My second coil wasn't bad , but I think I know what it is - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

WaynesRS · 06-12-2002, 08:58 PM

Well , my MSD coil that I just took out ( which I thought , I burned up another coil ) wasn't bad . The car is still doing the same thing . So I guess its good to know my new location mounting did work out ok !

....I think its my fuel pump . How do I check my fuel pressure guys ? My pump has 188,000 miles on it and never been changed . First Im going to change my fuel filter to make sure thats not what it is . But I Im really thinking its the pump :-(

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!

06-12-2002, 09:15 PM

did you check your coil at nite? see if it was leaking spark.

i went through a nightmare of fuel pump,relay,tps ,egr.coils, and it came down to plugs. the plugs were not that old or time ofr a change, they looked fine but dame of new ones did not fix all my problems.

stuart69427 · 06-12-2002, 09:53 PM

you need a fuel pressure guage wayne

get one with a fuel preassure regulator, i think you can get them at parts stores, but summit would defiant'y have one.

i am almost positive i am not having problems with my pump, so we might be safe

if it is your pump warn me

cuase i want to prepare for the madness of going thruogh that.

stuart69427 · 06-12-2002, 09:55 PM

better check my pressure too

WaynesRS · 06-12-2002, 10:44 PM

What's wierd is , it wont do it all the time , but just sometimes . It may do it tomorrow , then may not do it for two more days . It kinda misses a little from take off when I give it gas . But Im not having any hard start problems at all . Looks like I will be picking me up a gauge tomorrow to test my fuel pressure and a fuel filter .

Camar_Hunter_c · 06-12-2002, 11:16 PM

{Playing taps} sorry man I bet its the pump getting ready to die. Thats why my TBI did before it went. Sparatic probs, sometimes start fine, then it would need a shot of the 'ol Ether. Running down the road, go to floor it and it stubbles, let off the gas and it recovers.

It's real fun to replace too, trust me.

stuart69427 · 06-13-2002, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Camar_Hunter_c
{Playing taps} sorry man I bet its the pump getting ready to die. Thats why my TBI did before it went. Sparatic probs, sometimes start fine, then it would need a shot of the 'ol Ether. Running down the road, go to floor it and it stubbles, let off the gas and it recovers.

It's real fun to replace too, trust me.

oh i WILL

WaynesRS · 06-13-2002, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Camar_Hunter_c
{Playing taps} sorry man I bet its the pump getting ready to die. Thats why my TBI did before it went. Sparatic probs, sometimes start fine, then it would need a shot of the 'ol Ether. Running down the road, go to floor it and it stubbles, let off the gas and it recovers.

It's real fun to replace too, trust me.

That's why I can't buy any of your headers . I keep having these problems and it sets me back !

TomP · 06-13-2002, 10:35 AM

Stuart, what do you mean by "get (a fuel pressure gauge) with a fuel preassure regulator"? I didn't know they made something like that. The pressure gauge I have is by Sunpro, cost me $40 from Pep Boys, and goes from 0-80 PSI.

I hope it's not the pump, Wayne; it's a bitch to replace. (And I've done it twice.... might wind up dropping the tank a 3rd time to weld the 1/4 panel on!) I've posted tons of info on this board, if you do a search for it. A hint I'll retype, though- dont' reuse the old pulsator!! This is the piece between the fuel pump and fuel feed line, and "quiets" the pump. It uses o-rings to seal to the pump and feed line, and the o-rings crack, leak, and you lose pressure. Best bet? Replace the pulsator with the short bit of fuel hose that comes in the pump kit. Next best bet? Buy a new pulsator for $40. I reused the pulsator on my first pump swap, on the second, I used the bit of hose from the kit instead.

Tip #2; if you want to replace those beat up tank-to-body fuel hoses, the high pressure fuel feed hose is a special order item from GM- so order it now!! I called "last minute" about it, they told me 1-2 weeks.

WaynesRS · 06-14-2002, 12:20 AM

I just looked up some stuff on this project . What I did learn is ... I DONT WANT TO DO THIS PROJECT !!!!

I want to be able to sleep tonight without having nightmares about it . It just sounds like a BIG PITA !

...What do you think this would cost me from a shop guys . Including labor and parts .

