V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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I have a 1990 Firebird, a 468 SX-50 laptop and a ALDL cable I bought and I am trying to get them all to talk right. I am using both Craigs Moats software and ALDLMon. Craigs software kinda freezes when I try and get it to connect, though it is getting data through the serial port. ALDLMon is what made sure that cable was connected, because when the car is off the software tells me cable or interface missing. When I turn the key on it tells it ECM not Responding....
What the heck is going on!! How can I make them talk. The car is a 1990 V-6 w/ AT MPFI Speed Density setup....
Is there anyone that can help with this concern? I have been looking into using WinALDL to tap into my car, but it looks as though that's not an option according to the cars that it works with. It does not like the 3.1L...
WinALDL will not work on the '90 through '92 3.1l ECMs. This ECM is a '730 that runs the interface at 8192 baud. WinALDL only operates on the 160 baud interfaces.
As for Craig's program working on the SD TPI f-body and not on the 3.1l f-body, even though the ECM is the same the software is not. The data stream headers are different between the V8 & V6 ECM software.
If you can set the header values in a setup file or such then it is possible to get Craig's and/or ALDLMon to operate with the 3.1l.
Originally posted by pasky What do you mean edit the header files, im willing to give it a shot, but which .dat file is the configuration file and what exactly am I looking for?
Didn't say anything about a header file. I am referring to the data stream packet headers. For the $8D mask the first header byte is $F4, for the $88 mask it is $F0.
May want to get Moates software and check to see if it can be changed. I know that the source for an older version is on his site.
Is it in C or assembly, im guessing the core is assembly. Anyways, do you know what the values would need to be changed to and what variables? If not I won't even bother.
Originally posted by pasky Is it in C or assembly, im guessing the core is assembly. Anyways, do you know what the values would need to be changed to and what variables? If not I won't even bother.
Not one to dig in and take a look, are we? The source is in Quick Basic, the header values are hard coded (but easy to change), and I gave them to you in the post above.
Just took a look at the 850 Source and man its been quite a few years since I even touched basic (never did much in the first place). Did a quick search and although his source is nice and clean, couldn't find anything you were speaking of. Also what worries me is it says its designed for the 160 baud rate on the serial connection which is what the TPI's use I think, don't the 3.1's use 8192 or something? Thanks for the help.
just got my cable Rbob and im looking through this source code and have no idea where to start. Do you at least know which Sub it is under? I really want to get this sucker going on my car so I can fix the idle and see what other crap is happening under the hood. Thanks.
Originally posted by pasky just got my cable Rbob and im looking through this source code and have no idea where to start. Do you at least know which Sub it is under? I really want to get this sucker going on my car so I can fix the idle and see what other crap is happening under the hood. Thanks.
I found it in two locations (data out & data in). Search the source for &HF4 and change it to &HF0
Originally posted by RBob Not one to dig in and take a look, are we? The source is in Quick Basic, the header values are hard coded (but easy to change), and I gave them to you in the post above.
RBob.
Quick Basic? Wait; I thought the computer need at least Windows 95 to run?
I bought two 386sx16 laptops a lonnng time ago ($50 each, I guess in '95?) to run WinALDL, then found out that Win95 was needed, and they've sat ever since. I do have an Inspiron 8200 at home, but feel a little worried about hooking that up to the car. So I won't be using the Inspiron at -all-... not an option. I was going to get a $100 laptop off of eBay, but if I can recompile the program in DOS, all the more better...
__________________ -Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)
Originally posted by TomP Quick Basic? Wait; I thought the computer need at least Windows 95 to run?
I bought two 386sx16 laptops a lonnng time ago ($50 each, I guess in '95?) to run WinALDL, then found out that Win95 was needed, and they've sat ever since. I do have an Inspiron 8200 at home, but feel a little worried about hooking that up to the car. So I won't be using the Inspiron at -all-... not an option. I was going to get a $100 laptop off of eBay, but if I can recompile the program in DOS, all the more better...
The above program is for the 8192 baud ECMs ('730). WinALDL only operates on the 160 baud ECMs. I know very little about the MAF V6 ECMs ('870?) so I can't even tell you which baud rate it runs at.
