V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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sorry, i dont have any pictures. i will explain it the best i can and use links from other sites. first off, i didnt feel a significant increase with this mod, but i still didnt like the idea of a roasting throttle body. if you go to this site, it will explain it to you step by step. http://thirdgenmods.firebirdv6.com/tbcoolant.html i personally skipped the part with the new tubing....i removed one of the original tubes and disconnected the second one from the throttle body, folded it over, and tightened it to the place where the first tube came out of (i hope that makes sense). so, basically, the tube is folded and serves as a plug rather than allowing coolant to flow through it. if anyone feels there is a problem with this, please tell me. i have had it like this for a month, and have had no problems. i hope this helps
I dig the hood man..nice...where'd ya get it?? Looks like an aftermarket factory-design Z28 hood minus blisters... And.....do I see a 2.8 dual snorkel intake system rigged up to a 3.1 engine? I can still see the original filter can.. You know you CAN remove that...
Originally posted by 90firebird sorry, i dont have any pictures. i will explain it the best i can and use links from other sites. first off, i didnt feel a significant increase with this mod, but i still didnt like the idea of a roasting throttle body. if you go to this site, it will explain it to you step by step. http://thirdgenmods.firebirdv6.com/tbcoolant.html i personally skipped the part with the new tubing....i removed one of the original tubes and disconnected the second one from the throttle body, folded it over, and tightened it to the place where the first tube came out of (i hope that makes sense). so, basically, the tube is folded and serves as a plug rather than allowing coolant to flow through it. if anyone feels there is a problem with this, please tell me. i have had it like this for a month, and have had no problems. i hope this helps
I got mine like yours too - just make sure it doesn't rub on the belt, yanno?
__________________ ~$~'88 Black 3.1/5 Speed Camaro~$~
i hope you like my riged up air cleaner and the boddems are cut out to . to increase flow
anywho i havent had time to take the old one out yet
the hood is one i got from a iroc z in a junk yard
i have a nother hood if any of you want it i look the same but no primer with no luvers for 75.00 but i will primer it 4 u if you want it for 10.00 i live in sc
I'm gonna have to check junkyards first...cause as much as I think thats a nice price for that hood, shipping's a killer...and a junkyard around here might have what I'm looking for in decent shape for a decent price..depends on where ya go.
And...no time to take it out? It takes under 5 mins! I assume you've relocated the sensor...if not...well...just unscrew it from the can and dangle it for a min...and get a ratchet and remove the center bolt..entire assembly pulls out then. Then just tape the sensor somewhere in the empty space..BUT relocate it into the air stream if possible.
Hmm..I might have to try this myself. I have a very sensitive ***... (For feeling 'seat of your pants' differences in power).Lol..ESPECIALLY when it deals with intake. I can feel and hear the differences in all intake systems I've run..the engine sounds different for each one. Like right now, I have a stock arm with a K&N filter with the filter can removed....it flows way better than stock but I can hear it running out of breath just a bit from the stock arm...
And...air density sensor?? You mean the MAF? Or MAP?
i have a vacume problem and i dont know what it is look at the top of my tb and the middle vacume line comming out goes under the tb and hase a screw plug and i want to hook it back up
You talking about in that clip that goes into the throttle body with the 2 lines? I havent looked but, I dont think that's vacuum.....I don't see what else you could be talking about. And, you don't have an MAF then...
So, I assume you're replacing the MAP then? I dont know...I've never heard of an 'air density' sensor..lol.. The MAP has a small vacuum line running out the back of the plenum and over to a little sensor package mounted to the firewall lip on the passenger side, near the condensor and blower motor.
I see you're from Greenville too. Nice looking car. I had one like that before. But you need to paint that gray thing on your front end. I see enough ricers around here going around with primered body kits, we don't need domestic people too. Who'd you get your Camaro from?
__________________ 1999 Cobra New pics
Mods: 8.6# Boosted 408rwhp 403rwtq
Here's what you need for a clean finish and function:
Earls fittings #712010 (10A.N. 120* hose barb), #981610 (1/2" to 10A.N. adapter), 1 foot of 5/8" hose & 2 clamps.
1) Disconnect the two coolant hoses to the TB.
2)Take off the coolant barb plate from the underneath side of the throttle body with the appropriate torx socket.
3)Disconnect the metal heater feed pipe from the intake manifold, heater solinoid, and alt. bracket and cut it in half just behind the belt tensioner, then reinstall the side to the heater solinoid and bracket screw.
4) install the earls adapter and hose barb fittings angling the 120* hose barb in the same direction that the original metal heater feed hose ran.
5) attach 5/8" hose cut to appropriate length to the hose barb and the original remaining heater feed line with hose clamps.