MDv6man · 06-14-2002, 10:19 AM

I bought a pump for $45 and paid around 300-350 to have it installed @ Pep Boys. Same boat as you -- read the direction and said F*** THAT!!!

stuart69427 · 06-14-2002, 10:35 AM

opps, i read the catalog wrong

combine with a regualtor

Quote:

Accel's fuel pressure gauge kit lets you monitor your fuel pressure so that you know what's going on with your fuel pump and filter. Combine it with an Accel fuel pressure regulator and you've got the winning combination in tunability for the maximum ammount of power.

sorry about that! Thanks for catching that Tom.

TomP · 06-14-2002, 10:40 AM

Oh, okay, damn! I thought there was a new tool out, that I'd have to buy!

Wayne, I've usually heard $300-$400 for that job on an f-body. Sucks, eh? The pump's $80-$100.

WaynesRS · 06-14-2002, 06:27 PM

Yeah it does suck ! ..Id prabably do it myself if I had someone here with me thats done it , like you Tom or Karl . But I dont , heh .

Belker · 06-14-2002, 09:48 PM

Change the fuel filter and see how it goes. If you're lucky as I was today (changed mine) then everything will be OK with a new filter.

WaynesRS · 06-14-2002, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Belker
Change the fuel filter and see how it goes. If you're lucky as I was today (changed mine) then everything will be OK with a new filter.

Yeah , I was thinking this afternoon , Im ganna do that . I might get lucky ! Please dont laugh when I ask you this . I get confused sometimes when Im trying to loosen or tighten a bolt or screw from funny angles . When you loosened the bolts to your fuel filter , which way did you go with the wrench , say that Im sitting on the ground with my head facing the motor . I ask you this because I tried to replace my fuel filter and I had trouble I dont know if I was going the right way with the wrench !

KED85 · 06-14-2002, 11:05 PM

FIRST you MUST OBTAIN LINE WRENCHES FOR THIS, in metric sizes.
Then observe the threads on the hard lines at filter.
I don't recall which direction, it was back then.
NO this is not a fun job at all, but......
if it needs be done, you do not have a choice.
You can try the filter, but.....
Fuel pressure gauge is the easiest way to find out answer without getting hands dirty.
Pay my plane fare
I have to go to San Francisco first, then will visit ya!
Giants playing a home game, I want to go & have Blondies Pizza, too! Send the limo to pick me up at my house in LA to take me to airport, please.
Can I bring my Wife & Son

I can do this Sunday, arriving in San Francisco by 7:30 am. I can leave late Sun. evening then arrive in Alabama by Monday Morning.
PIZZA FOR BREAKFAST IS THE BEST!

WaynesRS · 06-15-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KED85
FIRST you MUST OBTAIN LINE WRENCHES FOR THIS, in metric sizes.
Then observe the threads on the hard lines at filter.
I don't recall which direction, it was back then.
NO this is not a fun job at all, but......
if it needs be done, you do not have a choice.
You can try the filter, but.....
Fuel pressure gauge is the easiest way to find out answer without getting hands dirty.
Pay my plane fare
I have to go to San Francisco first, then will visit ya!
Giants playing a home game, I want to go & have Blondies Pizza, too! Send the limo to pick me up at my house in LA to take me to airport, please.
Can I bring my Wife & Son
I can do this Sunday, arriving in San Francisco by 7:30 am. I can leave late Sun. evening then arrive in Alabama by Monday Morning.
PIZZA FOR BREAKFAST IS THE BEST!

Come on down , and I'll take you on a free tour of the University SHAQ began his career at ! . Yup he's from Baton Rouge . When Shaq use to play for the Orlando Magic , Shaq was down here in Baton Rouge at LSU , my old boss was behind him in his car , when he got out he ran over and met him and snapped some pics ! LSU would buy him cars when he was down here while he played for them , I say cars but I mean SUV'S they had to customize so he could fit his tall *** in them ! ...SHAQ :rockon: GO LAKERS !

This fuelpump is crazy guys ! Drove the car today 20 miles , never acted up !!! Car is a little sluggish , but never missed when I took off !

stuart69427 · 06-15-2002, 10:57 PM

don't you love them funny angles ?

i paid $300 dollars labor to have mine fixed. $80 fo the part.

"If it loosens the bolt, youre going the right way, otherwise go the other way!"

TomP · 06-17-2002, 02:08 PM

Better throw a fuel pressure gauge on there soon- when the pump dies, it dies all the way. Our cars can run on low fuel pressure, but when it gets too low...

