V6Discussion and questions about the base carbureted or MPFI V6's and the rare SFI Turbo V6.
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Well, I thought this up while replying to another post. I think it would be nice for the 60* community to have a cut and dried database for potential modifications and their gains. Using the search feature is extremely troublesome, and takes many hours to find pertinent data. So, for those who have done ENGINE, DRIVETRAIN and SUSPENSION mods, this would be a nice place to elaborate on their performance benifits for our brethren. Feel free to get as technical as you like (I dunno why there hasn't been a post like this yet...or has there..?) Techsmurf, if this header starts to accumulate good data, I vote for a sticky .
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__________________ -----Sporting the 50th (?) 3.4 powered thirdgen---- "I don't hate imports, I hate Honda for making the civic out to be a "sport" car...."
OK! Now, for a semi-decent answer to a common question on a few minds: What effects will hedders have on my times/speed?
I installed a set of longtube hedders (that aren't made anymore), I gained a tenth in the 1/8th mile and almost 3 mph. The difference was under 2 COMPLETELY different weather conditions. The previous 1/8 mile of 10.75 was with 45 degree weather (70% humidity) the Post-Hedder time was 10.65 with 90+degree weather and 90% humidity. Note that the second set of runs was under poor traction as well (out of 3 runs). First set of runs consisted of 9 runs.
Alright well you asked for it Just jokin havn't done alot to my 87 bird but i'm only 17 so.........
I've got A Custom CAI as do most and I could deffintly tell a diffrence in pick up, at first I used a cheap AZ filter but still could tell a diffrence compared to stock then I purchased a K&N and again felt a diffrence. I strongly recommend the CAI. I do tho recommend just buying a K&N right away and not wasting the money on a no name brand.
I did remove my screen as some say not to do and some say it doesn't matter. The only diffrence I could tell was a louder sucking sound (turbo sound) if that helps any. I wouldn't recommend the screen removel. But again I didn't notice any disadvantage.
Not sure if either of these are correct for this topic but I'll try it.
I installed diffrent Speedo on my car I'm not sure which year it's from I've asked and people still dont know I'll post a pic below, but It was relativly easy with the help here from the site and the great all mighty SEARCH button. I dont have a tripometer on my car and this Speedo was made for one so I just used some White CLoth tape and taped the back side the diffrence in lighting is amazing the new speedo shines so much brighter it's made out of some type of plastic it's not metal or whatever like my stock one. Also the holes were a lil off so I just drilled new ones and taped off the old ones with black electrical tape. Look close you can see
Also am in the progress of Installing a 1996 Auto Console. I dont recommend this type to anyone unless your wanting a challenge. I've read many times that a manual console is easier toinstall but that was after I had bought the Auto one, my fault on that but if you plan on doing this mod I would deffintly get a manual one and not even consider a Auto one.
I pulled the pos v6 and dropped in a v8 Gained weight, hp and tq and dropped seconds!
Sorry had to say it
Seriously, When i had my v6 I did a few things that seemed to help a little, Syth oil,trans fluid. took out the stock air filter can and put a cone type air filter on the end of the mas. Cat was already gutted. Old coil died fast, i replaced it with a 88 mustang 5.0 coil (just because i had it laying around) . blocked off the egr. Port and polished the plenums and manifold during the head gasket replacemnt. removed the evap can, (although i dont think removing it gained anything).
TomPs TuneUp + Timing Chain - went from a 17.8 to a 17.4 - Great Improvement
Gutted the cat - a little improvement
Straightpiped the cat - decent improvement
16x8" with 245/50/16s vs 15" 215/65/15s - MAJOR FUN IMPROVEMENT!
MSD Coil - Actually felt smoother in the upper RPM range!
2.8 to a 3.1 + cam + light P&P on the heads - very nice improvement - massive torque improvement, below 3000 rpm.
Originally posted by HULK ...I did remove my screen as some say not to do and some say it doesn't matter. The only diffrence I could tell was a louder sucking sound (turbo sound) if that helps any. I wouldn't recommend the screen removel. But again I didn't notice any disadvantage...
If this is referring to MAF screen, I would recommend leaving it there. It doesn't really restrict airflow, and it's meant to straighten the air. If you remove it, the MAF my read incorrectly.
Yes I was reffering to the MAF screen, I dont recommend doing it but again didn't notice any diffrence and still havn't even after 5 months, so if you want to try it go for it I just think it's pointless unless you want a more sucking sound out of your intake.