6) start car and check coolant level in case of any loss.
This procedure will eliminate the two coolant feed lines to the throttle body altogether eliminating the lope around the intake associated with the standard TB bypass. Making it easier to remove the intake and breather hose when working on the car in the future, + it look alot cleaner!
Last edited by AFreaknGoodTme; 12-27-2002 at 01:16 AM.
Screw all that. First off you will notice next to nothing. I promise, this was the first mod I did to my 3.1L. Second off if you HAVE TO do it then make the flexible piping go up and over the TB intake pipe. It will be MUCH easier to do. If I were you I would trash that. Either go with a V8 (which wont be easy), put you on some Crane Gold roller rockers, and a cam, then get you some mufflers. With only about 150hp you wont need to go with a 2.5" aftermarket catback system, all it is is a waste of money for a single cam 2.8L-3.4L V6. Oh yea and do you a 3 angle valve job. That should put you around 170rwhp and 210trq.
I repeat this mod will do NOTHING for you. People on here will tell you that it will make you car faster in the summer time. I did the mod in Greenville, South Carolina where I live and I saw dick for power gain.
Originally posted by Snake32v I repeat this mod will do NOTHING for you. People on here will tell you that it will make you car faster in the summer time. I did the mod in Greenville, South Carolina where I live and I saw dick for power gain.
Whats you chip buddy? I never claimed any of this would gain horsepower. I stated above that it cleans up the engine compartment and makes things easier to work on.
Last edited by AFreaknGoodTme; 12-27-2002 at 01:14 AM.
To be honest, the throttle body is heated for three reasons, 1) to help heat the engine faster, 2) better emissions, 3) prevent throttle body freezing.
Honestly, I doubt if you'll notice ANY difference at all. I will go as far as to say that I'm sure it DOES acutally improve perormance, however, the increase is so miniscule that I doubt it could even be measured in the quarter mile.
Ok, the difference would be like... a 15.91 instead of a 15.92
if even that.
However, if you MUST remove it, I suggest installing some sort of valve. You can purchase little fittings that will allow you to attach a small valve in-line, or on both sides if you wish (would be better to do that).
That way, when it does become winter time, you can open the valves and it will still work.
Honestly though, if you're expecting any kind of performance increase, you're going to be disappointed.
Todd
__________________ Todd, @ http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 VW Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX-P74
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter
Originally posted by AFreaknGoodTme Here's what you need for a clean finish and function:
Earls fittings #712010 (10A.N. 120* hose barb), #981610 (1/2" to 10A.N. adapter), 1 foot of 5/8" hose & 2 clamps.
(snip)
This procedure will eliminate the two coolant feed lines to the throttle body altogether eliminating the lope around the intake associated with the standard TB bypass. Making it easier to remove the intake and breather hose when working on the car in the future, + it look alot cleaner!
I absolutely agree; gets rid of the thing altogether. And as for the freezing issue; it must have to be pretty damn cold out for that to happen. I live in NJ, granted, we don't drop to sub-zero temps often, but usually we get 18-20 degree nights... I've had the TB bypass since '97, and never had my throttle freeze up. Don't forget too, as soon as that engine warms up past 32 degrees (which shouldn't be too long for a block of iron with explosions happening in each cylinder), the metal of the motor will conduct it's heat to the TB. Not to mention all the vibration of the motor, either.
Quote:
Originally posted by Snake32v Screw all that. First off you will notice next to nothing. I promise, this was the first mod I did to my 3.1L. Second off if you HAVE TO do it then make the flexible piping go up and over the TB intake pipe. It will be MUCH easier to do. If I were you I would trash that. Either go with a V8 (which wont be easy), put you on some Crane Gold roller rockers, and a cam, then get you some mufflers. With only about 150hp you wont need to go with a 2.5" aftermarket catback system, all it is is a waste of money for a single cam 2.8L-3.4L V6. Oh yea and do you a 3 angle valve job. That should put you around 170rwhp and 210trq.
Looks like someone didn't like their car too much! (!) Nobody said this was the miracle mod, dude... nobody ever did... and if you think a 2.5" catback system is a waste for a 2.8-3.4, how can you justify a 3 angle valve job??
__________________ -Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)
Actually as stated before I owned a 1992 RS Camaro 3.1L 5 speed and after I installed a flowmaster delta flow muffler this was the second mod I did. And it was a WASTE OF MY TIME! And it took alittle longer than 10 mins after the 9 year old hose clamps both broke.
It's the little things that count in these v6's. You do a half ton of these basic little mods, and next thing you know, you're slowly building power out of them...
I'm with TomP - how do you justify a 3 angle valve job, and call an exhuast system a waste?