Kick *** thanks Rbob, I had already found this earlier with Craig's help but its great that you replied, I love this board . He also said i'll need to change that value in a few other places to ensure that the data translation is correct. Thanks for the tip on the 85, i'll give it a shot tonight trying two versions, thanks again Rbob, i'll let you know how it goes.
Got it to work!!! However, a lot of the values are not reading correctly, I always have IAC steps 0-1, took it around the block and my MPH never ran over 6 and sometimes go -1, TPS never moves, a lot doesn't work, Battery voltage and RPM's might be correct (*** I hope RPM's are correct because it says im idling at 800 if thats the case its only my tach that is off) what other values could there be?
Also, after about 5min running it will lock up my laptop. I really hope that RPM reading is correct, I gave it gas and it would rise, it seems my tach is off a few hundered rpm if that is the case, anyways, give me a holler Rbob.
Originally posted by pasky Also, after about 5min running it will lock up my laptop. I really hope that RPM reading is correct, I gave it gas and it would rise, it seems my tach is off a few hundered rpm if that is the case, anyways, give me a holler Rbob.
OK RBob, got a question for you, it seems my ECM loves to throw out the final byte BB, however Craig's software is looking for 64, know what this could be?
Originally posted by pasky OK RBob, got a question for you, it seems my ECM loves to throw out the final byte BB, however Craig's software is looking for 64, know what this could be?
The final byte of any data packet will be the checksum byte (or as GM puts it: the sum check).
As for a packet with the checksum byte of BB I'd say you are seeing the normal chatter packets (F0 55 BB).
To request a data packet send: F0 56 01 B9
The B9 is that packets checksum, so if Craig's software does the checksum for you don't send that.
From the A148 doc these are the request & data stream that you'll be doing:
Code:
; MODE 1 (TRANSMIT FIXED DATA STREAM)
; ALDL REQUEST:
; - MESSAGE ID = $F0
; - MESSAGE LENGTH = $56
; - MODE = $01
; - SUM CHECK
;
; THE ECM WILL RESPOND WITH THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE:
; - MESSAGE ID = $F0
; - MESSAGE LENGTH = $95
; - MODE = $01
; - DATA BYTE 1
; .
; .
; - DATA BYTE 63
; - SUM CHECK
One thing that can be confusing is that any data you send to the ECM will be echo'd back to the laptop. This is because of the bi-directional interface.
Was looking at craig's software and yes he does calculate the checksums so need to change the final byte, however, he doesn't call them message length and ID.
'regbyte' is message ID,
'msgsize' would be mode?
What is 'basebyte'?
We have the same ECUs has 90-92 TPI cars, however that doesn't make the scanner software compatible due to different headers, etc. If you get something working, sweet!
for the TPI cars, I've read you have to use the resistor between A -> B on the ALDL... but my ECM was spitting out all sorts of info... just the program had no idea what to do with it all...
and I don't have a wire going to B at all...
yeah I'll let you know if I get something working... I'd probably donate $30 to the author if I got it working...
That is for MAF TPI cars, and not all of them always. 90-92s use different pins then earlier ones, but it is the same as the V-8 of the same year, IIRC.
"Run a wire/hairpin from Pin 6 to Pin 12 with the ignition off (although on later cars it should be from Pin 5 to Pin 6) "
So that holds true for both V-8 and V-6, at least for my 88, 89, 90, and 91. The 88 is the one that uses 6 and 12, and my 90 and 91 use 5 and 6. 88 V-8, 89 V-6, 90 V-6, 91 V-8
Arg, you are correct! Sheesh, I cannot remember which ones it uses for the ALDL connector. I remember that the ground is the same, but the power is different. It has been too long since I've done this stuff...
The pins in question are A and B... and a 10k resistor is not required to put the '730 into aldl mode. That can be handled entirely by the software. TunerPro will talk, it's just a question of the definition of each byte of the packet being accurate. That's easily fixed if someone's bothering to use the software.
ScrapMaker, can you please exercise *a little* more restraint in ressurecting so many deceased threads on the same topic? I'm gonna go bury half of 'em now
__________________
'99 Trans Am LS1/T56, Ram Air (Daily Driver)
'06 Suzuki GSX-R 750 '86 Camaro Turbocharged/Intercooled 2.8l (TOAST) MPFI/T5, 2-bar/749/$58, 3.4 on stand in prep.