Having taken Redraif's sick 2.8 from a painfully slow 20 second 1/4 mile (coding, exhaust leaks, and other issues) into the mid 16s (with a trans that wouldn't upshift to 3rd, and still haven't done a custom chip yet), I'll give my opinion on all the performance mods we've done.
1)3.4 swap...by far the best money spent (about $600)
2) cam (about 220 duration, .470 lift)/mild porting of the heads... definite improvement, worth doing
3) Ram air (was done more for appearance with RA hood)..probably not as good as the homebuilt CAI she had on before, worth nothing
4) headers...she has the PF&E ones, without EGR or AIR...hate to say, no gain, but this might be due in part to the larger 3.4 and the greater volume of exhaust from the cam
5) distributor rebuild/shimming...very good improvement for little cash
6) 2800 stall...great upgrade
7) Trans Go shift kit...makes car feel far more responsive
8) 3.73 gears...work well with our combo
9) exhaust cutout...12hp gain at the wheels! this is partly due to the horrible crimp-bent system on the car, but I wasn't expecting any gain
10) cat back exhaust...a good mandrel bent system is critical, esp considering this engines lousy exhaust flow
I'll add more later if I think of any...
__________________ 1981 Corvette LSX/T56 Project
1987 Trans Am
1985 Trans Am
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1 - Sold 8/12/09
the reason you didnt pick up anything with the headers was most likely due to the fact that the car is not tunned properly. id bet with tunning and the headers it would fly. if you guys wheel that thing to detriot ill take care of you on a chip.
I'll tell you what I really notice that HURTS performance- Is when I drive this car with someone else in it. I myself weight 230lbs. I get my wife in it with me (shhhhh, but shes aprox 165lbs-shes 6ft) and I get my 12yr old daughter in the back seat (aprox 100lbs-she's already 5ft+) and the car will loose aprox what feels like 2 seconds 0-60 with the extra 250 or so lbs from the passengers. Major difference.
Its probably more like 300 to 350lb extra with the two of them in it- I'm forgetting about all the crap they tote around in the rear storage area when we take this car for a family outing.
Powermax 2030 cam with 1.52 rockers...sadly I didn't notice much of a difference (SOTP), and that was compared to an engine that had 6 different compression readings with the lowest one being 12psi
Underdrive pulley: I felt like I had a quicker throttle response, but pretty much in my experience, it is more trouble than its worth
Originally posted by Damien00677 Powermax 2030 cam with 1.52 rockers...sadly I didn't notice much of a difference (SOTP), and that was compared to an engine that had 6 different compression readings with the lowest one being 12psi
Underdrive pulley: I felt like I had a quicker throttle response, but pretty much in my experience, it is more trouble than its worth
OUCh! That's what I'd call a dead cylinder! 12 psi!!!
I have to agree with statements regarding improvements from sway bars, bushings, and a steering brace. I just replaced my from 30mm and rear 18mm stock sway bars with 34mm front and 23mm rear bars with poly-graphite bushings and endlinks. When I installed the front bar, I also installed a TDS Steering Brace. The difference in handling was very noticeable.
Note that if you have a 2.8L V6 car, the steering brace will not simply bolt into place without crushing the radiator hose where it comes out of the radiator. I removed the two bolts holding the lower left radiator fan mount so that the cradle holding the radiator hose was free to move towards the radiator. (The cradle and the bottom fan mounts are all on piece.) This allowed the hose to move forward some and the steering brace to fit. I placed some rubber sections from an old hose between the radiator hose and the steering brace where they contact (there will still be some contact, but no crimping/crushing of the hose) to eliminate an chance of wear on the hose. I also had to use a zip tie to hold the section of hose near the water pump a little higher so it would not rub on arm coming out of the steering box. Eventually, I will disconnect the hose and trim off some of the water pump end so it will sit higher.
Other things that I have done to the car:
-MSD Blaster GM coil
-MSD Superconductor 8.5mm wires
-Holley Ignition Control Module (replaces stock module in distributor)
I had already done a full tune-up using the stock coil, ICM, and 7mm wires before I replaced the above components. After placing these on the car, the only thing that was really noticeable to me was that the throttle seemed a little more responsive, and the engine would rev faster. I do think the coil and wires are a good thing to do since most aftermarket 8mm wires have way less resistance than 7mm wires. Also aftermarket coils like the MSD and Hypertech output more voltage. Combine the low resistance wires and higher output coil, you should get a stronger spark.