This will not make a car faster- it is just to refreshen the heads to stock config. Give it a rest. Sounds to me like you just learned about it and are so hip on giving everyone this "hot tip"
Originally posted by AFreaknGoodTme 3 angle valve job,
3 angle valve job,
3 angle valve job,
3 angle valve job.
We got it already partner.
This will not make a car faster- it is just to refreshen the heads to stock config. Give it a rest. Sounds to me like you just learned about it and are so hip on giving everyone this "hot tip"
Riiiiiight, so explain to me why you have your 10 or so year old engine out why wouldn't you do all this to make your car respond better? smart one. You seem to have a hot head on your shoulder. Sorry I had no idea I was talking to an expert mechanic. I'll back down now.
Originally posted by Snake32v Riiiiiight, so explain to me why you have your 10 or so year old engine out why wouldn't you do all this to make your car respond better? smart one. You seem to have a hot head on your shoulder. Sorry I had no idea I was talking to an expert mechanic. I'll back down now.
I love asswipes like this who just have to be right so I'll play your little game right back.
1) Who ever said anything about him wanting to pull his motor?
2) Who would spend all that money on a V8 swap like you for some reason suggested if you can just buy a V8 car for cheaper than the swap would cost?
3)And most importantly. The guy that started this post asked how to do a TB Bypass? That was it and that is what he wants answered. He doesn't care about any other modification you may have to throw his way. He obviously wants to do it and doesn't feel like its a waste of his time. It was fine of you to state that there will not be any power gain noticed-I happen to agree- but I have still done it to mine and others will still do it to theirs because there are possitive aspects to not having the extra and in Most cases useless plumbing in the engine compartment.
Thank you- Next time could you please stick with the topic.
It's not a useless mod, but it's purpose isn't what people normally think. It saves you from spilling coolant when you remove the throttle body and looks cleaner. Same as removing air tubes and such. As far as a power mod, yeah, it probably doesn't do much.
Seems like stuff escalates into flames so easily around here
Rez...SEEMS like? No, it DOES... This place is a warzone sometimes.. It's in the nature of car buffs I guess..to be stubborn. And you know what happens when you put stubborn people with opposing viewpoints together..
I'm pretty apprehensive about even saying "v8" around here, it's like reverse discrimination You didn't say anything about v6s in this post, Snake, but Nixon didn't actually say that you did. Threads don't have to go away by being locked, we can just let them slowly dissapear
Originally posted by AFreaknGoodTme I love asswipes like this who just have to be right so I'll play your little game right back.
1) Who ever said anything about him wanting to pull his motor?
2) Who would spend all that money on a V8 swap like you for some reason suggested if you can just buy a V8 car for cheaper than the swap would cost?
3)And most importantly. The guy that started this post asked how to do a TB Bypass? That was it and that is what he wants answered. He doesn't care about any other modification you may have to throw his way. He obviously wants to do it and doesn't feel like its a waste of his time. It was fine of you to state that there will not be any power gain noticed-I happen to agree- but I have still done it to mine and others will still do it to theirs because there are possitive aspects to not having the extra and in Most cases useless plumbing in the engine compartment.
Thank you- Next time could you please stick with the topic.
(This is Doward, over at a friend's place)
Hell, I don't even get along with you, but thanks for saving me from having to type that.
Seriously, it's not your car SVT, so why give the guy a hard time? It's not like bypassing the stupid plumbing is going to HURT, now is it?
I simply put out my opinion from doing this exact mod on a car exactly like his in EXACTLY the same type of weather conditions. It does nothing, its there for a reason leave it. If I were to build a 3.1L 60 degree engine over again I would start it right with building the engine then follow up with a turbocharger. I don't understand why you would want to fool around with mods that give you .4hp. I mean yea every little bit helps but why not just go for it and put in a cam or something? Hell I dunno, maybe you guys know something that I didn't back when I had mine. Didn't mean to turn this into a flame war.
This is a bull**** mod...you guys can quit fighting about it....Monk...eh, Snake, give the guys a lil break, you were once a lil nieve V6 owner too. I REMEMBER some of your posts...as I'm sure you remember a lot of mine.
And IIRC, you actually LISTED TB Bypass as one of your mods....and DID state you saw a difference. However, you did eventually realize that it was still a BS mod.
Snake, the reason we don't just put in a cam and drop a turbo or a blower on our v6's is cause like me, a lot of us are on limited budgets, ie. school, just out of college, etc. If we all wanted a fast car we'd get a V8. But like me, a lot of these people on the v6 boards don't want to just sit around and not be able to work on their car because it's a v6. I drive my car everyday and I want it to be reliable but I also want to squeeze every ounce of power out of it that I can without any detrimental effects.