Counterclockwise = loosens. Spray the fittings with Liquid Wrench a few days before disassembling them. Make sure to use a back-up wrench on the fuel filter's tube nut, so the fuel filter doesn't spin.

Sometimes, to break free a tube nut, instead of using a flare wrench, I'll use a BIG (12 inch) adjustable wrench. I've had some flare nuts strip while using a flare wrench- even by using the correct size'd metric flare wrench on a metric tube nut. Look at an adjustable wrench's jaws one day. The adjustable jaw only grips one side of the nut. The other, solid jaw, will grip two sides. When you break any screw/nut/tube fitting free with an adjustable wrench, you want the "stress" to be on the fixed jaw. I don't quite know how to explain it without pictures, but hopefully you'll see what I mean by looking at the wrench, and how the jaws "act" on the nut/bolt/tube fitting.

KED85 · 06-17-2002, 04:20 PM

Tom, having lived back east, OH HOW I REMEMBER WHAT THE WINTER DOES TO ROADS & UNDERSIDES OF CARS
I still take it for granted everyones cars look like the underside of a South Western car.
I have my 1974 Corvette to remind me of Iowa. My Corvette lived there for 6 years before it moved to Nevada then California (1981)

WaynesRS · 06-17-2002, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomP
Better throw a fuel pressure gauge on there soon- when the pump dies, it dies all the way. Our cars can run on low fuel pressure, but when it gets too low...

Counterclockwise = loosens. Spray the fittings with Liquid Wrench a few days before disassembling them. Make sure to use a back-up wrench on the fuel filter's tube nut, so the fuel filter doesn't spin.

Sometimes, to break free a tube nut, instead of using a flare wrench, I'll use a BIG (12 inch) adjustable wrench. I've had some flare nuts strip while using a flare wrench- even by using the correct size'd metric flare wrench on a metric tube nut. Look at an adjustable wrench's jaws one day. The adjustable jaw only grips one side of the nut. The other, solid jaw, will grip two sides. When you break any screw/nut/tube fitting free with an adjustable wrench, you want the "stress" to be on the fixed jaw. I don't quite know how to explain it without pictures, but hopefully you'll see what I mean by looking at the wrench, and how the jaws "act" on the nut/bolt/tube fitting.

Thanx so much as always Tom !

WaynesRS · 07-15-2002, 01:31 PM

Its started it again guys , when I accelerate . So the day before yesterday I decided to check my plugs and wires , just to make sure .All my wires are just as good as new , but one of my sparkplugs had gas on it and it 4 of the rest of them had some gas on them but did now have as much as the #5 plug did . Im thiking this could be a fuel pressure regulator problem ? ? ? I know a fuel pressure gauge will tell me if my pump is bad , but will it tell me if Im having fuel pressure regualator problems ?

KED85 · 07-15-2002, 01:54 PM

The pressure regulator is just basically a rubber diaphram.
Same as on many V-6.
BUT you need a special screwdriver to remove the cap

WaynesRS · 07-15-2002, 02:11 PM

Thanx Karl .

As in what kinda special screwdriver ? I might have them laying around here . I have tons of differnt kinda of screwdrivers , but I lost two funny looking ones the day before yesterday . I was organizing my tools , I had a few sitting on top of my windshield wiper , well I took off with them there , it started raining and when I turned the wipers on , it threw them on my roof they went across my roof then went down my fender and in the median some where on hooper road

. Put small knicks all over my roof and fender !

WaynesRS · 07-15-2002, 04:44 PM

ttt

KED85 · 07-15-2002, 04:53 PM

Wayne,
Ya won't have these
I never knew this tool existed until I had to remove the FP reg from the fuel rail of my first 3.4 swap boogie project.

It's a star screwdriver with a "pin" in the middle, to push down a pin on the FP reg screw head.
IF ya don't have this tool, those screws won't turn!
Pin pressure part unlocks a "catch".
This is a safety thing so us "Idiots" don't mess there.
Again, I never saw this tool, until....
My machinist has a set of them.
Person that did your "ignition" problems may have one.
BUT ya gotta take off top manifold to access this FP reg.

WaynesRS · 07-15-2002, 05:01 PM

hmm I wonder if they parts store would have em ? ....Or do you suggest letting a mechanic do this job Karl ?

KED85 · 07-15-2002, 10:14 PM

With item in hand, it is real simple to access.
I mean, if you've replaced fuel injectors, the fuel rail was off, correct?
You can "do that again" and bring the fuel rail to the guy....
OR spend a hot day in the yard and see what I am referring to (that screw) then buy tool.