'00 Camaro 3800-II/T5, 195k mi (SOLD), '02 Yamaha YZF-R6 (SOLD), '99 Suzuki SV-650 (SOLD), '88 Camaro LO3/700R4, 320k mi (SOLD)
but I got the cable to work PERFECTLY with my 1990 3.1 !!!
it's friggin amazing!
now I just have to figure out why my car pings...
is anyone fluent in scantool?
can someone look at my datalog and tell me why when I actually take off, I start pinging like crazy.... I was sitting there for a few minutes, and you can watch my temps rise... but a car shouldn't ping no matter what, right? i was like a constant drum roll of pinging... but it only registered like 3 pings during that time period...
the o2 sensor drops down way low.. I wonder what is wrong...
First thing dont worry about the o2 voltage unless you get a widband.
Second of all a 15 year old car will tend to detonate at"wide open throttle, 218* and at 3500 rpm and more than likely you are running 89 octane.
Dont worry to much about the "pinging" (detonation) as long as its not just off the charts. A car is going to detonate. Thats the reason they have a 3200hz knock sensor. When the knock sensor detects the detonation thats when the knock retartd comes into play. Thats why your are getting .33-3.0 degrees retard.
Although your blm's are showing some lean conditions at a few points.
As far as the dos-based programs you cant run them from any windows OS. Your have to boot to dos and exe from there.
well the weird part is.... my engine is only 3 years old... pretty much all new sensors except the knock sensor...
my car tends to ping when it's under load more than at WOT... for example, if I have the TCC engaged, and I try to go up a hill and it stays engaged the whole time, sometimes I can hear over 30 'knocks' in a 10 second period....
I normally stop it before anything that severe happens... and I deliver on the weekends, and my car idles around a lot, and if I don't leave my fan running the whole time my car is on... I get some pretty bad pinging...
a ping or two at WOT doesn't bother me, it's the pinging at like 2,000 rpm under load that bothers me...
I guess I should go out and try and record a good datalog that shows this information...
also, can I use ECM852 or AldlMonitor on my 1990? if so, would I use that same .ads file that I have for TunerPro RT? or does each program have it's own standard for ECM readings?
I like tunerpro, but I wish I could see a more graphical display when I'm playing back... like the ability to have several sensors on a time-based graph playback...
also I noticed that my o2 sensor kept turning red in TunerPro, does that mean it's going out of normal range? it seems to go to one extreme or the other sometimes...
also, on another run I did later, my TPS sensor didn't seem to match my pedal movements...
Tunerpro is about the most graphical software that i know of. ECM852 and ALDLmon is dos-based and not really graphical at all, but yes it should work with your car.
The 2 programs afore mentioned dont use a .ads. Ecm852 you have to set it up for your car. If you try and use it let me know and i will explain on how to use it. You have to boot to DOS though.
Before i recommend anything get me a good datalogg with the detonation that you are getting.
Thought I'd chime in and let you know that you should download the latest version of TunerPro if you haven't already. Most of your requests have been realized.
Also, try to avoid posting local version of TunerPro on your personal site. The (only) reason behind this request is to avoid people downloading outdated versions of the software. I update it often!
Mark
__________________ '89 TA - 5.7 TPI, T5-WC, 3.08 Posi, Protopline Lightning Aluminum Heads, Pro Mag. roller rockers, Hooker 2055 headers and y-pipe (coated), ZZ4 cam, SLP runners, Spohn suspension and chassis
Originally posted by AmorgetRS If I recall correctly
"Run a wire/hairpin from Pin 6 to Pin 12 with the ignition off (although on later cars it should be from Pin 5 to Pin 6) "
So that holds true for both V-8 and V-6, at least for my 88, 89, 90, and 91. The 88 is the one that uses 6 and 12, and my 90 and 91 use 5 and 6. 88 V-8, 89 V-6, 90 V-6, 91 V-8
So I won't be using the Inspiron at -all-... not an option. 
I was going to get a $100 laptop off of eBay, but if I can recompile the program in DOS, all the more better... 
The A148 stream is the correct one. 