David
The one thing you need to consider is that, there are lots of things that you can do, for VERY
cheap, that WILL improve the performance of your engine drastically.
The first of these is a performance cam-shaft. They sell performance camshafts for the
V6/60 that work VERY well. There are a whole slew of them for sale at www.engine-parts.com.
They'll easily give you 15-20 more horsepower to your engine, more if combined with other
specific items. With this, you'd need to remove a lot of items from the front of your engine,
timing chain too, and you'd need to remove your entire intake. But you won't have to pull the
engine out of the car to do it. So it would be something that an average mechanic could do
in a weekend in his backyard.
If you're not privy to that and don't feel up to that just yet with the experience you may
or may not have, you can go with a set of Roller tipped rocker arms. These cost
$150 dollars, and replace the rocker arms on your engine. This only requires that you remove
the intake plenum, and your valve covers. You can then replace them with your roller rockers and it'll
not only improve HP, but help reduce engine drag. They come in two ratios for your engine
1.52:1 which will most likely give you around 2-3 additional HP, and the 1.6:1 roller rockers
which you can expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 horsepower from.
Also, if you want some quick power, replace your factory charcoal style catalytic converters with
a set of hi-flow 3-way catalyst converters. $59.95 a piece.
__________________ Todd, @ http://www.PontiacPerformance.Net
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 VW Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX-P74
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter
The one thing you need to consider is that, there are lots of things that you can do, for VERY
cheap, that WILL improve the performance of your engine drastically.
The first of these is a performance cam-shaft. They sell performance camshafts for the
V6/60 that work VERY well. There are a whole slew of them for sale at www.engine-parts.com.
They'll easily give you 15-20 more horsepower to your engine, more if combined with other
specific items. With this, you'd need to remove a lot of items from the front of your engine,
timing chain too, and you'd need to remove your entire intake. But you won't have to pull the
engine out of the car to do it. So it would be something that an average mechanic could do
in a weekend in his backyard.
If you're not privy to that and don't feel up to that just yet with the experience you may
or may not have, you can go with a set of Roller tipped rocker arms. These cost
$150 dollars, and replace the rocker arms on your engine. This only requires that you remove
the intake plenum, and your valve covers. You can then replace them with your roller rockers and it'll
not only improve HP, but help reduce engine drag. They come in two ratios for your engine
1.52:1 which will most likely give you around 2-3 additional HP, and the 1.6:1 roller rockers
which you can expect somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 horsepower from.
Also, if you want some quick power, replace your factory charcoal style catalytic converters with
a set of hi-flow 3-way catalyst converters. $59.95 a piece.
If you are going to do either cam or ratio rockers or both, you had better put heavier valve springs and retainers into it. There is not alot of meat in the 2.8/3.1 heads for really large springs- you'll have to go to 3.4 heads if you run too much lift. In that case you might want to get a "3 angle valve job" while the heads are out(Just a smartass remark in case many have not followed this post)
Yeah....hell I'd LOVE to put a camshaft in but I dont trust my mechanical abilities enough.. Sooner or later I'll probably do the roller rockers though. But another thing..correct me if I'm wrong, but, don't you insert the camshaft into the engine after you take the camshaft sprocket off, behind the timing chain? That's like, in the front of the engine..and wouldnt there not be enough room to clear the fan and radiator to insert it?
Originally posted by David Blalock Snake, the reason we don't just put in a cam and drop a turbo or a blower on our v6's is cause like me, a lot of us are on limited budgets, ie. school, just out of college, etc. If we all wanted a fast car we'd get a V8. But like me, a lot of these people on the v6 boards don't want to just sit around and not be able to work on their car because it's a v6. I drive my car everyday and I want it to be reliable but I also want to squeeze every ounce of power out of it that I can without any detrimental effects.
David
One of the last mods I did was a Crane Cam. I can't remember the part number and I threw the magazine away a long time ago but I installed it myself. Yes it took about a week for me since I had school and what not but the install costed me about $200 in the cam and tools I had to buy. I hardly call that alot of money. And it was a good mod. I'm sure if I had ported and polished the heads they would have made the cam shine. But I ran out of time and alot of **** happened and I sold my car. Anyways point is it doesn't cost that much. Porting and polishing the heads, you can do that yourself. Cam, about $150 then install it yourself. And yes you can do the install with the engine in the car.
I did the mod in Greenville, South Carolina where I live and I saw dick for power gain. 
smart one. You seem to have a hot head on your shoulder. Sorry I had no idea I was talking to an expert mechanic. I'll back down now. 
You didn't say anything about v6s in this post, Snake, but Nixon didn't actually say that you did. Threads don't have to go away by being locked, we can just let them slowly dissapear 