WaynesRS · 07-15-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KED85
With item in hand, it is real simple to access.
I mean, if you've replaced fuel injectors, the fuel rail was off, correct?
You can "do that again" and bring the fuel rail to the guy....
OR spend a hot day in the yard and see what I am referring to (that screw) then buy tool.

Well, does this involve taking the fuel rail out of the car ? Which means unscrewing the fuel lines ? I read in my haynes manual and I dont think it said anything about taking the rail out but ...I dunno .

KED85 · 07-16-2002, 10:35 AM

Wayne, I'm suggesting you remove the fuel rail with the Reg attached and bring the fuel rail to one that has that srewdriver.
Just make it as simple a remove repair replace/return to car as it can be....
There is NO NEED for an adjustable item here. You are using a "stock six" injector set up.
The "stock" reg can handle it....
Once you see it apart, it's again....

so simple a design.

WaynesRS · 07-16-2002, 10:43 AM

As always , Thanx for the help Karl !

KED85 · 07-16-2002, 10:53 AM

This could COULD be the easiest way to CHECK this part....
You can also drive it there & have 'em do it, too.
Recall your last reapair attempt....

WaynesRS · 07-16-2002, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KED85
This could COULD be the easiest way to CHECK this part....
You can also drive it there & have 'em do it, too.
Recall your last reapair attempt....

Yeah , I know , thats why I was saying I didn't wanna take the fuel rail out cus those damn fuel rail lines . If I had to do it all over again , I could prabably do it without a problem but I dont want to take a chance with my car that is a daily driver . I learned from my mistakes when I did that . Not blaming my parents when I say this , but them kinda rushing me did not help the matter with those damn fuel lines , they were kinda rushing me cus I was driving there cars around town which they need . And they wont let me live that down , everytime I work on a car , they're like you sure you can do this ? I say look at all the things I have changed on that car powersteering pump , altenator , radiator , thermastat , heater blower . I REBUILT MY DISTRIBUTOR ! I guess everyone has to have one phuck up somewhere with a car huh ?

TomP · 07-16-2002, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KED85
It's a star screwdriver with a "pin" in the middle, to push down a pin on the FP reg screw head.
IF ya don't have this tool, those screws won't turn!
Pin pressure part unlocks a "catch".

There's actually no "catch", or pin pressure. It's just a bunch of "security torx bits". The pin is the security feature; not too many people have a set of those sockets. You can grind the pin away with a die grinder. Some guys smack the pin down with a hammer and punch. Or you could buy the bits... I think JCWhitney might sell 'em, and here's one online store: http://www.tools-plus.com/lis26000.html

I really wouldn't bother taking the whole rail out. A fuel pressure gauge can also tell you if the regulator is bad. Hell, just drive up to a garage and have them check your fuel pressure! I'm sure they'd only charge you $10... ask first. If you don't want to buy the gauge, it might be a way around it.

KED85 · 07-16-2002, 05:39 PM

Tom, thanks!
Sometimes my Mechaincs English isn't so good (tech names of this & that).
Wayne you've got your options....
Oh, as stink-o as it is, your parents are also right...... Sucks, but I was there once (you being you & learning-me once doing same fix it-tricks as you have, too).
Think you have it fun, deal with one on Herion......

1991tealRSt-topGuy · 07-16-2002, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TomP

There's actually no "catch", or pin pressure. It's just a bunch of "security torx bits". The pin is the security feature; not too many people have a set of those sockets. You can grind the pin away with a die grinder. Some guys smack the pin down with a hammer and punch. Or you could buy the bits... I think JCWhitney might sell 'em, and here's one online store: http://www.tools-plus.com/lis26000.html

security torx................... thats what i thought karl was talking about , but he threw me off with the pin

he made it sound that the pin was part of the tool

its actually just a torx bix with a cylindrical depression to prevent the everyday joe from toying with there car.........thus they either have to take it to a mechanic or buy the tool

i have security torx bits, they came with my Snap-On 12 volt drill

KED85 · 07-16-2002, 07:57 PM

Oh well, I knew what I was talking about, just not the "correct term".
In this current 3.4 swap, I just removed eveything (95 SFI set up), in as much of "one piece" as possible. Tossed it into the box of left over parts for the future. SUCKED, the SFI stuff looks so decent (just not installed today, the Blazer must pass CA smog first)
I installed the 2.8 carb intake so no monkeying around with any of those parts, like last year when I did the 2.8->3.4 Long Block Swap Boogie under the 85 Firebird hood.