-KYB GR-2 front struts
-KYB Gas-A-Just rear shocks
My car had the factory shocks and struts on it last summer and it was time for new ones. I searched around the forums and read a lot of recommendations. A set of Bilstien shocks and struts would have been nice, but I didn't feel like spending $500+ for all four. Koni also makes some top notch stuff, but once again, cost was high. I finally settled on (as have many others on the forums it seems) the KYB GR-2 struts and Gas-A-Just shocks after reading a lot of recommendations and results. I have been very happy with these, and they made a major improvement in handling. (Of course, any new shocks and struts would have helped...)
Originally posted by funstick the reason you didnt pick up anything with the headers was most likely due to the fact that the car is not tunned properly. id bet with tunning and the headers it would fly. if you guys wheel that thing to detriot ill take care of you on a chip.
Sean out. you know how to get ahold of greg.
I agree, thats why I had the disclaimer. Redraif has been busy with other projects lately ,but hopefully soon we'll get it tuned. If Detroit was just a little closer we'd take you up on that! BTW, what kind of gain do you think we could get with tuning? Shoot me a PM, don't want to hijack the thread.
Engine swap: 1995 Camaro 3.4L V-6
SunCoast Ram Air Box
K & N Air Filter
MAF sensor screen removed
Throttle Body coolant bypass
EGR System eliminated
19lb Ford fuel injectors
Holley Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
MSD Dual Connector Coil
Performance distributor cap and rotor button red with brass contacts
Distributor blueprinted (TomP rebuild and shimming)
Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm Wires
AC DELCO Rapid-fire plugs
Reed Cam: TM276/282H12A2 (223/228 w/ 471/480 lift on 112 int C/L is 108)
Comp Cams timing chain set, lifters, & springs
ASP Underdrive crank pulley
Sneaky Pete NOS system (**not used yet, want tuning right!**)
Gasket match ported & polished: Plenum, Runners, Lower intake, & heads.
PF&E 304 stainless headers & y-pipe
Car Sound 2.5 in. high capacity catalytic converter
Flowtech 2.5 in. cutout
2 ¼ in. pipe from the cat back
Flowmaster Muffler w/ dual 2 ¼ in. outlet pipes w/ 4 square tips
160 degree thermostat w/ Hypertech fan switch
TransGo shift kit
Neil Racing 2800 stall converter
3.73 1984 disc brake rear
These mods all took the car from its horrible state of: ***2002:***
1/4 time of:
20.88
and with some repairs
Dyno:
Max Power = 107.8 @ rear wheels (+20%) = 129.36hp @ the fly wheel
Max Torque = 136.6 @ rear wheels (+20%) = 163.92ft-lbs @ the fly wheel
Another track run late 02:
R/T: .922
60’: 2.867
330: 8.592
1/8: 13.268
MPH: 53.04
1000: 17.167
¼: 20.430
MPH: 68.68
***To the current state Spring 2004***
Max Power = 134.1 @ rear wheels (+20%) = 160.92hp @ the fly wheel
Max Torque = 207.4 @ rear wheels (+20%) = 248.88ft-lbs @ the fly wheel
**had nasty traction issues and the car is way heavy
***this with the tranny not shifting into its top gear @ full throttle
Works fine now though!
***Plans for improvement:***
I still feel the cars HP numbers are down due to the lack of air flow. Mandel bent exhaust is a must! Planning for a heftier port on the heads, some milling for a smaller combustion chamber, and a valve job. Planning to go to roller rockers and valves without a dish if possible. Also trying to get a bigger TB and want to extrude-hone the plenum and runners!
And TUNING, TUNING, TUNING!
For the track...lighter rims and some tires with traction!
__________________ "I'm just a girl..." (No Doubt) "Love me or hate me, it's still an obsession. If you love me then Thank you, if you hate me then **** you!" (Lady Sovereign) 1987 Red & Black Firebird: "RAIF" WEBSITE: www.redraif.com (Yes... STILL in pieces from an engine bay paint makeover!) OTHER CARS’ WEBSITES:1982 Trans AM / 1990 Chevy Dually / 1976 Scout II / 1987 Nissan Pulsar / 1984 Indy Fiero Tact- n . Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others, including the ability to speak or act without offending.
Originally posted by HULK I installed diffrent Speedo on my car I'm not sure which year it's from I've asked and people still dont know I'll post a pic below, but It was relativly easy with the help here from the site and the great all mighty SEARCH button.
:hail: I love people that use the search button!! It saves me from retyping stuff!
Quote:
Originally posted by camaro_junkie If this is referring to MAF screen, I would recommend leaving it there. It doesn't really restrict airflow, and it's meant to straighten the air. If you remove it, the MAF my read incorrectly.
100% agreed; when I pulled my screen, I got a code 34 for "low airflow over MAF". I put the screen back in, and the code disappeared.
__________________ -Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)
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