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I looked it up again and apparently they are the same part number. Rock auto had a few different bore sizes listed and I thought it was a different between V6 and V8 but I was wrong.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

put everything back together, had to press the clutch to get the trans to go the rest of they way in, but it slid right into place like it should once the pedal was pressed.

Start the car, same crap. Its still not disengaging all the way. Its obviously disengaging some, but not everything. If i set the parking brake and start it in gear, the clutch will slip with the pedal in. Without the parking brake, the car will move when i start it.

I am beyond frustrated.

Tommorow i will take the pedals out, again, and move the pivot for the clutch a little and see if thats the ticket.

if that doesnt work, im burning the car to the ground, lol

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

well you can cancel the bonfire, the car moves again! I lowered the pivot on the clutch pedal about 1" or so, increasing the through a little over 1/4". I dont have the front end completely tightened down and setup yet, but i was ble to pull it out of the garage and up and down the drive a few times.

So the lesson here is 4th gen pedals and 4th gen lt1 hydros will not disengage a stock clutch. However, 3rd gen pedals and lt1 hydros will. Also the 4th gen pedals can be modified to work properly.

-Phil

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Gad you got it going!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

me too. this car has been in the garage for way to long for various reasons, and im really anxious to get it out there and see how it performs after this winter of upgrades.

Hello, Michael

LilSki, i think you have it backwards with the clutch disk orientation. The side with the protruding center hub is supposed to face the flywheel.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

You are correct for an LT1 clutch. Everything else it's the way I said it.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Glad you figured it out!

I'm in the same boat....bilsteins, lowered, caster/camber plates...and my exhaust is the hold up of all things.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

Honestly, for the v6, I dint think it matters which way the disc goes in. The flyweel is so deep in the center the spring could fach the crank andstill have almost 2" before they hit anything.

I had the car out for.a spin last night to see if the new meats rubbed,break in the brakes and.see if anything fell off. I can't believe how well the car drove, its a little darty at times because of the huge front tires (295/18) but I can still drive with 1 finger. The brakes are ungodly and the front end really liked the the increase in spring rate (525ish to 750lb). I need to mess around in a parking lot later tonight and see if the steering arm mod helped the front end, I moved the akerman to a "positive" location and it seems to turn much differently.

I may have to tweak my alignment, I may have too much caster as the car does not recenter very well even with about 3/32 of toe in. Unless there is a different reason for than.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

A sprung hub clutch is still directional.

No need to run a solid hub clutch.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I would love to hear more about this once you get some more seat time.