WaynesRS · 07-16-2002, 08:50 PM

Thanx guys ! Im not sure what Im ganna do yet , Im ganna think about this .

WaynesRS · 07-16-2002, 11:11 PM

I was just thinking . I have some bits and have 4 screw drivers that look like those bits in the pic that Tom posted . I might just take the top manifold off tommorrow to see if I can get one of them to fit .

WaynesRS · 07-25-2002, 09:15 PM

Well , I took it to the shop yesterday . The fuel pressure was checked today . They said it was fine . They drove the car all around and could not get it to hesitate . The mechanic checked my timing and it was WAY off he said . It was set at 16 degrees instead of 10 . The moron who put my distributor back on from the last shop did not tighten the bolt down all the way and the distributor moved around . Thats when I put it in the shop because my neighbor and me could not find what was wrong with it . ( why it was not starting ) . They also found a BIG oil leak on my intake manifold . He said its leaking from the gasket . I thought my car was leaking antifreeze from a pinhole in my top radiator hose !

I had put some oil in it , but didnt think the leak was that bad . The mechanic said when he had it in his stall , he let it idle and he could see the oil dripping on the floor .

I think he said the gasket was not on good ......But I was thinking is it possible for the fuel pressure not be normal one day and drop the next day , be sporadic like that ? I may drive the car for an hour and it will run fine , then next min I know , it will hesitate when I take off , bogging down . Damn , its only been 2 days , and I miss my car !

The mechanic that is working on my car also owns the shop and he has a dragster that runs 8s !!!!

I've seen him run it a good bit .

WaynesRS · 07-25-2002, 11:45 PM

ttt:lala:

MDv6man · 07-26-2002, 08:26 AM

One thing's for sure -- that intake leak needs to be fixed. A leak in the intake manifold can (if it gets bad enough) create a massive vacuum leak. It sounds similar to the problem I had on my 83. What happened was the intake leak would be fine when the engine was cold. Once it got up to operating temp, the heat would cause stuff to expand and open the leak further. This would cause the car to lose vacuum. Mine would stall after about ten minutes and I'd have a he!! of a time getting it to start and stay running. Maybe yours is a similar problem except on a smaller scale

stuart69427 · 07-26-2002, 10:05 AM

intake leak on your new engine? that sucks wayne, let us know how this goes...

WaynesRS · 07-26-2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stuart69427
intake leak on your new engine? that sucks wayne, let us know how this goes...

I think I caught it from my Uncle .

He has a 96 chevy fullsize extended cab with a vortec 350 with dual flowmasters on it . He had an intake leak about 6 months ago

His truck is badass . It runs 16.10s ! which is pretty quick for that bigass truck 1

stuart69427 · 07-26-2002, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WaynesRS

I think I caught it from my Uncle . He has a 96 chevy fullsize extended cab with a vortec 350 with dual flowmasters on it . He had an intake leak about 6 months ago His truck is badass . It runs 16.10s ! which is pretty quick for that bigass truck 1

d@mn, your sure are contagous!

well, remeber how mine has been running the bast that it has since I bought it the past few days, well today, it was hesitating like crazy, i think that if I pull my cap off, i am going to find a really carbon tracked rotor and cap that I need to clean agian

propably wouldn't hurt to clean the plugs while i am at it. Haven't taken the dremel to those yet, last time i had to clean them by hand

that was fun...

inittab · 07-26-2002, 06:39 PM

i remember when i had fuel pump problems, trying to leave best buy, stall, start make it into home depot parking lot right in front of store, stall, no start, pump is a BITCH to get to too, you think they would of made a access panel from the trunk

WaynesRS · 07-26-2002, 09:20 PM

I think Im doing pretty good though , to have 189k miles on the original fuel pump !

I got 170k out of the original waterpump !

Then it just threw-up all over my driveway one day .

Ryan_Alswede · 07-26-2002, 11:59 PM

Talking about coils in the dark guys, that glow around them is normal i think. I've had 3 stock coils and 2 MSD coils on my car and they have all done the same glow around the inside next to the square and if you put your fingure along the lead you can create glows.

I wish somebody could explain to me why it does that, nope not even MSD will say.